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How long to get fired?

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Anonymous

Guest
One of my counterparts turned me in for fake calls. To my DM. My DM in turn is having a meeting with me and the HR Director via a teleconference. This investigation has been going on for 3 weeks now. Fortunately for me nothing can be proven as all the docs were in that day that I faked calls. It's coming down to a matter of who do thy believe.

A. First question do you think they will fire me when I meet with them even though they cannot prove anything?

B. If they were gonna fire me would they have done it by now? As opposed to dragging the process?

Sorry, but I am just looking for experiences from you fellow reps. I'm trying to feel better as I am very worried. Yes I did fake calls but who doesn't right?
 






Anonymous said:
One of my counterparts turned me in for fake calls. To my DM. My DM in turn is having a meeting with me and the HR Director via a teleconference. This investigation has been going on for 3 weeks now. Fortunately for me nothing can be proven as all the docs were in that day that I faked calls. It's coming down to a matter of who do thy believe.

A. First question do you think they will fire me when I meet with them even though they cannot prove anything?

B. If they were gonna fire me would they have done it by now? As opposed to dragging the process?

Sorry, but I am just looking for experiences from you fellow reps. I'm trying to feel better as I am very worried. Yes I did fake calls but who doesn't right?
Click to expand...
If they show the docs their sigs and they do not recognize them as their own, you will be gone in a hurry. IF not, several things could happen: 1) you have been a rep in good standing with no other problems, they could just let it drop, 2) if you have had other problems, they could put you on record with sample accountablity and watch you like a hawk for a while, 3) they could fire you on general principles rather than go to the time and trouble to investigate you. I would wish you luck, but you have admitted you do not deserve it. And, NO, not everyone does it.
 






You must have faked a lot of calls for your counterpart to turn you in.

Did you forge the doc signatures? That in itself is a huge thing -- like against the law.

I would be more worried if my DM showed up with another DM for a ride along.

And I'd really watch myself around the counterpart. It could also be the offices complained they only see her/him and not you. Quit goldbricking and work. There are lots of folks who would want your job.
 






Anonymous said:
One of my counterparts turned me in for fake calls. To my DM. My DM in turn is having a meeting with me and the HR Director via a teleconference. This investigation has been going on for 3 weeks now. Fortunately for me nothing can be proven as all the docs were in that day that I faked calls. It's coming down to a matter of who do thy believe.

A. First question do you think they will fire me when I meet with them even though they cannot prove anything?

B. If they were gonna fire me would they have done it by now? As opposed to dragging the process?

Sorry, but I am just looking for experiences from you fellow reps. I'm trying to feel better as I am very worried. Yes I did fake calls but who doesn't right?
Click to expand...

If you were in the office and left material and put it as a call and the office knows you tried to see the doctor, I really do not see a problem. However, obviously, something is up since your counterpart is pissed and your DM is going to see you over it with HR involved. That is never a good thing. I would expect at the very least some type of formal write up. However, if it really is faking calls, you are gone. HR only gets involved if there is about to be a formal process. Sorry.
 






I assume these are F2F calls since no one is stupid enough to fake signatures. Simply say you made the calls. Then it's on them to find proof you didn't, and they can't fire without definite proof. If counterpart is using sign in sheets as evidence, say you were distracted and chatting it up with staff and forgot to sign in. Do not admit anything. Who doesn't fake calls? It's a stupid job.

After that, watch your ass. I knew someone whose DM was gunning to get her fired. He even called offices to see if she'd been there. There were several of these teleconferences before he finally got her. I should mention she was a hard worker and had a huge territory but the DM had issues.
 






Anonymous said:
no one is stupid enough to fake signatures. wanna bet?

 Then it's on them to find proof you didn't, and they can't fire without definite proof. A company can get rid of you for any reason they want --

If counterpart is using sign in sheets as evidence, say you were distracted and chatting it up with staff and forgot to sign in. Do not admit anything.

Excellent advice. Or just say the sheet wasn't out for you to sign. The receptionist said she'd put your name on the list.

