If you are over 40 year old and a rep - You are done in pharmaceuticals

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Anonymous said:
Who are the lucky ones? The ones who are done in pharmaceuticals or the ones who are not?
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Those that are done but got in early enough to benefit from the lucrative years of high salaries, decent bonuses, great benefits, and a sweet pension. Anyone with less than 20 years and under 50 years old is a loser in this industry in the long run.
 




Not just age but timing. I started my investing career in 1992 with a 401K. In only 12 years I made over a million bucks. Why? During that time the Dow went from 3000 to 14,000, with a CAGR of 18%. You do the math. I'm only 46 years old, but with my brilliant timing I can retire comfortably. In fact I'm buying distressed real estate in S. Florida and will make another killing when the housing mkt returns. Even if I don 't it's only discretionary money anyway.
 




Anonymous said:
The reps who decided to stay in the field for 10 -15 years and not advance their careers are done. Not only done in pharmaceuticals, done in any sales job that pays you close to the money you are making. Your laziness and lack of risk will cost you. This is not to be mean, it is reality. So reps from Philadelphia area take note. You know who you are.
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Not all companies are doing this. Pfizer kept a BUNCH of the older Wyeth reps, and Abbott has a lot of older reps too. Its called age discrimination. A 59 y/o Abbott rep won a 15 million dollar judgement for this about 5 years ago. If AZ is doing this, then they will be vulnerable like anyone else.
 




I was in pharma for 12 years and was a rep with BMS, Wyeth and then with AZ. AZ was the biggest mistake I could have ever made, and I realized it the second day of training when everyone else was asking me for help. 9 people were sent home because they failed their test.
I'm not 40 yet. Got in when I was 25 and aggressive in the heyday of the industry. We did it all. Lunches, dinners, football games, charter boat trips, golf. It was a real sales job. Of course, we all had medical backgrounds and sales experience before we could even be considered. I was comfortable, but I was really good- 5 president's club awards with 2 companies, always in the top 10%. I took advantage occasionally- everyone does- but nothing that couldn't be justified. (things like taking leftover food home, or boxing up additional meals that were paid for and people didn't show- once a whole prime rib and 6 lbs. of crab legs) I carried other reps, all of whom were younger than me, only one of which was male.
AZ cut my position 11 months after they hired me. I was caught totally off guard. My counterparts didn't like the fact that I actually went to work and called some of them on it. Oh, and my direct counterpart was screwing our boss. I had no idea, but joking around one day I made a comment to him that made him think I knew, and all of a sudden my life was HELL. Pharma's days are numbered, and the money is less and less every year. Here is what I can tell you I learned...

No one in medical sales will hire a pharma rep, except on the very rarest of occasions. Listen to the advice here. Get an MBA. Save every penny you can. I went to B2B and smashed some sales records, but it was a ton harder than I worked in pharma. It got me into medical sales, though, and now I have a great job. Won't share the company- there are only 30 of us in sales, so can't risk it, but these jobs are out there. I make good money, company car, have very low stress. There are other jobs that make twice what I do, but there's call, stress, etc. I like to see my wife and kids.
If you are any good, unmarried, and in pharma GET OUT NOW. Your best bet is to work as an independent rep or at 100% commission to start. You'll build while you are young and then have your own company or territory on autopilot while you're earning prime money. 350-500K is a realistic number after 4 or 5 years of 90-150K. Count on 2 years just to get to know what you're doing. It will be worth it. Married with kids? If your spouse works and the kids are middle school or older, get your MBA or J.D. on the company and move up. The most important thing is to be very afraid for your future and make your plans NOW for another opportunity. Get on LinkedIn. Put your resume out.
Oh, and of the companies that I have experience with- Wyeth was by far the best, before the layoffs and Pfizer buyout. AZ is a sinking ship. Every one of the people that I keep in contact with from the industry is afraid for their jobs, and rightly so. Some random decision by someone on the east coast can decide your future during a budget meeting. Don't let it take you unexpectedly.
 




Anonymous said:
I was in pharma for 12 years and was a rep with BMS, Wyeth and then with AZ. AZ was the biggest mistake I could have ever made, and I realized it the second day of training when everyone else was asking me for help. 9 people were sent home because they failed their test.
I'm not 40 yet. Got in when I was 25 and aggressive in the heyday of the industry. We did it all. Lunches, dinners, football games, charter boat trips, golf. It was a real sales job. Of course, we all had medical backgrounds and sales experience before we could even be considered. I was comfortable, but I was really good- 5 president's club awards with 2 companies, always in the top 10%. I took advantage occasionally- everyone does- but nothing that couldn't be justified. (things like taking leftover food home, or boxing up additional meals that were paid for and people didn't show- once a whole prime rib and 6 lbs. of crab legs) I carried other reps, all of whom were younger than me, only one of which was male.
AZ cut my position 11 months after they hired me. I was caught totally off guard. My counterparts didn't like the fact that I actually went to work and called some of them on it. Oh, and my direct counterpart was screwing our boss. I had no idea, but joking around one day I made a comment to him that made him think I knew, and all of a sudden my life was HELL. Pharma's days are numbered, and the money is less and less every year. Here is what I can tell you I learned...

