Embarrassed to be in pharma

Quote
Anonymous said:
I hear you loud and clear...have my reunion coming up and am dreading the question...i guess i am gonna just say "medical sales" and pray that it goes no further than that...the problem is i have been in pharma sales so long that i can't really get out...(Although i will probably be pushed out soon cuz I am pushing 50, and have been in this game too long.) not sure how the hell i am going to make a living after this? Quiznos may be my only option...or some other dopey franchise "job-in-a-box."
Click to expand...

glad to hear I am not alone. Good luck with the reunion.
 




Anonymous said:
I'm so embarassed to be in this industry that when faced with the inevitable, "So what are you doing for a living these days?" question at my recent high school reunion, I said "Sales and Real Estate". I'm a landlord on the side, and pharma makes up about 90% of my income, but I would only elaborate on the real estate. I probably earn more than 80% of my graduating class, but I keep this gig on the down low.
Click to expand...

How would you like to be a female working for one of those sleazy "ed" ad cos (Pfizer,Bayer or Lilly) and be hit with "so, how are those 4 hour erections doing for your bottom line"?
 




Vagitarian said:
20 something years ago when I signed on, a friend of a friend had just declared bankruptcy as a Real Estate agent. I was happy to have this job

Two years ago, the same guy was making $300K to 400K per yr as a Real Estate agent. I thought this job sucked and wished I was an Real Estate agent.

Today, I'm happy to have this job and glad I'm not a Real Estate agent.

It's kind of like that story about the tortoise and the hare.
Click to expand...

If he was not making close to $300K two years ago pushing overpriced houses in that market, flippin' burgers would likely be a challenge.

Even a scarecrow from Oz should have been clearing closer to $500K a few years ago.

No way he would average that over long hall either. Foreclosure momentum has barley kicked into to gear.....and it will!
 




Anonymous said:
As a doc who occasionally visits this board, you all should not be as as ashamed of yourselves as your companies. I just got "detailed" by the Imitrex rep about their "new and improved" drug which is much, much, more expensive and has Imitrex AND naprosyn combined! WOW! I had trouble controlling myself!

This has got to be humiliating for the reps! I felt sorry for them.

Have the companies no shame what-so-ever?

(And I know I will soon be seeing patients referred to me who are now taking this GREAT new and expensive drug!)

For shame, on the company and the stupid doctors! But not on you guys, but what are you going to do.
Click to expand...


It is humiliating! Pfizer's, Caduet an expensive drug. Less expensive to go to Walmart and buy a generic statin and generic calcium channel blocker.

When products are getting ready to go generic, the companies come up with all kinds of "revival" products. If Drs. can't read right through this...then they need to go back to medical school.

By the way, medical schools, these days, are doing a better job at teaching residents deceptive marketing techniques of the pharmacuetical companies.
That's a very good thing.
 




Anonymous said:
I do not admit to strangers that I am employeed by a drug company. Why? National and local news media have criticized drug ads which border on the unethical (if not illegal) several times lately. That is troubling enough in itself but most friends are more than fed up and disgusted by the 24/7 cheesy/sleezy "ED" ads blasting from TV with their "4 hour erection" warnings, esp parents who cannot watch TV without explaining what the above means. Many say they never watch TV with guests now.

When I began work in this field, it was an admired profession by health care professionals as well as the general public. After the sales and marketing hucksters took over from ethical management , the industry has gone down the tubes. Oh, the hiring of ex cheerleaders , car rental folks,etc, who can barely spell pharmaceutical, to promote the product has not helped the image either. Just last week a leading national talk show host was making jokes about the pharma cheerleaders.

I never thought when I was hired that I would ever be placed in the huckster category. Really sad.
Click to expand...

Your post really hit home last evening as we were entertaining friends and the evening news came on. About half way through, the cheesy Bayer Levitra ad came on and no one reacted until the voice warning about "4 hour erections' blasted through. We all pretended to not hear it. Guess what? Five mins later the same ad followed about 5 mins later by the cheesy Cialis ad by Lilly! What a bunch of "used car huckster types", as you said!

