Hey laid off Cluster 2 reps from a year ago.....

[Anonymous]

How is that job search coming along??
Cluster 1 wants to know !

 

[Anonymous]

It sucks..really appreciate what rep life offered....job market is getting slightly better but really is tough finding a home based sales position, very little travel (few overnight national/regional meetings), company car and benefits, decent 401K plan, great free training, no licensing or professional fees/insurance required, all sales material provided free (go to OfficeDepot to make a 2 sided color copy and see how $1.25/copy feels), NO cold calling, ALL Clients prequalified - no worry about their credit, Limited territory size, All computer/I.T. support included, generous marketing budget, Not responsible for pricing, delivery, customer support...direct manager has limited contact, No weekends or after hours, nobody calls to complain at 6pm...and the pay's not to bad considering the time actually spent doing the job...yeah it's been tough to find one of those.

 

[Anonymous]

It sucks..really appreciate what rep life offered....job market is getting slightly better but really is tough finding a home based sales position, very little travel (few overnight national/regional meetings), company car and benefits, decent 401K plan, great free training, no licensing or professional fees/insurance required, all sales material provided free (go to OfficeDepot to make a 2 sided color copy and see how $1.25/copy feels), NO cold calling, ALL Clients prequalified - no worry about their credit, Limited territory size, All computer/I.T. support included, generous marketing budget, Not responsible for pricing, delivery, customer support...direct manager has limited contact, No weekends or after hours, nobody calls to complain at 6pm...and the pay's not to bad considering the time actually spent doing the job...yeah it's been tough to find one of those.

And people still bitch about their job, and God forbid their manager rides with them once a month!!

 

[Anonymous]

And people still bitch about their job, and God forbid their manager rides with them once a month!!

You'll notice how there is not the same amount of bitching as there was 5 years ago. For example, I remember how hot our FORMER colleagues were that they had to share rooms at big meetings. *GASP*! now that we're a fraction of our size from just a few years ago, people finally realize that it gets no better than this. Look at all of the former Pfizer managers and reps that are trying to hook up via LinkedIn. These people barely knew us, but they are desperate to get a lead on a freakin' temp. contract, for Criminy's sake.

 

[Anonymous]

There are jobs out there where you call on the same customers you do at Pfizer and actually do business with them! You sell a service that helps their productivity and enables them to treat patients more effectively. Doctors actually want to sit down and talk to you! Even better, you can do modest, reasonable business entertainment and actually not worry about getting audited and any compliance bullshit.

Jobs in this field pay well over $150K if you know what you are doing and can actually survive in a business to business sales environment. You either close the sale or you don't, so its beyond the grasp of most emotionally infantile Pfizer reps who spend the bulk of their time faking calls, creating fictional stories about how they are impacting their business along with their KAMs, and generally living through an idealized version of themselves that they conjure up when in reality they do absolutely nothing to influence physician prescribing behavior.

You don't spend hours on GPM writing a satirical piece on what you supposedly do all year (its all bullshit anyway). You don't waste time on IDP's that mean nothing because nobody has a clue how they are supposed to work. There is no smoke and mirrors coffee house crap when it comes to who does what, because its all cut and dry. B2B jobs are beyond the comprehension of 99.99% of you people because you actually have to go out and work and sell a service instead of reciting a canned sound bite.

Life after Pfizer is very fulfilling and full of promise. I am making hundreds of thousands of dollars and can actually tell my kids what I do for a living and be proud. The final coup de grace is that I will never, ever again have to drag a manager into a crowded doctor's office and try to get 20 seconds of their time. I actually partner with them now and do business.

Thanks for asking!!

 

[Anonymous]

It sucks..really appreciate what rep life offered....job market is getting slightly better but really is tough finding a home based sales position, very little travel (few overnight national/regional meetings), company car and benefits, decent 401K plan, great free training, no licensing or professional fees/insurance required, all sales material provided free (go to OfficeDepot to make a 2 sided color copy and see how $1.25/copy feels), NO cold calling, ALL Clients prequalified - no worry about their credit, Limited territory size, All computer/I.T. support included, generous marketing budget, Not responsible for pricing, delivery, customer support...direct manager has limited contact, No weekends or after hours, nobody calls to complain at 6pm...and the pay's not to bad considering the time actually spent doing the job...yeah it's been tough to find one of those.

Yeah but you are making peanuts.

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah but you are making peanuts.

