Haven't done a net worth thread in a while...

[Anonymous]

Whether oncology reps will be here or not is pure speculation. What I would say is that one of the largest R&D investments in biopharma is oncology. I would also state that you are wrong that because you do not get a purchase order doesn’t mean you are not selling. Do you think pacemaker reps get a PO every time a doc puts one in? They order them just like any other medical supply from a distributor who has the contract generally through a GPO like Broadlane. The only true PO’s where T&C’s are negotiated are depreciable equipment. Do you really think the pacemaker rep is negotiating T&C’s for each unit placed? Of course not. Also, I would also say you have very little knowledge of oncology and should go onto NCCN and look at the guidelines and see in each tumor type how many recommendation there are in each line of therapy. This is where oncology reps sell.

Most biopham analysts will state that even if the rep only has a 1-2% influence on what the doctor prescribes this supports the use of rep as 1-2% in multimillion dollar markets generally can be profitable for the company when matched against the cost for a rep.

What you will see in oncology is less reps with bigger territories as there really is no need to see an oncologists more than once a quarter. Most analysts state that being in a highly specialized field where contacts are very important is the safest, albeit not guaranteed, place for reps to be. The worst place to be is in unspecialized primary care and reps who have not developed experience in a specialty like, oncology, HIV, MS, neurology etc.

Just and FYI on this statement: "Do you think pacemaker reps get a PO every time a doc puts one in? They order them just like any other medical supply from a distributor who has the contract generally through a GPO like Broadlane. "

Hospitals don't stock pacers, or any other high priced implantable (i.e. spinal implants, neuromod, etc). They call a rep every time they need one and that rep gets a PO for it. The contract price has already been negotiated.

I was in both pharma and device, and I have to say the in pharma there really isn't much sales going on, its more promotion/marketing. In device, there is a pretty clear sales cycle, that ends with a PO or doesn't.

Also, a big difference between pharma and device is that in pharma, you have data to back up why drug x is better than y. You don't have that in device. There are rarely head-to-head trials. They just get it to market and then leave it in the rep's hands to succeed. This is where the sales comes in. You basically have to get a doc to use your product because you told him it was better (not because you showed him the latest NEJM article about your drug)

- a former device rep who sold both implantable devices and capital equipment who negotiated price on a range of products from $100 implants to $350,000 capital equipment.

 

[I Love America]

Whether oncology reps will be here or not is pure speculation. What I would say is that one of the largest R&D investments in biopharma is oncology.

As Hairy said, not because of any free market, but because of the gobblement and third parties paying the bill. How long do you think third parties are going to continue paying $80,000 a for a drug to extend life by two months? Would you if you were paying your own cash?

I would also state that you are wrong that because you do not get a purchase order doesn’t mean you are not selling. Do you think pacemaker reps get a PO every time a doc puts one in? They order them just like any other medical supply from a distributor who has the contract generally through a GPO like Broadlane. The only true PO’s where T&C’s are negotiated are depreciable equipment. Do you really think the pacemaker rep is negotiating T&C’s for each unit placed? Of course not. Also, I would also say you have very little knowledge of oncology and should go onto NCCN and look at the guidelines and see in each tumor type how many recommendation there are in each line of therapy. This is where oncology reps sell.

bottom line is that oncology reps are probably breaking the law when they are doing their jobs. 95% of oncology use is off label. now either you oncology "specialists" are selling off label and breaking the law or the physician is doing it without you. Look, I feel your pain, it is tough to have the self awareness to admit that what one does has no redeeming value. But, the fact of the matter is that pharma reps have outlived their usefulness. If you want to try to niche yourself as something special being "oncology" or "speciality" then that is fine. I can't blame you.

Most biopham analysts will state that even if the rep only has a 1-2% influence on what the doctor prescribes this supports the use of rep as 1-2% in multimillion dollar markets generally can be profitable for the company when matched against the cost for a rep.

What you will see in oncology is less reps with bigger territories as there really is no need to see an oncologists more than once a quarter. Most analysts state that being in a highly specialized field where contacts are very important is the safest, albeit not guaranteed, place for reps to be. The worst place to be is in unspecialized primary care and reps who have not developed experience in a specialty like, oncology, HIV, MS, neurology etc.

It is funny that the first sentence in this paragraph completely contradicts your very first sentence of this post. Seems like you are agreeing with me. There is nothing "specialized" about oncology, HIV, MS or neurology. Unless of course you are willing to go tell a cardiologist that his isn't a specialty. The "speciality" designation is just one given by the pharma industry, but it means nothing except to those trying to justify their worthless existence.

