How do those of you in your 40s and up do it?

[Anonymous]

Not only do you lie about the OP making multiple posts, but you offer NOTHING to the discussion.

You are such a silly person, you belong in pharma because you can't do anything else.

That is really what it comes down to imo, as the reason why people stay in pharma. That is, they have no clue how to make money outside of the industry, by starting a business or learning how to invest properly (how many pharma reps do you know that live above their means? I know many, for example).

It is left for people like you, you dummy poster, that thinks people actually "cut it" in pharma.

Nobody cuts it in pharma, they just endure the BS. I went through 3 training programs from top companies (and Pfizer was one of them, considered the best and most difficult training program in the industry), so don't lecture me on "I couldn't cut it".

You are such a silly person, and a liar.

Do you think we just fell off the turnip truck? We know you are the OP and the same one making all those stupid posts agreeing with yourself.

Do you really think people would believe that a large number of former pharma reps would just happen to show up on this one thread in a matter of 24 hours, when this particular portion of the board (industry veterans) only gets a few posts a week on average?

You really aren't that bright, are you.

Every once in awhile, we see people like you that pop up on various parts of the board telling us how you got out and have such a great career and how those of us still here must be brainwashed, micromanaged, etc, etc. The fact is that we see people like you go every day. You just couldn't measure up and got forced out. After pharma, people like you struggle to find anything close to the compensation level of pharma and typically have to settle for a dead end job, that requires little effort and a much smaller income to match. As a result, people like you long for the old pharma days and then post garbage like your post hoping to make themselves feel better, when deep down inside, they feel like a big failure.

Don't worry about us. We are obviously all doing fine and enjoying the good life while you continue to struggle.

Deal with it, loser.

 

[Anonymous]

It looks like the OP had his a$$ handed to him.

 

[Anonymous]

Ya, that person is nuts.

And I think it has to do with the toxic environment that you mention about pharma and how that toxic environment changes people.

Its takes time for people to come out of it.

And I think (I know, but not 100 percent sure) that is why pharma companies today will ALWAYS hire a recent college grad with a good GPA over someone with experience. Look at the people that are getting these jobs and that stay in it: you have the recent college grads or those that have not sold anything outside of pharma.

They brainwash these people with "we focus on the patients and their health", when that is BS. Look at the anti-depressants out there. Are they really helping?

See, you can convince a recent college grad that these drugs are great because they are too young to think for themselves, and they want the company car and good money to pay off their student loans. Its easy to get these youngsters to buy into that.

But, you can't do that to a person in their 40s and up, because they see the light. HOwever, if they were also hired out of college and are used to the good money and lifestyle, etc, then they will lie to themselves and say "these drugs are good", and my job is a good job, and I am not brainwashed...

and worse, that I am just providing a business service, like that dummy said earlier.

There are a lot of rich pharma employees out there, but one thing I do notice about them is that most of them are angry and not happy people.

They are mostly in love with money, and can't think for themselves.

great posting and very true...Looking back on my pharma "career" I realize I had to live in total denial and try and talk myself into thinking what I was doing was right, and had a purpose....

Bottom line is pharma is the most dishonest, corrupt industry around, filled with the most nitwits, dullards and dimwits you could imagine...

 

[Anonymous]

great posting and very true...Looking back on my pharma "career" I realize I had to live in total denial and try and talk myself into thinking what I was doing was right, and had a purpose....

Bottom line is pharma is the most dishonest, corrupt industry around, filled with the most nitwits, dullards and dimwits you could imagine...

Agreeing to your post over and over again, still doesn't fool anyone. I am sure you feel that you recovered your dignity once you put on that paper hat and started flipping the burgers.

 

[Anonymous]

I figure by age 40, the idea of being brainwashed and following corporate orders goes out the window, and life and job satisfaction is more important than making money

My question is how do those of you into your 40s and up, still keep a straight face with this job?

Is the mony that important to you?

I did this for about ten years, out of college, and left in my early 30s, because I was not learning anymore, and I finally saw this industry for what it really was: a fraud. Add the micromanagement, and silly doctors, and it was just too much to handle for my mental wel being.

I have been running my own business the last five years, and it does pay about the same. I just work harder, but I don't have to put up with the corporate game. The only advantage of pharma, was that I had less accountability in pharma.

Not trying to pick on anyone here, but I just want to get an idea of how you put up with it all, and my guess was that the money is just too good, but I think there is more to it than just the money, right?