 Who doesn't fake calls? It's a stupid job.

There are a lot of folks who don't fake calls. But then again, there are a lot of folks who don't have to worry about it.

After that, watch your ass. I knew someone whose DM was gunning to get her fired. He even called offices to see if she'd been there. There were several of these teleconferences before he finally got her. I should mention she was a hard worker and had a huge territory but the DM had issues.
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This is an excellent post.
 


















Here is how it goes for fake calls in order of dishonorable behavior including illegal behavior.
Worst: Faking a signature or adding HCPs to a lunch or "speaker" program - you are fired if caught, maybe worse.
Next: Faking your day and not really going anywhere. You are fired if caught sitting at the beach faking calls. If I were your counterpart, I'd be pissed. They give us enough time off this type of behavior should never be OK.
Next: Sitting in the parking lot and never going into the building type of call. Ok, we all get sick of the job and often know before we even walk through the door that no one will see us. Makes no difference. You have to get your ass out of the car and GO into the building and TRY to see someone. You have to leave something and have some kind of conversation or ask for an appointment, a lunch, anything for it to be a call.
Finally: Padding your call list by driving by a clinic or pharmacy and actually saying you stopped - could get fired but might be able to say they forgot you were there if all your other calls that day were good. However, I have seen people fired over one bad call record. Depends on how your boss feels about you.

So, what happened?
 






Anonymous said:
One of my counterparts turned me in for fake calls. To my DM. My DM in turn is having a meeting with me and the HR Director via a teleconference. This investigation has been going on for 3 weeks now. Fortunately for me nothing can be proven as all the docs were in that day that I faked calls. It's coming down to a matter of who do thy believe.

A. First question do you think they will fire me when I meet with them even though they cannot prove anything? If they cannot PROVE you faked calls, the info from your co-rep is just hearsay. They can question you about why you were reported. If you are top of the heap in sales,increases, etc and all paperwork in apple pie order you are probably OK. If you have other problems, they may feel this is just one more black mark and either put you on 30/60/90/ day improvement schedule or let you go.

B. If they were gonna fire me would they have done it by now? As opposed to dragging the process? If they are researching sig matchups, calls vs sample ratios, etc, it takes a while. They may be talking to docs in question about hwo often you seen them, they may be talking to other reps, etc about your observed behavior, they may be gathering more information from the rep who turned you in to see if the information is accurate or if that persona has a persona vendetta of some sort toward you. All this shit takes time as does consulting with HR on whether to lay you off and allow unemployment to get rid of you and avoid future problems, etc, etc. Takes time.

Sorry, but I am just looking for experiences from you fellow reps. I'm trying to feel better as I am very worried. Yes I did fake calls but who doesn't right?
Click to expand...

See above in purple
 






Pharma doesn't pay enough to get caught up in this conspiracy stuff. Go sell a tangible product. You either sell or you don't. If you can handle a black and white job, get out of pharma.

I did and I don't have any more days where before a call I would sigh and put my head on the steering wheel for 5 minutes.
 


















I'm not the OP but to fake calls or whatever you rep. folks do is unethical. The OP YOU deserve to be fired. I hope it is soon. My take is this is a distraction. Don't worry as Obama will make sure that you will get healthcare and all sorts of benefits. Make sure as vote.
 






Anonymous said:
I'm not the OP but to fake calls or whatever you rep. folks do is unethical. The OP YOU deserve to be fired. I hope it is soon. My take is this is a distraction. Don't worry as Obama will make sure that you will get healthcare and all sorts of benefits. Make sure as vote.
Click to expand...