Trust me, get the resume in order

 

[Anonymous]

Just and FYI on this statement: "Do you think pacemaker reps get a PO every time a doc puts one in? They order them just like any other medical supply from a distributor who has the contract generally through a GPO like Broadlane. "

Hospitals don't stock pacers, or any other high priced implantable (i.e. spinal implants, neuromod, etc). They call a rep every time they need one and that rep gets a PO for it. The contract price has already been negotiated.

I was in both pharma and device, and I have to say the in pharma there really isn't much sales going on, its more promotion/marketing. In device, there is a pretty clear sales cycle, that ends with a PO or doesn't.

Also, a big difference between pharma and device is that in pharma, you have data to back up why drug x is better than y. You don't have that in device. There are rarely head-to-head trials. They just get it to market and then leave it in the rep's hands to succeed. This is where the sales comes in. You basically have to get a doc to use your product because you told him it was better (not because you showed him the latest NEJM article about your drug)

- a former device rep who sold both implantable devices and capital equipment who negotiated price on a range of products from $100 implants to $350,000 capital equipment.

Some pieces of equipment and device are sold through the rep channels but for the vast majority of non capital goods the PO is placed through a medical distributor with pricing negotiated via the GPO, the rep is more of a service rep than a sales rep like the pacemaker reps. If are scrubbing in you are not a sales rep your are a service/apps rep. So to the posters point the doc is not calling the Medtronic rep to order a pacemaker. I place the order through the GPO. Yes in spinal implants they will buy it through the rep, but even in that instance most spinal implant reps are part of a distributor and the product comes from the distributor the rep is merely placing the order. Hip replacement are a catalog purchase and there is no need to call the rep unless that rep is the applications guy as well. I will call the inside sales rep and place the order via the catalog number and the price is already negotiated via the GPO. This is how 90% of medical device and non capital equipment are ordered and delivered. I started off as a device rep and have been a purchasing manager for a major hospital group for the past 15 years. I see very little difference in any of the reps that call on me pharma, equipment, device, disposables etc. To say it is more sales because you get a PO versus pull through at the pharmacy to me is a funny argument.

Convincing someone to buy your goods or services is what sales it, not how the product reaches the customer. Tell me the difference between a rep convincing an infectious disease doc to use their antibiotic over a competitors and a pacemaker rep convincing a Cardiac Surgeon to implant your pacemaker versus the competition’s? Not much from where I sit.

 

[Anonymous]

Trust me, get the resume in order

Whether oncology reps will be here or not is pure speculation. What I would say is that one of the largest R&D investments in biopharma is oncology.

As Hairy said, not because of any free market, but because of the gobblement and third parties paying the bill. How long do you think third parties are going to continue paying $80,000 a for a drug to extend life by two months? Would you if you were paying your own cash?

First what Hairy said was there were NO, not one, drug rep making $175K a year or more. Which I proved there was. Second as long as the threat of not developing new drugs is alive and well the GOV will keep paying for them, and private payers will continue to follow. Even under Obama care, if it stands, will have little effect on the pricing of drugs.

bottom line is that oncology reps are probably breaking the law when they are doing their jobs. 95% of oncology use is off label. now either you oncology "specialists" are selling off label and breaking the law or the physician is doing it without you. Look, I feel your pain, it is tough to have the self awareness to admit that what one does has no redeeming value. But, the fact of the matter is that pharma reps have outlived their usefulness. If you want to try to niche yourself as something special being "oncology" or "speciality" then that is fine. I can't blame you.

Where do you get your 95% of oncology use is off label statistic? Footnote that for me. Yes many oncology agents are used off label but not by the help or promotion of the reps. Most oncology companies get diagnosis codes for their therapies and most do not give credit on off label vials/bottles thus there is zero incentive to promote off label. I am very aware that my job does not have any redeeming value other than probably getting 1 to 2 or 5 or 10% or whatever my nfluence on prescribing is. I’m OK with that. If someone is willing to pay me $150K to $200K a year and a $900 a month car allowance and 51 cents a mile, I’ll let them be the judge of whether me or any other rep at the company is worth it. I’ll let the companies decide if my relationships, my knowledge of oncology, and my experience are worth it. For the past 15 years they have been, and I never see oncology job listings stating no oncology experience necessary so companies are still not grabbing cheap primary care reps, so clearly they see a value in it. I don’t need my job to have some higher meaning for me. It is a means to an end and in no way defines me. I’m not trying to niche myself the market has already done that for me hence why oncology reps are amongst the highest if not the highest paid bio/pharm reps. I don’t need oncology to make me feel special I need it to make me more money which it has.

It is funny that the first sentence in this paragraph completely contradicts your very first sentence of this post. Seems like you are agreeing with me. There is nothing "specialized" about oncology, HIV, MS or neurology. Unless of course you are willing to go tell a cardiologist that his isn't a specialty. The "speciality" designation is just one given by the pharma industry, but it means nothing except to those trying to justify their worthless existence.