I made such a great post......oops, I mean, you made such a great post, OP. I can't believe nobody believes that I am not someone else. I will make a few more posts.....oops, I mean I am sure a few more people will make some more posts on this thread agreeing some more with my post......oops, I mean your post.

 

[Anonymous]

I made such a great post......oops, I mean, you made such a great post, OP. I can't believe nobody believes that I am not someone else. I will make a few more posts.....oops, I mean I am sure a few more people will make some more posts on this thread agreeing some more with my post......oops, I mean your post.

hey meathead,

I will swear on 10,000 bibles that I am not responding to my own posts, and I am a Christian...

so buzz off.

Stop lying to yourself. You know pharma is a joke. We all do. The joke is on you, because you know that you don't have any other way to make money, other than telling lies to silly doctors about your drugs that don't help people.

amazing how dene you are.

 

[Anonymous]

hey meathead,

I will swear on 10,000 bibles that I am not responding to my own posts, and I am a Christian...

so buzz off.

Stop lying to yourself. You know pharma is a joke. We all do. The joke is on you, because you know that you don't have any other way to make money, other than telling lies to silly doctors about your drugs that don't help people.

amazing how dene you are.

Just another clue, moron. If you don't want people to think it is you responding to your own posts, stop using some of the same phrases/wording. You give yourself away too easy.

I know it is hard for you to know that you have been such a failure and got kicked out of the industry. But it is not our fault that you couldn't succeed.

 

[Anonymous]

Just another clue, moron. If you don't want people to think it is you responding to your own posts, stop using some of the same phrases/wording. You give yourself away too easy.

I know it is hard for you to know that you have been such a failure and got kicked out of the industry. But it is not our fault that you couldn't succeed.

You just keep repeating yourself, over and over, offering nothing.

And you lie.

Get laid or something. You are such a clown. No talent.

 

[Anonymous]

You must be in management too, making your money off of other peoples' work, and just sitting there, doing nothing all day, right?

LOL.

Ass clown.

 

[Anonymous]

Pretty creepy that YOU are posting your yourself. I will give you an answer since I am over fifty and stuck in this shitty industry. What makes the job shitty, since it was fun and rewarding more than a decade ago:
1. No access and practitioners do not like reps anymore, they do not want to visit, do not have time and find what we can legally say of no value - they can get the information online.
2. Pharma business "reach and frequency" model never changed when our customers did and now pretty much demand change. This means we do have to lie about our day. On a really good day (and I work at it), I can see maybe two doctors (maybe) and have a good 10 minute conversation with them. My company thinks I am going to "see" and "engage" six to eight specialists in moving conversation. Ok, need I say more? I have to lie to keep my job b/c management has set such stupid requirement that no one can really meet.
This is not something anyone likes to do. The more management pushes this down someone's throat, the less successful the rep feels and it all becomes a "game."
3. Unbelievable amount of reports, emails, glad handing, VMs, and training each week amounting to hours of needless busy-work behind the computer. My territory is HUGE squared and I cannot be driving and working on the computer or making appointments. This makes for very, very long days. Any free time during the day is spent trying to make new appointments, leaving only at night to work on all the reporting/reading B.S. I realize every job has its busywork, but pharma is excessive and almost feels like management and marketing has created all this crap just to please themselves. There is this extraordinary sense of urgency to every single thing they want - like Hell will freeze over. The fact is most of it is not required or needed anymore to do the job.
4. Over regulation by the FDA and PhARMa code. Basically, we cannot say or do anything that involves critical thinking or problem solving. The biggest problem I solve is what the fuck to do with my boss on ride days so that I look like I'm doing something meaningful. Truth is most of my job is driving around for hours to see two doctors for ten minutes.

Why do it?
1. Too old for anyone else to hire me = age discrimination at its best in America! Having fifteen plus years in pharma on your resume is a career killer. I mean that.
2. Need the money to survive. Yep! Not independently wealthy, in fact, not even close.
3. It's a job and I try to leave some time each week for something more meaningful.

So, you can make fun of us all you want but it's just a job. I would get out for half the money if someone would offer me a job that I thought was more rewarding with less B.S. That has not happened yet and may never happen. I am trying to start my own business but never have the real time needed to get it going b/c pharma still takes up too much time with nine and ten hour days being the norm.

