Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Cost

[Anonymous]

Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

Huh? Do you really work here?

Yes. Why? I am in the Midwest.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

As a vaccine rep I can tell you you are wrong. They dont split up the vaccines for profit- they lose money doing it that way- it is for safety and for the patients benefit.

You make us all look silly in the industry posting - and you dont even understand why they want to do a series in some older colonoscopy patients? You must be OBR.

Young man...you worship your customers and think they are gods.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

I totally agree that physicians who game the system to maximize profit are bad for providers (and patients) overall. My point was that general expenses and regulations are driving up the costs to practice while third party payers are driving down the amount they will pay. It's hard to make economics like that work for all that long.

Pharma, on the other hand, is in business to produce profits for shareholders. They have very little interest (as a shareholder value driven industry) to charge a price for their product commensurate with its benefits. Which is the crux of the argument in favor of generics that work over branded me-too, newer to market therapies.

Great post. That last bit is essentially EXACTLY what Pearlmutter said in his Town Hall. He laid out the argument to get away from the me-too drugs and any that have generic competition. I wasn't sure bringing him back was a smart idea but he's at least making sense right out of the gate which is more than Peter Kim ever did!

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

You couldnt be more wrong and ignorant. But I admire your juvenile attempt to make it seem like its all about the money. You have no idea what you are talking about. Some of what you said that is for profit actually cuts it in half. But this is why we dont listen to you any more- your info is misleading at best and often just wrong. Thanks for the laugh. Good luck.

Sorry but we had a large group of cardiologists that resisted the use of statins until the very end. Until the local newspaper pointed out they were doing way more heart cath. than the nation. In my book that is about money when they were doing it more than Mayo Clinic. Those phone calls from doctors asking for donations were for real. I answered them. Upgrading the kitchen at the clinic. Sponsoring one moron for golf charity. CEO asking for free samples. Asking me if I could go get a new fax machine since other reps did it for this key office before. Making a doctor a speaker or he would rally his friends not to use our products.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

I totally agree that physicians who game the system to maximize profit are bad for providers (and patients) overall. My point was that general expenses and regulations are driving up the costs to practice while third party payers are driving down the amount they will pay. It's hard to make economics like that work for all that long.

Pharma, on the other hand, is in business to produce profits for shareholders. They have very little interest (as a shareholder value driven industry) to charge a price for their product commensurate with its benefits. Which is the crux of the argument in favor of generics that work over branded me-too, newer to market therapies.

Companies like Merck and Pfizer have to do the research and come up with a new drug. There is always the risk of failures which are plentiful. Then you try to recoup the investment and of course make some $$ too. Generic manufacturers only have to wait for the patents to expire and produce copies. Of course the overheads are much less and the generics are less expensive. They are not here to serve mankind but to make $$ too. Pharma has to take more risk. Generic companies do not have as much risks to worry about. BTW, they have shareholders too. Both have their niches and I would not say who is holier than the other. If Merck did not discover the molecule of lisinopril (Zestril, Prinivil) there would not be a $4 per month of generic lisinopril from India available at your local pharmacy.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

Sorry but we had a large group of cardiologists that resisted the use of statins until the very end. Until the local newspaper pointed out they were doing way more heart cath. than the nation. In my book that is about money when they were doing it more than Mayo Clinic. Those phone calls from doctors asking for donations were for real. I answered them. Upgrading the kitchen at the clinic. Sponsoring one moron for golf charity. CEO asking for free samples. Asking me if I could go get a new fax machine since other reps did it for this key office before. Making a doctor a speaker or he would rally his friends not to use our products.

I have witnessed these types of behavior by medical "professionals" for thirty plus years. There are rotten apples in every barrel medicine not excluded.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

Companies like Merck and Pfizer have to do the research and come up with a new drug. There is always the risk of failures which are plentiful. Then you try to recoup the investment and of course make some $$ too. Generic manufacturers only have to wait for the patents to expire and produce copies. Of course the overheads are much less and the generics are less expensive. They are not here to serve mankind but to make $$ too. Pharma has to take more risk. Generic companies do not have as much risks to worry about. BTW, they have shareholders too. Both have their niches and I would not say who is holier than the other. If Merck did not discover the molecule of lisinopril (Zestril, Prinivil) there would not be a $4 per month of generic lisinopril from India available at your local pharmacy.