Not sure I follow you on the contradiction here. All I said was that it is purely speculative whether oncology reps will be here. I speculate they will, you speculate they won’t. We shall see. The first sentence of this paragraph says that there will be less oncology reps, note I did not say none, just less, and they will have bigger territories. Not sure how you deduced that as a contradiction.

“Specialty”, ie selling a primary care drug to a specialists is not the same as rep who sells in a specialty like oncology, and the compensation packages prove that. It ain’t worthless if someone is willing to pay for it…

 

[I Love America]

Whether oncology reps will be here or not is pure speculation. What I would say is that one of the largest R&D investments in biopharma is oncology.

As Hairy said, not because of any free market, but because of the gobblement and third parties paying the bill. How long do you think third parties are going to continue paying $80,000 a for a drug to extend life by two months? Would you if you were paying your own cash?

First what Hairy said was there were NO, not one, drug rep making $175K a year or more. Which I proved there was. Second as long as the threat of not developing new drugs is alive and well the GOV will keep paying for them, and private payers will continue to follow. Even under Obama care, if it stands, will have little effect on the pricing of drugs.

bottom line is that oncology reps are probably breaking the law when they are doing their jobs. 95% of oncology use is off label. now either you oncology "specialists" are selling off label and breaking the law or the physician is doing it without you. Look, I feel your pain, it is tough to have the self awareness to admit that what one does has no redeeming value. But, the fact of the matter is that pharma reps have outlived their usefulness. If you want to try to niche yourself as something special being "oncology" or "speciality" then that is fine. I can't blame you.

Where do you get your 95% of oncology use is off label statistic? Footnote that for me. Yes many oncology agents are used off label but not by the help or promotion of the reps. Most oncology companies get diagnosis codes for their therapies and most do not give credit on off label vials/bottles thus there is zero incentive to promote off label. I am very aware that my job does not have any redeeming value other than probably getting 1 to 2 or 5 or 10% or whatever my nfluence on prescribing is. I’m OK with that. If someone is willing to pay me $150K to $200K a year and a $900 a month car allowance and 51 cents a mile, I’ll let them be the judge of whether me or any other rep at the company is worth it. I’ll let the companies decide if my relationships, my knowledge of oncology, and my experience are worth it. For the past 15 years they have been, and I never see oncology job listings stating no oncology experience necessary so companies are still not grabbing cheap primary care reps, so clearly they see a value in it. I don’t need my job to have some higher meaning for me. It is a means to an end and in no way defines me. I’m not trying to niche myself the market has already done that for me hence why oncology reps are amongst the highest if not the highest paid bio/pharm reps. I don’t need oncology to make me feel special I need it to make me more money which it has.

It is funny that the first sentence in this paragraph completely contradicts your very first sentence of this post. Seems like you are agreeing with me. There is nothing "specialized" about oncology, HIV, MS or neurology. Unless of course you are willing to go tell a cardiologist that his isn't a specialty. The "speciality" designation is just one given by the pharma industry, but it means nothing except to those trying to justify their worthless existence.

Not sure I follow you on the contradiction here. All I said was that it is purely speculative whether oncology reps will be here. I speculate they will, you speculate they won’t. We shall see. The first sentence of this paragraph says that there will be less oncology reps, note I did not say none, just less, and they will have bigger territories. Not sure how you deduced that as a contradiction.

“Specialty”, ie selling a primary care drug to a specialists is not the same as rep who sells in a specialty like oncology, and the compensation packages prove that. It ain’t worthless if someone is willing to pay for it…

Where did I say Oncology reps won't be here? I said no such thing. I said, if you think what is happening to Big Pharma won't happen to you "speciality" reps you are deluding yourself.

Everything you "speciality reps" say about yourselves, those primary care reps you have disdain for said about themselves prior to the blood letting.

Big Pharma thought they were bullet proof too. You think you are bullet proof. You think that governments are going to continue to pay for $80,000 therapies. If you think that then you aren't paying attention. Governments are strapped for cash and they will cut because they have no choice. Sure the people will bitch, but they should have thought of that before they let the gobblement pay for their healthcare.

Physicians make fewer and fewer decisions when it comes to drug therapy. That is a fact. Yes, oncology to date has largely been spared. But, do you really think that will continue? DId any physician ever believe that they would be told what they can write and for whom? But, they eventually accepted their fate. They had no choice. Oncologists will be no different. I don't know when it will happen, but I can 100% guarentee it will happen. It is the only way socialized medicine works

 

[Anonymous]

Where did I say Oncology reps won't be here? I said no such thing. I said, if you think what is happening to Big Pharma won't happen to you "speciality" reps you are deluding yourself.

Everything you "speciality reps" say about yourselves, those primary care reps you have disdain for said about themselves prior to the blood letting.