 

[Anonymous]

Pretty creepy that YOU are posting your yourself. I will give you an answer since I am over fifty and stuck in this shitty industry. What makes the job shitty, since it was fun and rewarding more than a decade ago:
1. No access and practitioners do not like reps anymore, they do not want to visit, do not have time and find what we can legally say of no value - they can get the information online.
2. Pharma business "reach and frequency" model never changed when our customers did and now pretty much demand change. This means we do have to lie about our day. On a really good day (and I work at it), I can see maybe two doctors (maybe) and have a good 10 minute conversation with them. My company thinks I am going to "see" and "engage" six to eight specialists in moving conversation. Ok, need I say more? I have to lie to keep my job b/c management has set such stupid requirement that no one can really meet.
This is not something anyone likes to do. The more management pushes this down someone's throat, the less successful the rep feels and it all becomes a "game."
3. Unbelievable amount of reports, emails, glad handing, VMs, and training each week amounting to hours of needless busy-work behind the computer. My territory is HUGE squared and I cannot be driving and working on the computer or making appointments. This makes for very, very long days. Any free time during the day is spent trying to make new appointments, leaving only at night to work on all the reporting/reading B.S. I realize every job has its busywork, but pharma is excessive and almost feels like management and marketing has created all this crap just to please themselves. There is this extraordinary sense of urgency to every single thing they want - like Hell will freeze over. The fact is most of it is not required or needed anymore to do the job.
4. Over regulation by the FDA and PhARMa code. Basically, we cannot say or do anything that involves critical thinking or problem solving. The biggest problem I solve is what the fuck to do with my boss on ride days so that I look like I'm doing something meaningful. Truth is most of my job is driving around for hours to see two doctors for ten minutes.

Why do it?
1. Too old for anyone else to hire me = age discrimination at its best in America! Having fifteen plus years in pharma on your resume is a career killer. I mean that.
2. Need the money to survive. Yep! Not independently wealthy, in fact, not even close.
3. It's a job and I try to leave some time each week for something more meaningful.

So, you can make fun of us all you want but it's just a job. I would get out for half the money if someone would offer me a job that I thought was more rewarding with less B.S. That has not happened yet and may never happen. I am trying to start my own business but never have the real time needed to get it going b/c pharma still takes up too much time with nine and ten hour days being the norm.

I am not posting about myself, and that is beside the point. We should have a discussion about the issue at hand, as you have done in your insightful post.

My guess is the other guy that think I am responding to my own posts, does not even work in sales OR is just an angry young rep that thinks the job is so great.

I agree with you. Pharma is a killer for a resume, and that is why I strongly suggest that people don't do it, unless they have a solid plan to get out doing something like starting a business or going back to school for an advanced degree, to pursue a real career.

Good luck with everything. Its just a job, and that is the problem with pharma. But, in your situation, that may be a good thing, because you should put so much pressure on yourself.

Also, I think mangement in pharma is psychopatic for the most part, especially these younger mangers at the district and regional level that still read leadership books and think they are brillant, when nothing is further from the truth, and these people are really just YES men and women. I am glad I got out when I did, and I will never go back to that. In many ways, I was traumatized by this industry and treated like crap, without ever seeing that other industries don't treat people that way. I was brainwashed by the money, like many of you here, and now that I bring that into the light, I am attacked and accused of responding to my own posts, which is a lie and very silly.

 

[Anonymous]

I am not posting about myself, and that is beside the point. We should have a discussion about the issue at hand, as you have done in your insightful post.

My guess is the other guy that think I am responding to my own posts, does not even work in sales OR is just an angry young rep that thinks the job is so great.

I agree with you. Pharma is a killer for a resume, and that is why I strongly suggest that people don't do it, unless they have a solid plan to get out doing something like starting a business or going back to school for an advanced degree, to pursue a real career.

Good luck with everything. Its just a job, and that is the problem with pharma. But, in your situation, that may be a good thing, because you should put so much pressure on yourself.

Also, I think mangement in pharma is psychopatic for the most part, especially these younger mangers at the district and regional level that still read leadership books and think they are brillant, when nothing is further from the truth, and these people are really just YES men and women. I am glad I got out when I did, and I will never go back to that. In many ways, I was traumatized by this industry and treated like crap, without ever seeing that other industries don't treat people that way. I was brainwashed by the money, like many of you here, and now that I bring that into the light, I am attacked and accused of responding to my own posts, which is a lie and very silly.

