Good Old Days

anonymous

Guest
FROM HR FILES 1984 Compliance statement Abbott Labs edited for CP
I began working in the industry 30 years ago, when it was easy, easy to bribe docs to use your drug, easy to make money, easy to do whatever you wanted to do. The stories I could tell you... For example:I didn't give a shit how smart or stupid a doctor was. I was given a territory that belonged to me in which to sell my product, and within that territory there were smart doctors, there were good doctors, and there were honest doctors, but the ones that I made a much better than average living on were the busy doctors that didn't give two shits about their patients and wanted something from me. On the books we all followed the rules; we had usual and appropriate expenses to do our job, but the reality was that we did what we had to do to sell our drug. Thursday was a usual night out for me with Dr. What he lacked in medical knowledge was more than made up for by his street smarts. He knew how to play the game and we did well by each other. He wrote tons of prescriptions and in return I gave him tons of samples that I later learned he sold to patients, and other perks.On paper we were having a round table discussion on some medical topic with a bunch of doctors, but in reality it was a night out with Dr who brought along his brother, his barber, his accountant, and a few of his other buddies. Including. the $1,000 fee for Dr ( for a talk that he, understandably, never gave) the night cost me almost $2,000 dollars -- well worth it because the following week I counted over 30 new prescriptions for my product. Oh I didn't tell you, but most big pharmaceutical companies purchase a list from a company that monitors doctor's prescriptions. It tells them exactly how many prescriptions a doctor writes for each product. If you think this sounds crazy, the next week he told me to go to his favorite restaurant, leave my credit card there , and he would take care of the rest – which he did by running up a tab for another two grand. Dont think for a moment the big shot doctors werent whores too; don’t be naive. Some of these assholes are bigger whores than Dr and they make a shit-load more money for their services. I get a call from my manager, Dr a big time professor of Medicine, who was part of the FDA board that approved our drug, is coming to town to give talks to the doctors in the area. At $3,000 dollars a night and another $3,000 to give a talk in the local hospitals each day, this elite doctor can take home $30,000 dollars in a week’s time. Hey, Dr just got a thousand bucks once or twice a month and free meals for himself and his buddies.I've taken docs to strip clubs,. Who hasnt? But I found a nice long massage, with happy ending, was far more cost effective, and I enjoyed it much more as well. Again, the people that run these places are not stupid, they accept American Express and the services aren’t billed to Mrs. Wong's massage palace. They usually have some kind of restaurant Doing Business As name. Anyway, as you can see. I've got so many I could write about but the one that always comes to mind is the following. I called on one particular doctor for years and I guess we even became friends. It's hard to say what a friend is in this business because every good rep knows that if you get a doctor to like you then the doc is more likely to write scripts. This guy was really weird and claimed to be a general in the military reserve. He was a great customer until about a year ago when he claimed his practice had slowed down, but I learned that day that this married doctor was banging a rep and that that rep was my competition. Not only was he having sex with her, he was writing lots of scripts for her product, paying for her apartment, and the lease on her car.But now he needed me, and sadly, he called one of his only friends (again I still am not sure if I was truly a friend of his or just a savvy salesperson). He needed me to drive him to her house (his seventy-thousand dollar car would be too conspicuous) to see if she was home with someone else. We drove to an area in the Bronx, NY, to an area that was quite intimidating, especially since it was 2:00 A.M., and the few people who were out walked with ataxia from whatever they had smoked or injected or drank that day.She lived on the second floor, just ten feet or so above the sidewalk, her windows barred to discourage unwanted visitors. You could almost see through the window from across the street. He was too afraid to go to the door, as was I, and so he called her number, no one answered. I wanted to go home, to get out of there before some NYC cop arrested us for soliciting drugs or something (who else would be parked at this hour but instead Dr.opened a small case he had brought with him, and strapped what turned out to be night vision goggles to his head. He claimed it was a gift from an Iraqi general. He called his paramour several more times and watched through his goggles until he saw the image of a man get up and walk to the window. Case Closed. This doctor who cheated his patients, his wife, his children, and even me, was himself a victim.
 












What a depressing post. I think you presented the worst of the worst, but I don't doubt the truth of these tales. As someone in the trenches, I'll admit that drug reps can be persistent. Probably some of the best salespeople ever, but that's a problem when people's lives are at stake. The last time I spoke to one, honestly, was when he told me he knew how many rx of x drug I had written (I don't even know that myself). I was shocked and scared. The university where I trained (I think all universities now) and the clinic where I work have completely banned reps for several years now. I don't miss them. We also have a policy against samples. The only time in my training and practice when I appreciated samples was when I took care of the uninsured and homeless. Samples were better than nothing, but created a problem when they were no longer supplied. I personally prescribe generics 100% of the time, when available. There is no reason not to...btw I love Abbv stock!
 