Big Pharma thought they were bullet proof too. You think you are bullet proof. You think that governments are going to continue to pay for $80,000 therapies. If you think that then you aren't paying attention. Governments are strapped for cash and they will cut because they have no choice. Sure the people will bitch, but they should have thought of that before they let the gobblement pay for their healthcare.

Physicians make fewer and fewer decisions when it comes to drug therapy. That is a fact. Yes, oncology to date has largely been spared. But, do you really think that will continue? DId any physician ever believe that they would be told what they can write and for whom? But, they eventually accepted their fate. They had no choice. Oncologists will be no different. I don't know when it will happen, but I can 100% guarentee it will happen. It is the only way socialized medicine works

OK I think we are agreeing with each other here to some extent here. I am not deluded in thinking that the size of the oncology sales pool will not decrease as did the big pharma mass market companies. It is already happening with big layoffs at Genentech, Biogen, and Bayer just to name a few. All we are seeing in big pharma and now in oncology is a right sizing back to pre 1990’s level. The number of reps should have never ballooned to the levels they reached in the late 90’s and into the 2000’s in the mass market or even in the specialized markets. There was no need to have 8 people marketing the same drug to the same physician. I don’t look at the slashing cuts to the pharma sales forces as a bad thing as it is the appropriate thing. It was too fat and now it has slimmed down. I’m OK with that, it has and will continue to hit all therapeutic areas, by no means do I think I immune. What I do think, as you correctly posted, is to date and in my opinion, for the foreseeable future, oncology as been unaffected or at least less affected by payers, the GOV included. I agree that doc’s are being restricted more than ever, but the one thing insurers and the GOV have not, and will not, mess with anytime soon, in my opinion, is catastrophic diseases. They’ll beat up on the branded statins and PPI’s and other commodity classes that gobble up a disproportionate share of the drug spend way before they mess with cancer patients. Also the “Cancer Lobby” (ACS, ASCO, LLF, etc.) is one of, if not the, most influential medical lobby consortiums in DC. Politicians are not all that quick to tell AARP members that Medicare isn’t going to pay for their breast cancer treatment, even if it only gives them one month of life. Even if the US moves to a socialized system(which in my opinion is unlikely) like the UK or Canada the affect on oncology drugs will be small as in both of those countries oncology therapies enjoy premium pricing. Hence why you see little border crossing on oncology agents. The only way the payers like the GOV and private payers are going to affect the price of oncology drugs is by putting price caps on them. If they do that they have to gamble that drug developers will still develop drugs in hard to treat, expensive to study, and high failure rate disease states like cancer. To date what just about every bio/pharm sectore analysts state is that this is not the game of poker the payers are willing to pay nor could actually win. You don’t want to pay $80K for this therapy fine we will stop making it. It is as simple as that.

Again I’m not saying it will not change, if as you suggest, we end up having a socialized system. What I will say is I work for a small biotech oncology company and we have commercial operations and reps in just about every modernized country in the world, most of which have socialized systems. So even in a socialized system there seems to be rationale for having a street level rep. I will say that our Canadian reps make in line with what we in the states make so it’s not like due to socialized medicine the oncology reps are making less money. Oncology and specialties like it are far more immune than most, and biggest likelihood of me being out of work is the very high probability that we will be bought, which is what we all want. If that happens I, and most people at my company, will never have to work again.

 

[Anonymous]

Some pieces of equipment and device are sold through the rep channels but for the vast majority of non capital goods the PO is placed through a medical distributor with pricing negotiated via the GPO, the rep is more of a service rep than a sales rep like the pacemaker reps. If are scrubbing in you are not a sales rep your are a service/apps rep. So to the posters point the doc is not calling the Medtronic rep to order a pacemaker. I place the order through the GPO. Yes in spinal implants they will buy it through the rep, but even in that instance most spinal implant reps are part of a distributor and the product comes from the distributor the rep is merely placing the order. Hip replacement are a catalog purchase and there is no need to call the rep unless that rep is the applications guy as well. I will call the inside sales rep and place the order via the catalog number and the price is already negotiated via the GPO. This is how 90% of medical device and non capital equipment are ordered and delivered. I started off as a device rep and have been a purchasing manager for a major hospital group for the past 15 years. I see very little difference in any of the reps that call on me pharma, equipment, device, disposables etc. To say it is more sales because you get a PO versus pull through at the pharmacy to me is a funny argument.

Convincing someone to buy your goods or services is what sales it, not how the product reaches the customer. Tell me the difference between a rep convincing an infectious disease doc to use their antibiotic over a competitors and a pacemaker rep convincing a Cardiac Surgeon to implant your pacemaker versus the competition’s? Not much from where I sit.

hahahha. Yeah, hospitals order pacers out of a catalog. Man, I don't know what type of "device sales" you started at (maybe selling gloves), but you don't know jack about it. I used to work for a major device company and we didn't have one GPO contract, not one. I set price, worked to get devices approved to be used in the ORs, got surgeons to use them, and came in for the cases. Sometimes to BS, sometimes to show off my latest toy, and sometimes to tell the surgeon how to use it.