But 3 years from now, there is an excellent chance that if you are drawing a paycheck, it will be with Publicis Touchpoint or InVentiv, making exactly 50% less than you make now. Do your research, Bucko. Studies are pretty clear that contract folks drive share just as well as full-timers. Hello! 25 second sound bytes sound the same coming from people making 65,000 and those making $130,000.

 

[Anonymous]

But 3 years from now, there is an excellent chance that if you are drawing a paycheck, it will be with Publicis Touchpoint or InVentiv, making exactly 50% less than you make now. Do your research, Bucko. Studies are pretty clear that contract folks drive share just as well as full-timers. Hello! 25 second sound bytes sound the same coming from people making 65,000 and those making $130,000.

That's the truth! MANY of us contract people were "let go" by former employer because our salaries were WAY higher than what this industry now wants to pay.
Most contract reps are excellent sales people just waiting to find a "career" elsewhere. Contract is a descent pay check until that happens.
You assholes that "put down" your contract reps are so out-of-touch with reality that it's amazing. You'll be standing in line soon, fucker, begging for one of these contract gigs.
Count on it.

 

[Anonymous]

There are jobs out there where you call on the same customers you do at Pfizer and actually do business with them! You sell a service that helps their productivity and enables them to treat patients more effectively. Doctors actually want to sit down and talk to you! Even better, you can do modest, reasonable business entertainment and actually not worry about getting audited and any compliance bullshit.

Jobs in this field pay well over $150K if you know what you are doing and can actually survive in a business to business sales environment. You either close the sale or you don't, so its beyond the grasp of most emotionally infantile Pfizer reps who spend the bulk of their time faking calls, creating fictional stories about how they are impacting their business along with their KAMs, and generally living through an idealized version of themselves that they conjure up when in reality they do absolutely nothing to influence physician prescribing behavior.

You don't spend hours on GPM writing a satirical piece on what you supposedly do all year (its all bullshit anyway). You don't waste time on IDP's that mean nothing because nobody has a clue how they are supposed to work. There is no smoke and mirrors coffee house crap when it comes to who does what, because its all cut and dry. B2B jobs are beyond the comprehension of 99.99% of you people because you actually have to go out and work and sell a service instead of reciting a canned sound bite.

Life after Pfizer is very fulfilling and full of promise. I am making hundreds of thousands of dollars and can actually tell my kids what I do for a living and be proud. The final coup de grace is that I will never, ever again have to drag a manager into a crowded doctor's office and try to get 20 seconds of their time. I actually partner with them now and do business.

Thanks for asking!!

So why don't you tell us what this job/industry is? Thx in advance...

 

[Anonymous]

So why don't you tell us what this job/industry is? Thx in advance...

First to OP - even at $150K or $100k in B2B - expenses are not paid. You may net $60K to $80K. Gas can eat up $250-1000 per month alone. Then add sales materials, sales training, overnights, car expenses, computer/iPad, food and entertainment expenses, chargebacks (when companies take money from your paycheck for unpaid bills), bitter co-workers, changing commission rates, client stealing, lack of advance or improvement opportunities, cold calls, promises made about money, collections calls, and turnover rates of 75%-80% per year. It is dead end, even if you are the best salesperson in the company.

The respect and level of professionalism is different than in pharma or other corporate sales. It's a job until the next one comes along.

 

[Anonymous]

previous post laid out a pretty harsh sales reality picture of what making $150,000 in "real" outside sales vs that $85.000 in pharma (Car, car expenses, no company or very limited benefits, nickel & dime costs of office expenses etc...) Oh you get write this off your taxes! Yeah.. Spend a dollar to get a .20 cent tax break...gov't not that stupid..

True..nothing like having that deal closed (yeah! big commish) to find out later...a) Order cancelled because..insert reason here b) Client forgot to pay - guess what you don't get paid c) We, your company screwed up order...either way somebody is reaching in your pocket and taking back that commission money.

 

[Anonymous]

So why don't you tell us what this job/industry is? Thx in advance...

Selling customizable platforms that enable physician groups around the country to achieve and maintain NCQA PCMH Level III Certificate status.