Good old days when drug reps were sometimes called into the examination room (as “experts”) to inform the patients about the drug directly. And the device reps experienced a surprisingly intimate level of involvement in patient care, often selling medical devices in the operating room, while the surgery was going on.Aside from learning about their profession, We trained these reps who back then understood classic psychological persuasion strategies, and how they employed them in a sophisticated and intuitive manner. One clever tactic we used was to hire physicians to give a brief lecture to other physicians about a drug. Now, they really didn’t care what the audience took from the lecture, but were actually interested in what the act of giving the lecture did to the speaker himself. They found that after giving a short lecture about the benefits of a drug, the speaker would begin to believe his own words and soon prescribe accordingly. Psychological studies show that people quickly start believing whatever comes out of their own mouths, even when they are paid to say it. This is a clear case of cognitive dissonance at play; doctors reason that if they are touting this drug, they must believe in it themselves — and so their beliefs alter to align with their speech.The reps employed other tricks like switching on and off various accents, personalities, political affiliations, and basically served as persuasion machines (they may have mentioned the word “chameleon”). They were great at putting doctors at ease, relating to them as similar working people who go deep-sea fishing or play baseball together. They used these shared experiences to develop an understanding that the physicians write prescriptions for their “friends.” The physicians, of course, did not think that they were compromising their values when they were out shooting the breeze with the drug reps.I was recently at a conference for the American Medical Association, where I gave a lecture about conflicts of interest. Interestingly, the lecture just before me was by a representative from a device company that created brain implants. In his lecture he made the case for selling devices in the operating room because doctors could need help learning how to use the device. And in order to fight conflicts of interest, the company no longer takes physicians to Hawaii for their annual conferences — and instead they have their conference in Wisconsin.
 






I doubt either thread is true, but what is true; Money=Greed=Corruption. Patient's best interest, be damned. it's sad profit and bonus trump everything else. Buy me lunch, buy my staff coffee, doughnuts. Pay me to speak, money under the table works as well.
Teaching institutions are leading the charge; this "Sales" is doomed.
 






What a depressing post. I think you presented the worst of the worst, but I don't doubt the truth of these tales. As someone in the trenches, I'll admit that drug reps can be persistent. Probably some of the best salespeople ever, but that's a problem when people's lives are at stake. The last time I spoke to one, honestly, was when he told me he knew how many rx of x drug I had written (I don't even know that myself). I was shocked and scared. The university where I trained (I think all universities now) and the clinic where I work have completely banned reps for several years now. I don't miss them. We also have a policy against samples. The only time in my training and practice when I appreciated samples was when I took care of the uninsured and homeless. Samples were better than nothing, but created a problem when they were no longer supplied. I personally prescribe generics 100% of the time, when available. There is no reason not to...btw I love Abbv stock!

Why the heck are you trolling in CP? Don’t you have patients to take care of?
You BSer
 






Good old days when drug reps were sometimes called into the examination room (as “experts”) to inform the patients about the drug directly. And the device reps experienced a surprisingly intimate level of involvement in patient care, often selling medical devices in the operating room, while the surgery was going on.Aside from learning about their profession, We trained these reps who back then understood classic psychological persuasion strategies, and how they employed them in a sophisticated and intuitive manner. One clever tactic we used was to hire physicians to give a brief lecture to other physicians about a drug. Now, they really didn’t care what the audience took from the lecture, but were actually interested in what the act of giving the lecture did to the speaker himself. They found that after giving a short lecture about the benefits of a drug, the speaker would begin to believe his own words and soon prescribe accordingly. Psychological studies show that people quickly start believing whatever comes out of their own mouths, even when they are paid to say it. This is a clear case of cognitive dissonance at play; doctors reason that if they are touting this drug, they must believe in it themselves — and so their beliefs alter to align with their speech.The reps employed other tricks like switching on and off various accents, personalities, political affiliations, and basically served as persuasion machines (they may have mentioned the word “chameleon”). They were great at putting doctors at ease, relating to them as similar working people who go deep-sea fishing or play baseball together. They used these shared experiences to develop an understanding that the physicians write prescriptions for their “friends.” The physicians, of course, did not think that they were compromising their values when they were out shooting the breeze with the drug reps.I was recently at a conference for the American Medical Association, where I gave a lecture about conflicts of interest. Interestingly, the lecture just before me was by a representative from a device company that created brain implants. In his lecture he made the case for selling devices in the operating room because doctors could need help learning how to use the device. And in order to fight conflicts of interest, the company no longer takes physicians to Hawaii for their annual conferences — and instead they have their conference in Wisconsin.