 

[Anonymous]

hahahha. Yeah, hospitals order pacers out of a catalog. Man, I don't know what type of "device sales" you started at (maybe selling gloves), but you don't know jack about it. I used to work for a major device company and we didn't have one GPO contract, not one. I set price, worked to get devices approved to be used in the ORs, got surgeons to use them, and came in for the cases. Sometimes to BS, sometimes to show off my latest toy, and sometimes to tell the surgeon how to use it.

I didn’t say pacemakers were ordered through a GPO I sai the T & C’s were already in place by the GPO and they place the order through an inside sales rep which is very common in device and equipment. What do you think the Medtronic rep as pacemaker stocked in their garage? Yes some devices go through the rep and are physically come from the company but the vast majority of devices, supplies, and equipment purchases at a hospital go through a medical distributor.

I was an RT and sold CT/MR for GE. Oh and BTW I had an inside sales rep who handled on the add on’s, service contracts, applicators and the like. I also worked for Varian selling Linac’s and the same holds true in that setting. I’m not sure what device you sold that you negotiated T & C’s on each purchase but it must have been for a niche therapeutic area as better than 90% of T & C’s are set by the GPO like Broadlane, Healthtrust, etc. or negotiated by someone much higher on the foodchain at the company than a sales rep, at a contracted price for a set period of time for all hospitals in the network. Smith and Nephew, Cook, Stryker, KCI, Medtronic, just to name a few of the companies that have contracted T & C’s through GPO’s. If you don’t know this than you know zero about this business.

Really, nothing is bought by catalog? Then why does every single device and equipment rep bring me a new catalog at the beginning of each year with updated order/product codes and pricing? Why do I get the courtesy call from the inside sales rep to see if I received my new catalog. Why when we meet with our GPO reps do they ask us if we received their new catalog and price increases, etc. You probably sold some bootleg handheld intra-esophageal x-ray unit or something like that.

Seriously what did you sell that you negotiated T & C’s on each unit? It sure as hell wasn't pacemakers!

 

[Anonymous]

I didn’t say pacemakers were ordered through a GPO I sai the T & C’s were already in place by the GPO and they place the order through an inside sales rep which is very common in device and equipment. What do you think the Medtronic rep as pacemaker stocked in their garage? Yes some devices go through the rep and are physically come from the company but the vast majority of devices, supplies, and equipment purchases at a hospital go through a medical distributor.

I was an RT and sold CT/MR for GE. Oh and BTW I had an inside sales rep who handled on the add on’s, service contracts, applicators and the like. I also worked for Varian selling Linac’s and the same holds true in that setting. I’m not sure what device you sold that you negotiated T & C’s on each purchase but it must have been for a niche therapeutic area as better than 90% of T & C’s are set by the GPO like Broadlane, Healthtrust, etc. or negotiated by someone much higher on the foodchain at the company than a sales rep, at a contracted price for a set period of time for all hospitals in the network. Smith and Nephew, Cook, Stryker, KCI, Medtronic, just to name a few of the companies that have contracted T & C’s through GPO’s. If you don’t know this than you know zero about this business.

Really, nothing is bought by catalog? Then why does every single device and equipment rep bring me a new catalog at the beginning of each year with updated order/product codes and pricing? Why do I get the courtesy call from the inside sales rep to see if I received my new catalog. Why when we meet with our GPO reps do they ask us if we received their new catalog and price increases, etc. You probably sold some bootleg handheld intra-esophageal x-ray unit or something like that.

Seriously what did you sell that you negotiated T & C’s on each unit? It sure as hell wasn't pacemakers!

I didn't negotiate terms and conditions, I negotiated price. I negotiated price yearly with my clients (I did, not someone above me). The companies I worked for had pretty standard terms and conditions. Every once in a while, I'd have to offer extended terms to spread out the cost of a big piece of capital.

Sure, I had catalogs and I gave one to every materials guy in the ORs. I was thrilled when they called up and ordered something out of it straight from customer service, because then they paid list.

I worked for two device companies, one of which was Medtronic.

and BTW, have you ever looked in a CRDM rep's trunk? It is literally filled with 50k worth of product. Any implant rep usually has trunk stock worth more than the car they are driving. So, to answer your question "What do you think the Medtronic rep has pacemaker stocked in their garage?" the answer is YES, they do.

And so does the Kyphon rep, the Danek rep, the neurostim rep.

 

[thehairyfiddler]

Where did I say Oncology reps won't be here? I said no such thing. I said, if you think what is happening to Big Pharma won't happen to you "speciality" reps you are deluding yourself.