Not saying generics don't have share holders or are holier than thou. Big Pharma knows exactly how long a patent lasts and they raise prices for the branded drug for no other reason than to make obscene profits and meet market expectations. If a generic needs to meet/beat the Street they have to do it the old fashioned way - cut operating costs.

The only reason Merck has been relegated to doing such is despite raising drug prices they have yet to find another molecule for market. Drug companies are developing branded therapies for ailments already well served by generics. They need to find novel treatments for unmet needs - which used to be Merck's credo. No payer or patient should be buying a branded me-too if an effective generic is available. Pharma had their bite at that profit apple.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

We need to weed out some of the worthless speakers. Egomaniac fat cats working the system and milking the cow...

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

Not saying generics don't have share holders or are holier than thou. Big Pharma knows exactly how long a patent lasts and they raise prices for the branded drug for no other reason than to make obscene profits and meet market expectations. If a generic needs to meet/beat the Street they have to do it the old fashioned way - cut operating costs.

The only reason Merck has been relegated to doing such is despite raising drug prices they have yet to find another molecule for market. Drug companies are developing branded therapies for ailments already well served by generics. They need to find novel treatments for unmet needs - which used to be Merck's credo. No payer or patient should be buying a branded me-too if an effective generic is available. Pharma had their bite at that profit apple.

If everyone stopped at H2 blockers we would never see PPIs. I doubt you'll see too much R&D here anymore with PPIs available as generics.

If everyone stop at beta blockers or say diuretics we would never see ACEIs. You and I will be taking our HCTZ several times a day and pee often.

Most smart drug companies are working on newer disease areas and it is getting hard to come up with good therapy. You can do a Google search and see how many times Merck has failed in finding a HIV vaccine.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

We need to weed out some of the worthless speakers. Egomaniac fat cats working the system and milking the cow...

We have a group of IMs here that control several hospital P&T committees and other committees. Every time we have a new drug they would ask us to make them speakers or nothing will be done in this town. Other docs are not very happy with this group but they have enough power that most companies have to play or die.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

If everyone stopped at H2 blockers we would never see PPIs. I doubt you'll see too much R&D here anymore with PPIs available as generics.

If everyone stop at beta blockers or say diuretics we would never see ACEIs. You and I will be taking our HCTZ several times a day and pee often.

Most smart drug companies are working on newer disease areas and it is getting hard to come up with good therapy. You can do a Google search and see how many times Merck has failed in finding a HIV vaccine.

And even though it failed all those times it still managed to turn a profit, pay its executives quite handsomely and up its dividend. I'm not sure i see your point.

The argument that Big Pharma has that it needs to charge extortionate prices for drugs so it can find the next life saving/changing therapy has its limits.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

We have a group of IMs here that control several hospital P&T committees and other committees. Every time we have a new drug they would ask us to make them speakers or nothing will be done in this town. Other docs are not very happy with this group but they have enough power that most companies have to play or die.

These types of big shots give medicine a bad name...another reason why the spotlight is on the doctors and some of their greedy, self-serving tactics. Their patients wouldn't be happy to know they play hardball with business to pad their already overstuffed tuffets!

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

Speakers need to be conforming to their contract..Speak for an hour or more then questions and real discussion on topic till time to go home. Follow the contract. Nothing less or no payment and no feed bag!

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

Don't you find it strange that a thread that started out with post regarding a scientific quantitative study published in a peer reviewed journal that is sponsored by the nation's second largest organization representing professional medical board certified specialists that basically proves that our profession not only adds very little value to patient's health but influences docs to spend resources on expensive drugs that could be spent else where so that we are also detrimental to the US Healthcare System, quickly degenerates to subject matter that means nothing to that subject?

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

Don't you find it strange that a thread that started out with post regarding a scientific quantitative study published in a peer reviewed journal that is sponsored by the nation's second largest organization representing professional medical board certified specialists that basically proves that our profession not only adds very little value to patient's health but influences docs to spend resources on expensive drugs that could be spent else where so that we are also detrimental to the US Healthcare System, quickly degenerates to subject matter that means nothing to that subject?