Yes, we were all highly trained in espionage too. Just call us 007.
Nobody is buying your “insights”
Shut up
 






im a drug Rep with over 30 years experience. I completely believe the above post because they are true. It is exactly like that and worse. Read the book, "Dreamland" its about how we but mostly the Doctors caused the opioid epidemic. We ran over everyone for a buck and that's a fact.
 
























sure, The secret is not a secret at all, do everything they ask you to do but do it proactively before it's due. Be an asset to your company and remember as long as the company prospers you prosper. Do the best you can do every day, and don't question authority, they don't like it won't put up with it.
Control your sales so you stay in the top 1/3 of the company, its the sweet spot.
 






sure, The secret is not a secret at all, do everything they ask you to do but do it proactively before it's due. Be an asset to your company and remember as long as the company prospers you prosper. Do the best you can do every day, and don't question authority, they don't like it won't put up with it.
Control your sales so you stay in the top 1/3 of the company, its the sweet spot.
 






sure, The secret is not a secret at all, do everything they ask you to do but do it proactively before it's due. Be an asset to your company and remember as long as the company prospers you prosper. Do the best you can do every day, and don't question authority, they don't like it won't put up with it.
Control your sales so you stay in the top 1/3 of the company, its the sweet spot.

LOL
 






im a drug Rep with over 30 years experience. I completely believe the above post because they are true. It is exactly like that and worse. Read the book, "Dreamland" its about how we but mostly the Doctors caused the opioid epidemic. We ran over everyone for a buck and that's a fact.

We? Who’s we? You are speaking for yourself right? Because I’ve never sold a pain pill in my 22 years in the industry. I’ve never taken a Dr out to a strip club or done anything mentioned on this rambling, insulting crap of a thread. Must have been in the 1950’s-1970’s.
 






We? Who’s we? You are speaking for yourself right? Because I’ve never sold a pain pill in my 22 years in the industry. I’ve never taken a Dr out to a strip club or done anything mentioned on this rambling, insulting crap of a thread. Must have been in the 1950’s-1970’s.
No and I'm speaking to you either Snowflake,
You did not sell opioids but if you did you would know that the 80-90 into the 00 has been exactly what we are accused of, we did all the bad stuff we are accused of,that right.
We moved drugs, we sold narcotics to anyone who would write them and we did anything it took to get it done. It all came down from home office in winks and nods and it is what it is.
So listen to me Snowflake, wake up and don't act stupid.
 






No and I'm speaking to you either Snowflake,
You did not sell opioids but if you did you would know that the 80-90 into the 00 has been exactly what we are accused of, we did all the bad stuff we are accused of,that right.
We moved drugs, we sold narcotics to anyone who would write them and we did anything it took to get it done. It all came down from home office in winks and nods and it is what it is.
So listen to me Snowflake, wake up and don't act stupid.

Dear Mr Guilt Ridden,

Again dumbass-
YOU did, not we, not me, YOU did this. I’m not accused of anything.
 






No and I'm speaking to you either Snowflake,
You did not sell opioids but if you did you would know that the 80-90 into the 00 has been exactly what we are accused of, we did all the bad stuff we are accused of,that right.
We moved drugs, we sold narcotics to anyone who would write them and we did anything it took to get it done. It all came down from home office in winks and nods and it is what it is.
So listen to me Snowflake, wake up and don't act stupid.

Why are you on the Bayer thread? Why don’t you go post on Endo, Depomed or Purdue? They seem a more appropriate target for harrasment since they actually sell Narcotics. Fentynal, Vicodin, Oxy. and Percocet. Go spread the guilt where it’s due.
 






im a drug Rep with over 30 years experience. I completely believe the above post because they are true. It is exactly like that and worse. Read the book, "Dreamland" its about how we but mostly the Doctors caused the opioid epidemic. We ran over everyone for a buck and that's a fact.


I've been a rep and a DM since the 70's and feel terrible about all the poison we either sold or gave out as samples. Yes the BS artists here who say they never did it are LIARs !!!!! You all did it and should be ashamed you sold your soul for some gold.

As a DM facing retirement I have urged my reps to avoid handing out the bad stuff and not doing personal favors for the docs to make a sale. This is another trend that has gotten out of control over the years. Especially with the open sex inducements to meet your numbers.

Shame on you who deny and lie. You all are guilty !