Sorry for all my typos. Ok, I will believe you. Pursuing a 'real' career is no easy task. I went back and got an advanced degree thinking it might provide me some job security or get me out. Nope. It did not. I tell younger people inside or outside of this business to really do their homework on getting a degree and choosing a career path. There are only an handful of paths that are profitable and enjoyable. Being in pharma at this point is no different than selling cars - our sales is just a little more complicated and we go to our clients to create or find need rather than the other way around. Course, we are really just extensions of marketing at this point. I try hard to not think about whether I like what I do anymore. It would just drive me nuts. A lot of time in the industry and it does make for tough, out-of-touch, lonely, lying people. I mean that. I know of very few oldtimers that have not become good at gaming/lying to get through life. Maybe we all get that way as we age. I do not know anymore. The industry might be toxic and, at this point, I would not know it b/c it is too close to me and I have been here too long. There is a great deal of fear in leaving since I'm not sure that I know how to do anything else and wonder if I have drank so much pharma Kool Aid that I'm kidding myself that I have any talent left at all. What is a relief is that I see very few young people who want to "break into the industry" anymore. Thank God! I still have to work for ten more years. . . no idea what I'll do since every year brings more insecurity and worry. Old age brings ill health and no energy. It becomes a real spiral downward with not much hope of anything else coming along. Hence, my last solution which is my own business. I still have no idea how I will find the time or resources to do it. But I do not see much of a choice.

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry for all my typos. Ok, I will believe you. Pursuing a 'real' career is no easy task. I went back and got an advanced degree thinking it might provide me some job security or get me out. Nope. It did not. I tell younger people inside or outside of this business to really do their homework on getting a degree and choosing a career path. There are only an handful of paths that are profitable and enjoyable. Being in pharma at this point is no different than selling cars - our sales is just a little more complicated and we go to our clients to create or find need rather than the other way around. Course, we are really just extensions of marketing at this point. I try hard to not think about whether I like what I do anymore. It would just drive me nuts. A lot of time in the industry and it does make for tough, out-of-touch, lonely, lying people. I mean that. I know of very few oldtimers that have not become good at gaming/lying to get through life. Maybe we all get that way as we age. I do not know anymore. The industry might be toxic and, at this point, I would not know it b/c it is too close to me and I have been here too long. There is a great deal of fear in leaving since I'm not sure that I know how to do anything else and wonder if I have drank so much pharma Kool Aid that I'm kidding myself that I have any talent left at all. What is a relief is that I see very few young people who want to "break into the industry" anymore. Thank God! I still have to work for ten more years. . . no idea what I'll do since every year brings more insecurity and worry. Old age brings ill health and no energy. It becomes a real spiral downward with not much hope of anything else coming along. Hence, my last solution which is my own business. I still have no idea how I will find the time or resources to do it. But I do not see much of a choice.

Thanks for you post.
As important as it is to find a career that the market needs, it is just as important to cut down on living expenses and live well below our means.

Sales jobs will always be there, because companies need people to push their products. So, we just have to find them. That might mean moving to another city and it definitely may mean find a new industry.

Overall, I think you are under selling your skills as a salesperson. You will be needed in other industries for sure. There are industries that like what we have to offer, such as our presentation skills, business planning skills, and overall professionalism that we were exposed to, by selling to a highly educated audience.

I am no longer in the industry, and am doing good, in another industry. It too me some time, but it was worth it.

Stay focused and don't worry too much about the far future. Prepare for the future with smart investing and surrounding yourself with good people. But, to worry about is not going to add a day to your life, and you will not enjoy the present moment.

Now, I just can't wait for Mr. Know It All jerk, to respond to this. That guy hickjacked this discussion with his horsecrap posts.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for you post.
As important as it is to find a career that the market needs, it is just as important to cut down on living expenses and live well below our means.

Sales jobs will always be there, because companies need people to push their products. So, we just have to find them. That might mean moving to another city and it definitely may mean find a new industry.

Overall, I think you are under selling your skills as a salesperson. You will be needed in other industries for sure. There are industries that like what we have to offer, such as our presentation skills, business planning skills, and overall professionalism that we were exposed to, by selling to a highly educated audience.

I am no longer in the industry, and am doing good, in another industry. It too me some time, but it was worth it.

Stay focused and don't worry too much about the far future. Prepare for the future with smart investing and surrounding yourself with good people. But, to worry about is not going to add a day to your life, and you will not enjoy the present moment.

Now, I just can't wait for Mr. Know It All jerk, to respond to this. That guy hickjacked this discussion with his horsecrap posts.