You are a clueless twit who obviously got rejected by pharma - go figure, you cannot even compose one line without six spelling, punctuation and sentence structure errors. Do not bother to comment on that which you do not know. You go out there and try and see if you can see five to six doctors a day at various clinics and get five minutes of their time to talk about an old or new drug. The requirements of the job are completely unrealistic in this current environment and that IS the problem. Most reps do bust their butt to work in rain, snow, 110-120 degree heat, eight to ten hours days with administrative work at night and on the weekends. So, STFU
 






Anonymous said:
You are a clueless twit who obviously got rejected by pharma - go figure, you cannot even compose one line without six spelling, punctuation and sentence structure errors. Do not bother to comment on that which you do not know. You go out there and try and see if you can see five to six doctors a day at various clinics and get five minutes of their time to talk about an old or new drug. The requirements of the job are completely unrealistic in this current environment and that IS the problem. Most reps do bust their butt to work in rain, snow, 110-120 degree heat, eight to ten hours days with administrative work at night and on the weekends. So, STFU
Click to expand...

Ouch! Settle down young one. Guess what I'm one of those HCPs that you call on. I think it is funny that you are worried about my "...grammar and sentence structure errors" - OMG! You all wonder why we don't want to see you in the office. I worked a 14 hour day and frequently dictate in the car. I apologize sincerely if my grammar/spelling was incorrect. Don't worry you'll be fired and deserve it! Sorry, but it is the truth - faking calls is unethical and you deserve harsh treatment. But, like I said don't worry and be happy great things will happen to you.
 






Anonymous said:
Ouch! Settle down young one. Guess what I'm one of those HCPs that you call on. I think it is funny that you are worried about my "...grammar and sentence structure errors" - OMG! You all wonder why we don't want to see you in the office. I worked a 14 hour day and frequently dictate in the car. I apologize sincerely if my grammar/spelling was incorrect. Don't worry you'll be fired and deserve it! Sorry, but it is the truth - faking calls is unethical and you deserve harsh treatment. But, like I said don't worry and be happy great things will happen to you.
Click to expand...

Well, if you see reps at all, you are rare. Our dipshit managers think that access is like it was 20 years ago or that a "good" rep can always get time. I walk into offices that are always wall to wall patients. They do not have but one minute to sign for samples. That is a call. I may not have been able to engage in a 5 minute conversation but it is still a call. If I see the practitioner and am told at the front desk that Dr. Smith does not have time and I drove for two fucking hours and won't be back until my route cycles for three weeks and I leave stuff for Dr. Smith that is a call. Why? It is a call because I am REQUIRED to call on Dr. Smith 1.75 times per month and if I do not (and have 20 Dr. Smith days), I will get fired. Like I said, the job is tough enough without these routing requirements that some bean counter throws down on us. I find you cruel and still clueless. Most reps that are left in the field are given ridiculously large territories, goals and expectations - mostly out of their control and expected to just do it. That, combined with several hours (just like you) of paperwork/computer work each and every week. While you are inside your comfortable air conditioned office, we are out there in 110 degree heat or sometimes subzero winters driving trying to get maybe 2 minutes to go over a new study, dosing, cost/formulary or competitive information. Obviously, if some idiot rep is sitting on the beach and "faking" - truly faking - calls, they do deserve to get fired.
 












Anonymous said:
Ouch! Settle down young one. Guess what I'm one of those HCPs that you call on. I think it is funny that you are worried about my "...grammar and sentence structure errors" - OMG! You all wonder why we don't want to see you in the office. I worked a 14 hour day and frequently dictate in the car. I apologize sincerely if my grammar/spelling was incorrect. Don't worry you'll be fired and deserve it! Sorry, but it is the truth - faking calls is unethical and you deserve harsh treatment. But, like I said don't worry and be happy great things will happen to you.
Click to expand...

Why are you quoting someting that wasn't said? "...grammar and sentence structure errors"

HCP my ass
 






Original BOOGER said:
Always give the company what they ask for. Whatever it takes. The industry became a game YEARS ago.....
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That is correct.
And those who learn how to play the game and deliver good numbers will makes lots of money, be happy at what they are doing, and have plenty of free time in their personal life. You give the company and especially your manager what they want so they look good. That includes hitting call reach and frequency by including "service call" type presentations. That's the only way to make numbers in offices with multiple docs where you can only get one sig for samples. Everyone does it or they will get questioned on it.
Those who don't learn come here and whine and say that pharma sales isn't "real" sales.
 






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