I now agree with the many posters who say this industry has "gone to the huckster/hawker S&M teams". Note: S&M has more than one meaning. Do the pharma sales and marketing folks fit that category also?
 








Here's an idea for all of you drug reps who find it difficult to do your job and be seen by a physician. Why don't you start trying to be a resource to them instead of just a detailer or sample dropper. Take pride in what you are doing...that is if you have any pride in what you are selling...and find out what they need from you. Create a way for them to talk to you on their own time through your own message board or something. They can drop questions or comments to you when they are online and you can respond back when you are...it doesn't have to be real time.

For example, if you are peddling diabetes meds why not ask a doctor for five minutes to talk about what you could do for him/her that would make their job easier. What are the three biggest obstacles they face when dealing with diabetic patients or patients that are border line. Then figure out a way to help them. Maybe it's sponsoring a health fair at a community center or place of worship if the doc tells you they are having trouble reaching patients because there is a trust issue.

Ok, it's more work on your part but if you really believe in what you do isn't it worth it? My clients are busy too and don't have time to sit with me while I rattle off all the features and benefits of my service, but they have all the time in the world to talk to me when I'm helping them solve their problems.

I can't wait to hear the flack I get for this one...but understand this comes from many conversations with docs and nurse practitioners who tell me constantly they value the information drug companies can provide. Real info that helps them do their jobs.
 




Anonymous said:
Here's an idea for all of you drug reps who find it difficult to do your job and be seen by a physician. Why don't you start trying to be a resource to them instead of just a detailer or sample dropper. Take pride in what you are doing...that is if you have any pride in what you are selling...and find out what they need from you. Create a way for them to talk to you on their own time through your own message board or something. They can drop questions or comments to you when they are online and you can respond back when you are...it doesn't have to be real time.

For example, if you are peddling diabetes meds why not ask a doctor for five minutes to talk about what you could do for him/her that would make their job easier. What are the three biggest obstacles they face when dealing with diabetic patients or patients that are border line. Then figure out a way to help them. Maybe it's sponsoring a health fair at a community center or place of worship if the doc tells you they are having trouble reaching patients because there is a trust issue.

Ok, it's more work on your part but if you really believe in what you do isn't it worth it? My clients are busy too and don't have time to sit with me while I rattle off all the features and benefits of my service, but they have all the time in the world to talk to me when I'm helping them solve their problems.

I can't wait to hear the flack I get for this one...but understand this comes from many conversations with docs and nurse practitioners who tell me constantly they value the information drug companies can provide. Real info that helps them do their jobs.
Click to expand...

Ok. I agree with the premise that we need to be more than just detailers. I think we all would like to be a "resource" to our docs. The problem is that other than "sponsoring" an event, there is not much else we can legally do. And that points to much deeper problems in the industry. The traditional sales model does not work anymore. Just going in with features and benefits of our drugs is not what offices want. That's if you're lucky enough to get in there in the first place.

I think this is the main quandry. We all recognize that we need to provide value. OK then---How? The industry is so regulated, we really can't do anything of value. I think the most valuable service to a doc would be to sit at a desk and do prior auth's all day. But obvoiusly we can't do that. Need to get those sigs. And please, nobody respond about the valuable information they give there customers. Most docs don't see value there.

I don't have the answer. But I get frustrated when I hear companies say we need to be a resource to our customers. Very easy to say but hard to do unless you can give examples of bringing value to an office.
 