You work to develop strategic partnerships

-base $80-85K
-company car
-as good/better benefits than pharma
-uncapped bonus ($100K easy the first year if you get out and work)
-ability to hire people to work on your team as CSA's if you build enough business (yes, you actually run a business if you bring in enough revenue)
-no manager breathing down your neck and harassing you in the car. You report to a home office
-you can take your clients out to dinner and talk to them like regular people do without visions of Pfizer compliance people lurking in the shadows
-I'll say it again. Your customers need to do this and want to talk to you. I have been doing it a year now since I couldn't take Pfizer's BS anymore and I have more business than I can handle.

Those are all the clues I am giving you. Anybody that is capable of doing this job has enough info in this post to make a career change.

 

[Anonymous]

previous post laid out a pretty harsh sales reality picture of what making $150,000 in "real" outside sales vs that $85.000 in pharma (Car, car expenses, no company or very limited benefits, nickel & dime costs of office expenses etc...) Oh you get write this off your taxes! Yeah.. Spend a dollar to get a .20 cent tax break...gov't not that stupid..

True..nothing like having that deal closed (yeah! big commish) to find out later...a) Order cancelled because..insert reason here b) Client forgot to pay - guess what you don't get paid c) We, your company screwed up order...either way somebody is reaching in your pocket and taking back that commission money.

Say what you want to say about it. It's real work that has real reward.

In 3 years the only pharma rep jobs will be contract jobs. Only people right out of college will want them or be able to survive on the $50-55K salary range. The last of the bloated $130K "rep" jobs will be completely purged out of the big pharma companies.

The only things left to scramble over at Pfizer will be web based operations jobs, marketing coordinators, soem version of the extremely inefficient and inadequately structured "KAM/ISS" jobs that waste millions of dollars, and a smattering of other fake jobs that can be conjured up and justified so that the RBD's that remain can take care of their cronies. There will be very few.

Unless you are hanging on for full retirement status within the next 36 months or have a spouse that has a stable job that allows you to do this as a vocational career so you can do errands during the day, attend your kids school activities at 330 or sell real estate on the side I can't warn you strongly enough to look at your next career choice and do it now. make it your 2014 resolution because you have no idea how unmarketable you are if you get downsized out and have to live off an ATS package while you try to find work.

Get out now and you will be fine, companies will take a risk and hire you if you are currently in pharma and are taking the self initiative to get out. It will take close to a year. If you wait until you are let go, that severance package that takes 4-5 months to finally arrive will be halfway gone due to taxes and bills you have already racked up after WARN ends. And every interviewer you sit in front of will be able to smell the desperation and you will be out of work a long, long time.

This is meant to be friendly advice, not confrontational. There are 2 paths to take to get out of this company. Do not under any circumstance just wait around for them to act and downsize you out unless you are almost done or are just working for discretionary income in your household.

 

[Anonymous]

Say what you want to say about it. It's real work that has real reward.

In 3 years the only pharma rep jobs will be contract jobs. Only people right out of college will want them or be able to survive on the $50-55K salary range. The last of the bloated $130K "rep" jobs will be completely purged out of the big pharma companies.

The only things left to scramble over at Pfizer will be web based operations jobs, marketing coordinators, soem version of the extremely inefficient and inadequately structured "KAM/ISS" jobs that waste millions of dollars, and a smattering of other fake jobs that can be conjured up and justified so that the RBD's that remain can take care of their cronies. There will be very few.

Unless you are hanging on for full retirement status within the next 36 months or have a spouse that has a stable job that allows you to do this as a vocational career so you can do errands during the day, attend your kids school activities at 330 or sell real estate on the side I can't warn you strongly enough to look at your next career choice and do it now. make it your 2014 resolution because you have no idea how unmarketable you are if you get downsized out and have to live off an ATS package while you try to find work.

Get out now and you will be fine, companies will take a risk and hire you if you are currently in pharma and are taking the self initiative to get out. It will take close to a year. If you wait until you are let go, that severance package that takes 4-5 months to finally arrive will be halfway gone due to taxes and bills you have already racked up after WARN ends. And every interviewer you sit in front of will be able to smell the desperation and you will be out of work a long, long time.

This is meant to be friendly advice, not confrontational. There are 2 paths to take to get out of this company. Do not under any circumstance just wait around for them to act and downsize you out unless you are almost done or are just working for discretionary income in your household.

I agree with this in it's entirety

 

[Anonymous]

So why don't you tell us what this job/industry is? Thx in advance...

…says the soon-to-be unemployed pharma rep, taking the bait laid out my a former Pfizer RM in a previous post.

 

[Anonymous]

Say what you want to say about it. It's real work that has real reward.