Ok, so you're out, but what do you do? Financial planning or insurance sales is no longer an option for me b/c it takes maybe four or five years to build up enough clients to actually earn a living. I am not interested in selling cars or being a recruiter. I used to love healthcare and the business of healthcare. Now, all I see is red tape and corruption. I have a good business idea but even that will take years to pull off if it even works at all. When you're female and nearly fifty-five, few (if any) sales jobs want you. This is compounded when you have health issues that are visible at any interview. We do not and never did live beyond our means but after multiple job losses, we do not have much to fall back on either anymore. We are considering downsizing everything but that is really hard when you love your home and worked so hard to make it everything a person could want. It is our only debt but we lose if we sell b/c the market is so bad in my area. I am not willing to move too far do to family reasons and the fact that my husband just found a good job not too far away. If we downsize now, we run the risk of one of our kids or parents still needing to move in. Right now, we have the room. If we downsize, that will never be an option for them. Not to mention we store my husband's side business and storage fees will make moving a huge expense. Yep, I feel trapped. So, now I just go through the motions of life and hang on for dear life. Not how I thought "old age" would be. I do get jealous when I hear of those that retire from this industry with a million dollars in retirement and are enjoying life. All I see is working until I literally drop over dead. It is depressing.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for you post.
As important as it is to find a career that the market needs, it is just as important to cut down on living expenses and live well below our means.

Sales jobs will always be there, because companies need people to push their products. So, we just have to find them. That might mean moving to another city and it definitely may mean find a new industry.

Overall, I think you are under selling your skills as a salesperson. You will be needed in other industries for sure. There are industries that like what we have to offer, such as our presentation skills, business planning skills, and overall professionalism that we were exposed to, by selling to a highly educated audience.

I am no longer in the industry, and am doing good, in another industry. It too me some time, but it was worth it.

Stay focused and don't worry too much about the far future. Prepare for the future with smart investing and surrounding yourself with good people. But, to worry about is not going to add a day to your life, and you will not enjoy the present moment.

Now, I just can't wait for Mr. Know It All jerk, to respond to this. That guy hickjacked this discussion with his horsecrap posts.

Making up fake conversations with yourself doesn't fool anyone. We know you just made the last six posts our of desperation. Face it, you got busted and looked stupid.

 

[Anonymous]

Making up fake conversations with yourself doesn't fool anyone. We know you just made the last six posts our of desperation. Face it, you got busted and looked stupid.

are you are r*****?
wow, over and over, with your bs.

go away!

 

[Anonymous]

are you are r*****?
wow, over and over, with your bs.

go away!

I know you have made this your little crusade over the last few days, but you are not fooling anyone. Was it your mental issues that got you fired or was it you overall lack of intelligence?

 

[Anonymous]

I know you have made this your little crusade over the last few days, but you are not fooling anyone. Was it your mental issues that got you fired or was it you overall lack of intelligence?

Well, it is a bit of both actually. They not only got me fired from the pharma industry, but it has made it hard to keep any job other than working in fast food or a simple retail job. I now spend my time on this board making up stupid posts, agreeing with myself and having fake conversations with myself. Just watch, I will do it again.

 

[Anonymous]

Well, it is a bit of both actually. They not only got me fired from the pharma industry, but it has made it hard to keep any job other than working in fast food or a simple retail job. I now spend my time on this board making up stupid posts, agreeing with myself and having fake conversations with myself. Just watch, I will do it again.

What is your problem? I am not the OP but one of the PPs. I think you are the one obviously posting and responding to yourself. You fool no one. Grow up. I realize you might be angry that you got fired or downsized from pharma and that moving on is hard if not impossible, but no need to rip on people for no reason at all. WTF?

 

[Anonymous]

What is your problem? I am not the OP but one of the PPs. I think you are the one obviously posting and responding to yourself. You fool no one. Grow up. I realize you might be angry that you got fired or downsized from pharma and that moving on is hard if not impossible, but no need to rip on people for no reason at all. WTF?

OP here, thanks for speaking up about this nitwit.

I thought the discussion would be a meaningful one, to discuss what is going on in the industry, and I just wanted to get an idea of the mindset of people over 40.

Things are clearly changing in corporate America, as these companies are under more strain from Washington, and are not investing with new products.

As a result, the employees suffer with further mistreatment and lower salary and lower opportunity to advance and develop their careers.

I just find it so disappointing that we can't have an intelligent discussion about the future of our industry and at least discuss some alternative opportunites.

Or maybe I am wrong and looking into it too much and should just grin and bear the bad treatment?

Either way, this nitwit is just making things worse by lying over and over and not contributing a thing.

Thanks again!