Everything you "speciality reps" say about yourselves, those primary care reps you have disdain for said about themselves prior to the blood letting.

Big Pharma thought they were bullet proof too. You think you are bullet proof. You think that governments are going to continue to pay for $80,000 therapies. If you think that then you aren't paying attention. Governments are strapped for cash and they will cut because they have no choice. Sure the people will bitch, but they should have thought of that before they let the gobblement pay for their healthcare.

Physicians make fewer and fewer decisions when it comes to drug therapy. That is a fact. Yes, oncology to date has largely been spared. But, do you really think that will continue? DId any physician ever believe that they would be told what they can write and for whom? But, they eventually accepted their fate. They had no choice. Oncologists will be no different. I don't know when it will happen, but I can 100% guarentee it will happen. It is the only way socialized medicine works

Well stated Curly. Very well stated in fact.

Wherby specialty reps are a little bit higher on the totem pole. their sanctimonious attitude is laughable. They bring nothing to the table either.

In the age of the internet and even i-phone software, ohysicians can get unbiased and medically sound advice when prescribing any med.

This would include, but is not limited to efficacy, dosing, estimated results, percentage play of success and drug interactions.

What galls me....oncology reps. They are grossly overpaid....and the Genotechs of the world don't even understand it.

Oncology is NOT practiced by "off label" usages either. That's bullshit. As a former cancer patient, I did all the research on my treatments prior to the concoction of selected chemo.

Morbidity and mortality data are available....and no oncologist is going to kisten to a fuckin suit monkey when prescribing things like adriomyacin bleomyocin, or vinblastine.

It is true that oncology "sales reps" will continue to exist, but their pay should be chopped to to 40K a year....because to the physicains, they aren't worth a dime more.

 

[Anonymous]

Well stated Curly. Very well stated in fact.

Wherby specialty reps are a little bit higher on the totem pole. their sanctimonious attitude is laughable. They bring nothing to the table either.

In the age of the internet and even i-phone software, ohysicians can get unbiased and medically sound advice when prescribing any med.

This would include, but is not limited to efficacy, dosing, estimated results, percentage play of success and drug interactions.

What galls me....oncology reps. They are grossly overpaid....and the Genotechs of the world don't even understand it.

Oncology is NOT practiced by "off label" usages either. That's bullshit. As a former cancer patient, I did all the research on my treatments prior to the concoction of selected chemo.

Morbidity and mortality data are available....and no oncologist is going to kisten to a fuckin suit monkey when prescribing things like adriomyacin bleomyocin, or vinblastine.

It is true that oncology "sales reps" will continue to exist, but their pay should be chopped to to 40K a year....because to the physicains, they aren't worth a dime more.

Spoken like a person who knows nothing of the commercial side of oncology!

Isn’t it funny that ALL oncology companies, even big pharma units, like Pfizer, Novartis, GSK, all the way down to the little biotech’s, pay a premium for experienced oncology reps? Umm wonder why that is? We don’t have a union forcing them to pay us like this. With all the PC reps out of work clearly they could lay off all the tenured oncology reps who make a lot more money, and backfill them with much cheaper former PC reps. I wonder why they aren’t doing that? I wonder why even when big pharma’s who buy smaller oncology companies do everything in their power to retain the reps. Why is that? Someone must see a value in the experience of a tenured oncology rep. Maybe oncology is a lot more complex than you are giving it credit for. Maybe the relationships that oncology reps have developed over the years thus gaining them access to many “no see” accounts is of value to companies. Maybe understanding a complex reimbursement model is of value. Maybe being able to hold a conversation on a complex scientific level with an oncologists about a tumor type and treatment unrelated to the drug you sell is of value. I mean really if it is how you say it is than why wouldn’t these companies cut bait now and make a lot more money? We all know how profit driven the evil drug companies are. Umm maybe because people a lot smarter than you have done the research to see that having experienced, highly trained oncology reps does have value and brings in increased revenue. That the oncologists do not respond well to the Big Pharma PC care “sales model” and want to talk to someone who speaks their language. That at adboard after adboard the oncologists always say they will keep seeing the reps who are intelligent, highly trained, and know what they are talking about. One more thing the community oncologists is nary an “expert” in any tumor type like say an academic oncologists. The community guys, even with all the technology, rely on reps to provide data. They don’t have the time to do pub med searches all day an night. Time and time again, even with recent (young) fellows they state the value in the oncology rep bringing them articles they may have otherwise never found, especially in the smaller tumor types outside of breast, lung, prostate, and CRC. You think a community guy is up on all the options in sarcoma? Think again.

Here’s the thing I, like most reps started in PC and worked my way up. I know what the mass market, sample job, detail rep job is. You however never worked a day in oncology so you have zero idea of what you speak.