No one in medical sales will hire a pharma rep, except on the very rarest of occasions. Listen to the advice here. Get an MBA. Save every penny you can. I went to B2B and smashed some sales records, but it was a ton harder than I worked in pharma. It got me into medical sales, though, and now I have a great job. Won't share the company- there are only 30 of us in sales, so can't risk it, but these jobs are out there. I make good money, company car, have very low stress. There are other jobs that make twice what I do, but there's call, stress, etc. I like to see my wife and kids.
If you are any good, unmarried, and in pharma GET OUT NOW. Your best bet is to work as an independent rep or at 100% commission to start. You'll build while you are young and then have your own company or territory on autopilot while you're earning prime money. 350-500K is a realistic number after 4 or 5 years of 90-150K. Count on 2 years just to get to know what you're doing. It will be worth it. Married with kids? If your spouse works and the kids are middle school or older, get your MBA or J.D. on the company and move up. The most important thing is to be very afraid for your future and make your plans NOW for another opportunity. Get on LinkedIn. Put your resume out.
Oh, and of the companies that I have experience with- Wyeth was by far the best, before the layoffs and Pfizer buyout. AZ is a sinking ship. Every one of the people that I keep in contact with from the industry is afraid for their jobs, and rightly so. Some random decision by someone on the east coast can decide your future during a budget meeting. Don't let it take you unexpectedly.
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Excellent post!!
 




Fire anyone that is a manager of any level that was not a rep for at least five years. You cant manage if you never had a complete understanding of those you manage. And no managing of any TA that you have never sold. ITS THAT DAMN SIMPLE.
 












If you are a rep in the pharmaceutical industry you are done. Do your research and read PHRMA says about pharma and the future or do research on-line. Fact is, regulations and laws in the health care industry prevent and/or will prevent many of the rep's activity. That is why the trend for PharmD's and Clinical Liaison's has begun. It's not a matter of age and not moving up the ladder, it is a matter of careers of the future.
 








Over 50 here and still out hitting it every day. I laugh while you young and stupid ones get cut. Keep on spiking your hair little Back Street Boy's and you idiot Barbies...keep making muffins or what ever, while the offices laugh at you and I am selling.. I left AZ several years ago, to many morons.
 




Rock on to the last poster. I am over 50 too, and I still walk into my first call at 8:00 am. Left this m/orning at 6:30 to be first back. Got to laugh at the Barby and Ken doughnut eaters as they all sent their computers back to get signatures while I actually got to sell something. Once this industry rids itself of these losers, things will improve for the rest of us. I started to get one of their computers and change all the sample quantities and let them explain how they left 5 millions units of whatever dog drug they attempt to sell. Another fun tactic is to swipe the paper signature forms that they leave because they are too lazy to work, and send them in to their company. Seen a few of them disappear after that....
 








Anonymous said:
Over 50 here and still out hitting it every day. I laugh while you young and stupid ones get cut. Keep on spiking your hair little Back Street Boy's and you idiot Barbies...keep making muffins or what ever, while the offices laugh at you and I am selling.. I left AZ several years ago, to many morons.
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Obviously taking a basic English class was not one of them. Old, stupid and pathetic....BWHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
 




Pharma is on very very thin ice look at the job boards many many surg,device and few pharma.
Only will become worse and worse thankful I got the hell out ! Anybody would be smart to take any decent b2b sales job and move on from there !
 




Anonymous said:
Rock on to the last poster. I am over 50 too, and I still walk into my first call at 8:00 am. Left this m/orning at 6:30 to be first back. Got to laugh at the Barby and Ken doughnut eaters as they all sent their computers back to get signatures while I actually got to sell something. Once this industry rids itself of these losers, things will improve for the rest of us. I started to get one of their computers and change all the sample quantities and let them explain how they left 5 millions units of whatever dog drug they attempt to sell. Another fun tactic is to swipe the paper signature forms that they leave because they are too lazy to work, and send them in to their company. Seen a few of them disappear after that....
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You're dreaming. Have a nice fantasy.
 