Every dam day, I'm inservicing staff. It may not be Pharma code or FDA perfect but I never ever discuss off label uses of my product. However, I do break down my product and the disease state into many, tiny learning opportunites. My drug is not patient friendly, but I have done inservices on pathophys, minimizing risks, various study designs and what they mean, basic statistical measurements used in clinicals (you would be surprised how many doctors and nurses do not really understand what they are reading or how to interpret the charts), nursing considerations regarding my product, QI issues and process improvements or 6 Sigma or how the future of healthcare. You don't have to stand there and talk about your product or bad mouth a competitor, you could actually learn something in your free time and then pay it forward. Just saying.
 




Anonymous said:
Every dam day, I'm inservicing staff. It may not be Pharma code or FDA perfect but I never ever discuss off label uses of my product. However, I do break down my product and the disease state into many, tiny learning opportunites. My drug is not patient friendly, but I have done inservices on pathophys, minimizing risks, various study designs and what they mean, basic statistical measurements used in clinicals (you would be surprised how many doctors and nurses do not really understand what they are reading or how to interpret the charts), nursing considerations regarding my product, QI issues and process improvements or 6 Sigma or how the future of healthcare. You don't have to stand there and talk about your product or bad mouth a competitor, you could actually learn something in your free time and then pay it forward. Just saying.
Click to expand...

I wish I had your territory. Most of my docs would run for the hills if they saw you coming.
 




Anonymous said:
There are worse things than being a pharma rep. Think about it. You are not selling beer, cigarettes, things to hurt people. Who cares what people think. If you are really trying to make a difference out there, are you really doing something wrong? Your perception is based upon what you want it to be. If you are ashamed, fine, change your line of work you will be better off..but there are a lot worse things that you can be doing.
Click to expand...

Do you actually believe that pharma executives have any purpose other than selling pills regardless of benefit? How many me too drugs, isomers, metabolites, indications are created to extend patents and increase profits.
 




Anonymous said:
Your post really hit home last evening as we were entertaining friends and the evening news came on. About half way through, the cheesy Bayer Levitra ad came on and no one reacted until the voice warning about "4 hour erections' blasted through. We all pretended to not hear it. Guess what? Five mins later the same ad followed about 5 mins later by the cheesy Cialis ad by Lilly! What a bunch of "used car huckster types", as you said!

I now agree with the many posters who say this industry has "gone to the huckster/hawker S&M teams". Note: S&M has more than one meaning. Do the pharma sales and marketing folks fit that category also?
Click to expand...

Our job would be looked upon as a greatly respected profession if we could rid ourselves of the "hucksters" in sales and marketing!
 




Anonymous said:
Every dam day, I'm inservicing staff. It may not be Pharma code or FDA perfect but I never ever discuss off label uses of my product. However, I do break down my product and the disease state into many, tiny learning opportunites. My drug is not patient friendly, but I have done inservices on pathophys, minimizing risks, various study designs and what they mean, basic statistical measurements used in clinicals (you would be surprised how many doctors and nurses do not really understand what they are reading or how to interpret the charts), nursing considerations regarding my product, QI issues and process improvements or 6 Sigma or how the future of healthcare. You don't have to stand there and talk about your product or bad mouth a competitor, you could actually learn something in your free time and then pay it forward. Just saying.
Click to expand...

Every "dam" day?
 




Anonymous said:
Every dam day, I'm inservicing staff. It may not be Pharma code or FDA perfect but I never ever discuss off label uses of my product. However, I do break down my product and the disease state into many, tiny learning opportunites. My drug is not patient friendly, but I have done inservices on pathophys, minimizing risks, various study designs and what they mean, basic statistical measurements used in clinicals (you would be surprised how many doctors and nurses do not really understand what they are reading or how to interpret the charts), nursing considerations regarding my product, QI issues and process improvements or 6 Sigma or how the future of healthcare. You don't have to stand there and talk about your product or bad mouth a competitor, you could actually learn something in your free time and then pay it forward. Just saying.
Click to expand...

"Dam" day? Do you work at a dam?
 












I don't now where to start....