Here, read this article. It gives you an abbreviated glimpse into the differences between a sample detail rep and an oncology rep. It won’t change your mind on the compensation of an oncology rep, but it will at least hip you to what the job looks like.

Enjoy!

http://pharmrep.findpharma.com/phar.../ArticleStandard/Article/detail/545083?ref=25

PS at least man or women up and admit you were wrong that no oncology reps make $175K

PSS Just like “overpaid” actors and “overpaid” athletes…they aren’t getting overpaid because the studio or franchise can’t afford it. We are all worth what someone is willing to pay us and for the last 25 years the drug companies have deemed oncology reps worth it!

Nice to use two very old an non promoted chemo agents. Most promoted agents are targeted therapies and yes the doc listen and listen good especially to new agents and new indications.

Lastly, no one ever said oncology drugs aren’t used off label. What was said is that reps are not promoting it off label. They don’t need to. And no 95% of oncology drugs are not used off label. Unless you have a compendia listing most payers will not pay for off label uses outside of a commercial drug clinical trial.


And in the immortals words of some rapper I’m sure I’ve never heard of, “don’t hate the player,…hate the game!

 

[Anonymous]

Listen up annonymous cunt....post a link where drug reps....any drug rep makes 175K. Until you do....you lose...vershtay?



Hairy, Yet another proof source that there are drug reps out there who make $175K a year.

From the Fortune Top 100 companies to work for:

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/bestcompanies/2011/snapshots/56.html


Millennium: The Takeda Oncology Co.

Avg. annual pay
Most common job (salaried):
Sr Oncology Sales Specialist $166,354

Well if the average is $166K top performers are making north of $175K

You must hate being this wrong…

So keep on hating and keep on dropping off your samples or whatever it is that you do…

 

[Anonymous]

Ah so Hairy is a SSRI rep for Effexor XR at Wyeth…wow so very complex! Freaking loser! Your vershtay drop and your cancer treatment story out’ed you, you freaking simpleton!

I’m done with you little boy. You are a sample closet SSRI rep and you're trying to tell anyone how oncology sales works because you were a patient!!! HAHAHAHAHA!!!

You are a tool bag of the highest magnitude. Nothing more than a big pharma, SSRI sample dropper who’s depressed that oncology reps probably make double what you make, thus forcing you to take Lexapro to cope, but in the end destroyed your life!!! Genius!!!

From a Hairy post when he was still “anonymous”. Google vershtay and you will find this café pharma post: http://www.cafepharma.com/boards/showthread.php?t=85866 post #9.

Hairy writes,

“Hey coolaid drinking "lexapro is hot shit" asshole. I never complained about the side effects of adriamiacin, bleomiacin, vinblastine or decarbazone. Nor the 3600 rads of localized radiation to the neck. These drugs saved my life, vershtay? Lexapro has destroyed not only my life, but tens of thousands of others. Google Lex W/D symptoms.

Side effects? are we talking nausea, slight dizziness, flatulance, slight headache? No. we're talking brain freeze, migrain and electrical zaps hundreds of times a day.

But your management/trainers never mentioned this too you now did they.

FUCK YOU!!

If you enjoy selling a drug that causes permanent problems for people. go for it.

Forget management and Trainers. they have never prescribed and followed patients. No physician I have called on has had issues anywhere near the others like paxil and effexor that have much shorter Half lives and have been sued for being addictive. I don't drop bagels, I don't whore signature in fact if my DM didn't witness my success and the time that I get with my doctors, Not getting sigs just for samples sake I would probably be in trouble for my low sample percentage. Fortunately he sees thru the corporate bs and wants results not signatures. That being the truth it is not unheard of to suffer discontinuation symptoms when on any sri. not sure of your dose, how they attempted to titrate down or if you decided on your own to just quit taking it. My guess from your vitriol is you are the type (from your posts) that knows better than your doctors, and quit cold turkey.
btw did this happen when you found out you weren't going to be promoting ,sampling or even manufacturing your weight gain drug at GSK? you know the one Paxil CantRemove?

 

[Anonymous]

Could you pathetic idiots drop it already? Nobody cares about your rep compensation banter. And Hairy Balls or whatever your name is-you seem to be quite the tool.

Shut up already

Thank You

 

[Anonymous]

Hey Hairy.

Do you have a preferred brand of box cutter you use to break down your sample boxes? What about the name tag? Are you a shirt pocket or on the tie guy? Lastly how often do you need to replace those cute trunk flap, pants protectors with your product name on it? Twice a year or do they last for an entire year?

Thanks!

 

[thehairyfiddler]

Ah so Hairy is a SSRI rep for Effexor XR at Wyeth…wow so very complex! Freaking loser! Your vershtay drop and your cancer treatment story out’ed you, you freaking simpleton!