Anonymous said:
Why would someone post mean and negative things about an older rep? Are you so miserable with your life that posting negative things empowers you. Darling, you really need to get some help. Why would you care? Who cares if that is the case even though it isn't. Older reps are wiser and it doesn't matter what they look like, it doesn't matter how old they are, They are proud and could sell pretty much anything they wanted to sell, if you think they are lazy, think again, they are probably pissed off or working on their home. Remember when we first got the jobs? Well, those were the days they hired talented people -unlike today. We won't go into that. You have to come on the boards are post things to make yourself feel like a bigger person. You will be that age one day my friend and if your smart like us, you will have a back up. All of us do have a backup because we are not stupid you idiot!!!! Now grow up and quit worrrying about other people, just do your job and get a life. Don't even try to respond because we all know your an idiot. Bye bye
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2 true- mid 40's here w/ 11 yrs specialty, a few promotions long the way. Many of us fondly recall how great this job was, for reps and drs. But many of you fools didn't enjoy the "gravy days". Bummer for you! For the arrogant jerks, you clearly do not recognize the value of solid rel'ps we were able to establish and the actual selling we were once able to do. Granted those of us with stellar base salaries for the reduced hours many of us have enjoyed for the past decade will not in the future likely earn nearly as much. But many of my friends were not penny wise and pound foolish. When we go, and so many of us will, we can do so with a lot of money in the bank. We'll also leave with the knowledge that you jerk-offs will not be far behind. And the majority of those left standing will continue to see time stamping, GPS monitoring and 10 hour days- things experienced reps never had to endure! Sure we'll miss the job it once was. But only the ones with poor planning for the inevitable will be truly screwed. Many of us will and can take the opportunity to switch our career paths and find more gratifying opportunities (albeit with lower salaries!). It will not be with companies like Google, nor will it be at the extreme other end-Walmart greeters!

Karma sure is a bitch for the younger, naive smart-asses who talk smack here. For those of us "old timers" with good attitudes and realistic expectations- life will go on.
 




Anonymous said:
2 true- mid 40's here w/ 11 yrs specialty, a few promotions long the way. Many of us fondly recall how great this job was, for reps and drs. But many of you fools didn't enjoy the "gravy days". Bummer for you! For the arrogant jerks, you clearly do not recognize the value of solid rel'ps we were able to establish and the actual selling we were once able to do. Granted those of us with stellar base salaries for the reduced hours many of us have enjoyed for the past decade will not in the future likely earn nearly as much. But many of my friends were not penny wise and pound foolish. When we go, and so many of us will, we can do so with a lot of money in the bank. We'll also leave with the knowledge that you jerk-offs will not be far behind. And the majority of those left standing will continue to see time stamping, GPS monitoring and 10 hour days- things experienced reps never had to endure! Sure we'll miss the job it once was. But only the ones with poor planning for the inevitable will be truly screwed. Many of us will and can take the opportunity to switch our career paths and find more gratifying opportunities (albeit with lower salaries!). It will not be with companies like Google, nor will it be at the extreme other end-Walmart greeters!

Karma sure is a bitch for the younger, naive smart-asses who talk smack here. For those of us "old timers" with good attitudes and realistic expectations- life will go on.
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Yeah you sound like you've really got your shit together there buddy. It's all about the bucks, huh? The real Kharma that's gonna get you is when the dollars you have dedicated your lifetime to amassing become worthless by design of the current US government.

They have to do it, there's no other way out of the economic mess we're in other than inflating the currency so that everybody's house is worth what it used to be, in dollars. Too bad that just means that all of those bucks you've saved up will get a huge haircut, unless you know what you're doing and are willing to take the risks necessary to protect the value they currently represent. It's not going to be long before that changes big time.
 




Anonymous said:
Yeah you sound like you've really got your shit together there buddy. It's all about the bucks, huh? The real Kharma that's gonna get you is when the dollars you have dedicated your lifetime to amassing become worthless by design of the current US government.

They have to do it, there's no other way out of the economic mess we're in other than inflating the currency so that everybody's house is worth what it used to be, in dollars. Too bad that just means that all of those bucks you've saved up will get a huge haircut, unless you know what you're doing and are willing to take the risks necessary to protect the value they currently represent. It's not going to be long before that changes big time.
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Actually, the bucks represent a small part of my overall message. Thank heavens I don't have all mine depending on the pharma basket and my sad 401k. But still, you've missed the point. Being smug about being young is one thing. Being a know-it-all smart ass is the other. And it's painfully obvious that being an over 40 rep is not ideal. However being a pharma rep at this point in time is the bigger problem for any and all.

Get it?
 




I got displaced at AZ when I was 42, 2 years ago. I too had a life of 11-3 every day. I often did lunch for 2 hours and put minimal effort into the job. During this time, I had a PT job as a bartender outside of the territory. I would not be home sometimes till 2am but I didnt need to be out in territory till 10am anyway. I made lots of tips working at a bar. AZ gave me benefits. I would sometimes wake and do a conference call then go back to bed. I would always have my A game for my DSM who almost always cancled or did a half day... It was the perfect compliment. I cant see AZ now NOT knowing that the average rep and DSM is doing part time work. The DM's dont really keep a close eye on the reps. They really dont care. They want the numbers but they TOO want to be home at 3:45 pm to see the kids. Its a big facade. I can honestly say I took major advantage of az but had a nice 15 year job there. Lots of great meals. Now, in mid 40's it time to grow up and get a job and start working. Thats my life at AZ story !
 




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