Personally, I really like many of the reps that call on me during the day; it gives me a nice break from patients. Does it sometimes get a bit overwhelming to see soooo many reps at times?--yes, but if the visit has to be super-quick they understand (heck, they would probably be somewhere else anyway). Quite a few have come to be pretty good friends. I hear stories about how badly they are treated in other offices, and it makes me mad. A LOT of docs out there are real a-holes (I occasionally have to interact with them too).

I know I'm in a minority, but I like the DTC ads. If it wasn't for patients hearing how important it is to take their diabetes, or hypertension, or lipid meds (...etc.) day after day on TV, I would be the only one who told them (and I only see them every few months). They frequently have relatives/neighbors/coworkers telling them that they "don't need to take that medicine". It's nice to have some counterbalance from somewhere--even a commercial--people listen to TV.

It is VERY sad that rules and regulations have cut into the industry so dramatically that actually being able to "add value" is now being discouraged at the highest levels. I feel for the reps nowadays--your jobs are hard. I wouldn't last a full day. I am sure that I would end up telling the first jackass doc who disresprected me on a sales call exactly where he/she could go--end of job. I also wouldn't take any crap from somebody in the parking lot or lobby who wanted to tell me what they thought about my job (I set patients in my office straight in no uncertain terms as to exactly where those coupons/vouchers/samples come from). My skin isn't thick enough for your job.

My favorite reps are not merely dropping samples. We have some meaningful product dialogue as well as talking about vacations and such. I especially value out-of-the-office time (dinners/programs/happy hours)--seems like some of that's going away now.

Keep your heads held high. You (most of you) are providing a service...a service I respect. I just wish to hell your own industry did too.
 




Anonymous said:
I hear you loud and clear...have my reunion coming up and am dreading the question...i guess i am gonna just say "medical sales" and pray that it goes no further than that...the problem is i have been in pharma sales so long that i can't really get out...(Although i will probably be pushed out soon cuz I am pushing 50, and have been in this game too long.) not sure how the hell i am going to make a living after this? Quiznos may be my only option...or some other dopey franchise "job-in-a-box."
Click to expand...
At least you make more then 80% of your former classmates.
 




I only spent a few years in pharma and hated it. I was a glorified caterer and hated that docs looked at me like a robot spewing BS that I learned in training-which I was and know it. Thankfully I had real sales experience and went into outside sales in a different industry for several years. Long story short, I ended up making a transition to HR and now recruit outside sales people nationwide for my company. I get resumes all day long from mortgage/real estate/pharma and I won't touch them! Its not sales-marketing maybe-but not sales. The problem for me is you really have to sell in my company-you don't fill a bin and ask for sig. A large part of the pharma reps out there work 9-3 and coast by on big names. Many will deny and attack that statement but its true. I need someone who wants to work 8-5 in the field and impact the buyers. My point is that pharma reps make great money for what they do. If you hate it, be prepared to make less until you prove yourself. Otherwise, stay where you are b/c there are very few employers that respect what you do and don't want "caterers". When I left pharma-by choice- I was making low 80s. I took a 30k pay cut just to get out. I'm still not back there but close and I love what I do and don't dread telling people about it. This isn't an attack on current reps-just simple truth!
 




Anonymous said:
You can more-or-less pinpoint the decline of the pharmaceutical sales rep profession to the day that the first DTC advertising for prescription drugs started.
Click to expand...

Here is another good example in todays news:



Glaxo's HIV-Drug Ads Draw Critics

[These ads are a sign of desperation insofar as GILD has eaten GSK’s lunch in the HIV market (#msg-26915314).]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121961241070167309.html

›By JEANNE WHALEN
August 25, 2008

GlaxoSmithKline PLC, one of the biggest sellers of drugs to fight the AIDS virus, is drawing criticism over magazine ads in the U.S. that patient-support groups say attempt to scare patients away from trying newer drug regimens.