Does anyone realize that this article as published with the tags "Ethics" and "Conflicts of Interest"?

One of the articles in the reference was from a Journal entitled "The Annals of Family Medicine".

"The Annals of Family Medicine is a new peer-reviewed research journal to meet the needs of scientists, practitioners, policymakers, and the patients and communities they serve."

Sponsoring Organizations

The Annals of Family Medicine is a collaborative effort of seven family medicine organizations:

American Academy of Family Physicians (AAFP)
American Board of Family Medicine (ABFM)
Society of Teachers of Family Medicine (STFM)
Association of Departments of Family Medicine (ADFM)
Association of Family Medicine Residency Directors (AFMRD)
North American Primary Care Research Group (NAPCRG)
College of Family Physicians of Canada (CFPC)

The paper

"The Company We Keep: Why Physicians Should Refuse to See Pharmaceutical Representatives

Whether physicians ought to interact with pharmaceutical sales representatives (reps) is a question worthy of careful ethical analysis. The issue presents a challenge to both professional integrity and time management. Empirical data suggest that interactions with pharmaceutical reps increase the chances that the physician will act contrary to duties owed to the patient. Ideally, a physician might both interact with reps and also do the research necessary to counteract the commercial bias in their messages. But a physician who actually did that research would, in turn, be devoting a good deal of time that might better be spent in other activities. The counterargument, that one is obligated to see representatives to obtain free samples to best serve one’s patients, can be shown in most practice settings not to be compelling. Physicians ought to refuse to visit with representatives as a matter of both professional integrity and sensible time management."

Received for publication March 4, 2004.
Revision received March 29, 2004.
Accepted for publication May 17, 2005.
© 2005 Annals of Family Medicine, Inc.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

Every industry has reps. Reps help customers to cut though mounds of information and focus on solid options...In the case of medicine physicians don't try new medications without sufficient information. The clincher is they have little time....Without reps the process would slow down to a crawl...sales would suffer, patients stick with the old and pipelines would go dry..

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

Every industry has reps. Reps help customers to cut though mounds of information and focus on solid options...In the case of medicine physicians don't try new medications without sufficient information. The clincher is they have little time....Without reps the process would slow down to a crawl...sales would suffer, patients stick with the old and pipelines would go dry..

If the FDA required the same level of proof to approve of drugs as your statement is based upon there be reps selling homeopathy treatments. Your statement is refuted by emperical evidence from a scientific, quantitative study published in a peer reviewed journal sponsored by the 2nd largest professional organization of board certified MDs in the country.

The only thing more pathetic than a professional liar is one that believes thier own lies.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

If the FDA required the same level of proof to approve of drugs as your statement is based upon there be reps selling homeopathy treatments. Your statement is refuted by emperical evidence from a scientific, quantitative study published in a peer reviewed journal sponsored by the 2nd largest professional organization of board certified MDs in the country.

The only thing more pathetic than a professional liar is one that believes thier own lies.

You make no sense.

Why does the FDA of Europe approve or disapprove? Their process is very different...they have real standards too. So who are we? And how about those early meds and medical schools...think they were all about homeopathic...

Go do some reading "all about medicine 101"...more twists and turns than you know!!

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

You make no sense.

Why does the FDA of Europe approve or disapprove? Their process is very different...they have real standards too. So who are we? And how about those early meds and medical schools...think they were all about homeopathic...

Go do some reading "all about medicine 101"...more twists and turns than you know!!

"Why does the FDA of Europe approve or disapprove?" because the approval process doesn't include the same criteria as approved for purchase / use in every European nation i.e. the Europeans "license" many more drugs that they ever approve the purchase or use of.

"So who are we?" - we are the morons that spend twice as much as the Europeans (including drugs) to get the same results. And one of the reasons is that they don't have the same system of "Pharma Reps" who lie to Docs to get them to prescribe over priced branded drugs when much cheaper generics will do.

PS - the "FDA of Europe" is called the "European Medicines Agency". Maybe its you that should take "all about medecine 101"?

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

One thing about this thread is for sure - Merck is about to reap the benefits of its title (i.e., cutting the cost of reps!).