I’m done with you little boy. You are a sample closet SSRI rep and you're trying to tell anyone how oncology sales works because you were a patient!!! HAHAHAHAHA!!!

You are a tool bag of the highest magnitude. Nothing more than a big pharma, SSRI sample dropper who’s depressed that oncology reps probably make double what you make, thus forcing you to take Lexapro to cope, but in the end destroyed your life!!! Genius!!!

From a Hairy post when he was still “anonymous”. Google vershtay and you will find this café pharma post: http://www.cafepharma.com/boards/showthread.php?t=85866 post #9.

Hairy writes,

“Hey coolaid drinking "lexapro is hot shit" asshole. I never complained about the side effects of adriamiacin, bleomiacin, vinblastine or decarbazone. Nor the 3600 rads of localized radiation to the neck. These drugs saved my life, vershtay? Lexapro has destroyed not only my life, but tens of thousands of others. Google Lex W/D symptoms.

Side effects? are we talking nausea, slight dizziness, flatulance, slight headache? No. we're talking brain freeze, migrain and electrical zaps hundreds of times a day.

But your management/trainers never mentioned this too you now did they.

FUCK YOU!!

If you enjoy selling a drug that causes permanent problems for people. go for it.

Forget management and Trainers. they have never prescribed and followed patients. No physician I have called on has had issues anywhere near the others like paxil and effexor that have much shorter Half lives and have been sued for being addictive. I don't drop bagels, I don't whore signature in fact if my DM didn't witness my success and the time that I get with my doctors, Not getting sigs just for samples sake I would probably be in trouble for my low sample percentage. Fortunately he sees thru the corporate bs and wants results not signatures. That being the truth it is not unheard of to suffer discontinuation symptoms when on any sri. not sure of your dose, how they attempted to titrate down or if you decided on your own to just quit taking it. My guess from your vitriol is you are the type (from your posts) that knows better than your doctors, and quit cold turkey.
btw did this happen when you found out you weren't going to be promoting ,sampling or even manufacturing your weight gain drug at GSK? you know the one Paxil CantRemove?

LOLOLOLOL at you!! What a fuggin douchebag you are. You google "vershtay" in order to track me? Are you fuggin kidding me? Look...I know my words of wisdom are such an important part of your life...but come on man....use your time more wisely...life is too short, Weiner.

To you and the other cancer monkey suiters that have given me a great big laugh on this thread.....go ahead and tell me exactly what you do that warrants a 6 figure income.

Tick....tock...tick...tock.,

I got all week.

As for selling SSRI's.....or any other antidepressant.....never have. I will say this though....Lexapro is garbage drug....from personal experience.

 

[Anonymous]

At 47, I am sitting on about $3 million in various investment and retirement accounts. Chicks dig me. Life is good.

 

[Anonymous]

43 & 47
Combined
401k $290k
Savings $20k
Stocks $10k
Equity $210
No Debt

 

[Anonymous]

http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=oncology+Pharmaceutical+Sales+Representative&l1=


Average oncology sales rep salary - $117K

It says $106k

 

[Anonymous]

The place we live in now is a condo and we can rent it out for more than our monthly payments (mortgage, tax, ins, condo fees). We would not make much on it (maybe $200 a month). The plan would be to keep it as a rental property. It's in a city and rentals have always done well (historically over the last 10-15 yrs). The renters would hopefully finish paying off the mortgage, then everything else is gravy.

I know there is always the risk it is vacant for a little while and I'd be prepared to eat those months. Selling it right now doesn't make sense. I would only get about 1/3 of the equity back that I've paid into it. I don't need the money out of it to buy our next place, so why take the huge loss. Especially being in a good rental area.

It would be basically part of my retirement plan. I don't want to put my entire retirement plan in the market. I think it might be a good idea to have some other lines of income set up. I just look at the people who are trying to retire now and had everything in the market.....they can't retire because it evaporated over night.

Sorry to hear about your loss of equity. But not selling it now or not selling it now, based on what you paid for it, has nothing to do with the future. The question is, for having a 2nd residence, what will your assets do for you in the future? What you already paid in the past is called a sunk cost. It means past decisions don't determine best future decisions.

If you have a house that's now valued at $100k, you either have a house for $100k or you can see it and have it in cash for $100k. Either way, you still have assets of equal value. It doesn't matter what you paid for it in the past.

The question is "where should I have my assets to meet my future goals." Having it in real estate, with a 2nd residence, is an undiversified portfolio. It also brings a lot of headaches and risk of no residents.

Perhaps that $100k will grow more in the next ten years in stocks. Would you rather have $100k grow to $200k in ten years or have a house valued at $100k grow to a value of $150k in 10 years. I'll take the cash value.

I'm not saying one path is more certain than another. I'm saying that you've already eaten your loss on the property value. You have either eaten it on paper or eaten it in real cash.