Bob Huff, antiretroviral project director at Treatment Action Group, an advocacy group in New York, says he complained to Glaxo a few months ago about an ad that shows shark-infested waters with the message: "Don't take a chance -- stick with the HIV medicine that's working for you." Mr. Huff calls the ad offensive and aimed at instilling fear in patients. The ads carry Glaxo's logo but don't promote specific drugs.

In another ad in Poz, a monthly magazine for patients infected with AIDS, Glaxo promotes its protease inhibitor Lexiva and advises patients to ask their doctor, "Will the HIV medicine make my skin or eyes turn yellow?" Other protease inhibitors have been associated with that side effect.

The AIDS Healthcare Foundation, a nonprofit group in Los Angeles that provides health care to patients who test positive for HIV, the human immunodeficiency virus that causes AIDS, says it sent a letter last month to the Department of Health and Human Services complaining about Glaxo's advertisements. The group says it hasn't yet received a response.

A spokesman for HHS said the department hadn't received the letter.

Glaxo says the ads are "educational" and appropriate. "While we acknowledge that some people may find the headline and imagery of the materials to be provocative, GSK stands firmly behind the ads and their underlying message: Patients considering changing HIV therapy ought to consult closely with their physician to fully understand the near and potential long-term health implications of such changes," Marc Meachem, a company spokesman, said in an emailed statement.

The ads are part of a larger trend of drug companies taking aim at rival HIV drugs, hinting at side effects and other drawbacks, experts say.

Among other controversial campaigns, a recent print ad from Bristol-Myers Squibb shows an image of a toilet and says, "Ask your doctor if there are HIV medications with a low risk of diarrhea." That is a side effect associated with the HIV drug Kaletra made by Abbott Laboratories. Bristol-Myers' antiviral drug Reyataz isn't commonly associated with diarrhea. Brian Henry, a spokesman for Bristol-Myers, said the ad is appropriate. Abbott spokeswoman Melissa Brotz said "Kaletra has a well-established side-effect profile and profound and sustained effectiveness in combating HIV."

Such comparison ads are common elsewhere. But the pharmaceutical industry traditionally sold HIV drugs with images of hope and by explaining the benefits of their treatments. The tough new tack has some patient groups unsettled, saying it could scare off patients.

A development fueling the sharp-elbows advertising: The market for HIV medicines has grown crowded, and companies want to protect their market share. [Moreover, the immense success of newer drugs has turned AIDS into a chronic condition, which raises the stakes for brand-switching.]

"Treatments have become so comparable, so [companies] are really trying to split hairs to have a marketing advantage," says Regan Hoffman, editor of Poz, which has a circulation of 150,000. Ads for HIV treatments usually run in magazines that focus on the disease, or sometimes on billboards and street posters.

Glaxo is one of the world's biggest sellers of HIV drugs, but its medicines are relatively old and losing market share. Its share of the $11 billion global market has fallen sharply in recent years, to about 25% today from about 39% in 2004, according to IMS Health. [See the annotations in the prologue to this post.] During that time, Glaxo launched few new HIV treatments.

Some of Glaxo's biggest HIV drugs, including Combivir and Trizivir, have been losing ground to newer treatments such as Truvada from Gilead Sciences Inc. and Atripla from Gilead and Bristol-Myers Squibb Co. AIDS groups say Glaxo's ads appear aimed at stopping patients from abandoning Glaxo drugs for others.

Dan Kuritzkes, a professor at Harvard Medical School who also treats HIV-positive patients at Brigham & Women's Hospital in Boston, says he worries that the shark ads "scare patients into resisting their doctor's advice."

Glaxo's Mr. Meachem says this isn't the case. The advertising is "just as likely to encourage a patient to stay with another medicine as it is one of our own, assuming that the medicine is working for a patient and is well-tolerated," he says.

However, Mr. Meachem says he is aware of the groups' concerns. The shark-themed ad campaign "ends this September, and, as always, we will take all the community feedback we have received into consideration for future campaigns," he says.‹
 




Top Bottom
Back
Quote