In 3 years the only pharma rep jobs will be contract jobs. Only people right out of college will want them or be able to survive on the $50-55K salary range. The last of the bloated $130K "rep" jobs will be completely purged out of the big pharma companies.

The only things left to scramble over at Pfizer will be web based operations jobs, marketing coordinators, soem version of the extremely inefficient and inadequately structured "KAM/ISS" jobs that waste millions of dollars, and a smattering of other fake jobs that can be conjured up and justified so that the RBD's that remain can take care of their cronies. There will be very few.

Unless you are hanging on for full retirement status within the next 36 months or have a spouse that has a stable job that allows you to do this as a vocational career so you can do errands during the day, attend your kids school activities at 330 or sell real estate on the side I can't warn you strongly enough to look at your next career choice and do it now. make it your 2014 resolution because you have no idea how unmarketable you are if you get downsized out and have to live off an ATS package while you try to find work.

Get out now and you will be fine, companies will take a risk and hire you if you are currently in pharma and are taking the self initiative to get out. It will take close to a year. If you wait until you are let go, that severance package that takes 4-5 months to finally arrive will be halfway gone due to taxes and bills you have already racked up after WARN ends. And every interviewer you sit in front of will be able to smell the desperation and you will be out of work a long, long time.

This is meant to be friendly advice, not confrontational. There are 2 paths to take to get out of this company. Do not under any circumstance just wait around for them to act and downsize you out unless you are almost done or are just working for discretionary income in your household.

I left only own volition right after we shit-canned Bextra in 2004. MOST of what you say is true, but I take issue to your hinting that companies will take a risk and hire pharma reps. I have upwards of 40 former colleagues/competitors that haven't been able to find work at anywhere CLOSE to their former salaries. The only exceptions are those that signed on with small pharma company with 1 or 2 drugs, their salary is only 24-33% less than it was here.

If you have not added on to your capabilities by attending professional ed classes (i.e ToastMasters) or getting a MBA you will be stuck in the Merry go Round with tens of thousands of others with almost identical career track records. There is a HUGE amount of disrespect for what we do for a living. They know that we have a gigantic, multi-million dollar ad campaign, speaker training networks, KOL programs, humongous media campaigns, secret networks of prominent (undercover) advisors and consultants that make sure that our meds are prominently placed on government contracts and managed care formularies.

Conversely, outside B2B companies have almost none of the above. And they have serious doubts that a lifer pharma rep can make the jump.

Don't believe me? Go and look up ex-Pfizer folks that were FFOd or ATSd. I'll betcha if it still doesn't say Pfizer in the "current" position, it'll have either a contract sales company, or Eisai, Otsuka, Sunovion, Amgen, or Lundbeck. That's pretty much it!! Some have grown a set of stones and started their own pharma training consulting businesses, but their clients always seem to be….Eisai, Otsuka, Sunovion, or Lundbeck (NO AMGEN!!!).

 

[Anonymous]

Say what you want to say about it. It's real work that has real reward.

In 3 years the only pharma rep jobs will be contract jobs. Only people right out of college will want them or be able to survive on the $50-55K salary range. The last of the bloated $130K "rep" jobs will be completely purged out of the big pharma companies.

The only things left to scramble over at Pfizer will be web based operations jobs, marketing coordinators, soem version of the extremely inefficient and inadequately structured "KAM/ISS" jobs that waste millions of dollars, and a smattering of other fake jobs that can be conjured up and justified so that the RBD's that remain can take care of their cronies. There will be very few.

Unless you are hanging on for full retirement status within the next 36 months or have a spouse that has a stable job that allows you to do this as a vocational career so you can do errands during the day, attend your kids school activities at 330 or sell real estate on the side I can't warn you strongly enough to look at your next career choice and do it now. make it your 2014 resolution because you have no idea how unmarketable you are if you get downsized out and have to live off an ATS package while you try to find work.

Get out now and you will be fine, companies will take a risk and hire you if you are currently in pharma and are taking the self initiative to get out. It will take close to a year. If you wait until you are let go, that severance package that takes 4-5 months to finally arrive will be halfway gone due to taxes and bills you have already racked up after WARN ends. And every interviewer you sit in front of will be able to smell the desperation and you will be out of work a long, long time.

This is meant to be friendly advice, not confrontational. There are 2 paths to take to get out of this company. Do not under any circumstance just wait around for them to act and downsize you out unless you are almost done or are just working for discretionary income in your household.

No one will believe you until they feel the sting after getting that dreaded phone call. Everything thinks that their multiple "Get After It", VPC, and "Rookie of the Year" Awards will set them apart from the morass of unemployed pharmaceutical reps and managers.

 

[Anonymous]

I left only own volition right after we shit-canned Bextra in 2004. MOST of what you say is true, but I take issue to your hinting that companies will take a risk and hire pharma reps. I have upwards of 40 former colleagues/competitors that haven't been able to find work at anywhere CLOSE to their former salaries. The only exceptions are those that signed on with small pharma company with 1 or 2 drugs, their salary is only 24-33% less than it was here.

If you have not added on to your capabilities by attending professional ed classes (i.e ToastMasters) or getting a MBA you will be stuck in the Merry go Round with tens of thousands of others with almost identical career track records. There is a HUGE amount of disrespect for what we do for a living. They know that we have a gigantic, multi-million dollar ad campaign, speaker training networks, KOL programs, humongous media campaigns, secret networks of prominent (undercover) advisors and consultants that make sure that our meds are prominently placed on government contracts and managed care formularies.

Conversely, outside B2B companies have almost none of the above. And they have serious doubts that a lifer pharma rep can make the jump.

Don't believe me? Go and look up ex-Pfizer folks that were FFOd or ATSd. I'll betcha if it still doesn't say Pfizer in the "current" position, it'll have either a contract sales company, or Eisai, Otsuka, Sunovion, Amgen, or Lundbeck. That's pretty much it!! Some have grown a set of stones and started their own pharma training consulting businesses, but their clients always seem to be….Eisai, Otsuka, Sunovion, or Lundbeck (NO AMGEN!!!).

If there is any way that you can show that you affected your business through the things that you have done, it is possible.

There are ways to set yourself apart from all of the rah rah "OWN IT" B.S., the mind numbing tedium of working around your idiot counterparts, the games you have to play with your manager to justify their jobs, the overbearing political correctness in this hell hole, and state direct outcomes of specific things that you do with your customers and the resulting business growth.

If you have a few good years and can explain how you did it, you can jump to another growing industry that involves selling something tangible to the customers you have built relationships with (back when you could actually do that without having to work around all of the incompetent and worthless dead weight that tries to take credit for everything you do nowadays)

Take the time to plan your exit and find out what is in your area.

 

[Anonymous]

I left only own volition right after we shit-canned Bextra in 2004. MOST of what you say is true, but I take issue to your hinting that companies will take a risk and hire pharma reps. I have upwards of 40 former colleagues/competitors that haven't been able to find work at anywhere CLOSE to their former salaries. The only exceptions are those that signed on with small pharma company with 1 or 2 drugs, their salary is only 24-33% less than it was here.

If you have not added on to your capabilities by attending professional ed classes (i.e ToastMasters) or getting a MBA you will be stuck in the Merry go Round with tens of thousands of others with almost identical career track records. There is a HUGE amount of disrespect for what we do for a living. They know that we have a gigantic, multi-million dollar ad campaign, speaker training networks, KOL programs, humongous media campaigns, secret networks of prominent (undercover) advisors and consultants that make sure that our meds are prominently placed on government contracts and managed care formularies.

Conversely, outside B2B companies have almost none of the above. And they have serious doubts that a lifer pharma rep can make the jump.

Don't believe me? Go and look up ex-Pfizer folks that were FFOd or ATSd. I'll betcha if it still doesn't say Pfizer in the "current" position, it'll have either a contract sales company, or Eisai, Otsuka, Sunovion, Amgen, or Lundbeck. That's pretty much it!! Some have grown a set of stones and started their own pharma training consulting businesses, but their clients always seem to be….Eisai, Otsuka, Sunovion, or Lundbeck (NO AMGEN!!!).

The only bigger waste of money than getting an MBA is throwing money into the moddle of your table and burning it.

A horseshit degree if there ever was one

 

[Anonymous]

The only bigger waste of money than getting an MBA is throwing money into the moddle of your table and burning it.

A horseshit degree if there ever was one

Unfortunately, a lot of high-paying positions require an MBA. Mind you, I am not talking about that travesty known as a Masters in Pharma Marketing from St Josephs, I am talking MBA in Finance or some such. Otherwise, I agree wholeheartedly with you.