Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Cost

Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

Life is not that simple. Who has to spend the big $ to research and discover that new drug? Certainly not the generic companies. We have to recoup the money spent and then people complain. You cannot have the latest and don't want to pay a dime for it. Americans are spoiled. I myself am taking both Merck branded drugs and generics. Both have their places. Why generic companies are so profitable and doing a lot of M&A? They don't have to spend much in R&D.

From an earlier post

"The reason why Pharma bought into the ACA (Obama Care) was that the data just presented in the study above is well known and will be ever more discussed at the time goes on. And, there are no tradeoffs to the Healthcare system if these costs for drugs are cut. But you say, well profits are required to develop new drugs? In the study it was found that 73% of the drugs in the cabinet had Generic replacements. And, it takes what, about 15-20 years to bring a new drug to the market? So for at least 10-15 years before that period Pharmas were using their profit to develop and license drugs that they KNEW would be only treatments for drugs already treated by Generics then, for the next 15-20 years they still failed to develop new drugs while continueing to manipulate the medical system in order to get Docs to spend more on their branded drugs rather than write scripts for Generics that would have had the same effects. The only trade-offs will be, over a period of time, a significant reduction in Pharma revenues and profits and since Pharma has used those profits over they last 30-40 years to mostly develop branded drugs to compete with generics the US market will not lose any drug development from which we will benefit. Pharmas backed the ACA because they new that the easiest, and painless spending to cut (painful only to them and to the extent that they can make policians feel through lobbying) is cutting spending on Pharma products and this simply delays that while they continue to milk immoral and unethical profits from the US Healthcare market."
 




Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

Most of the pills you push are much like party favors for patients. Maybe help a little, patients want a little bag of free stuff. The older meds work just as well for most people.

Bingo! You got it...

Those "other meds" were once non-generic. Can't you remember? They were once party favors in the past. Brought to you by your rep of the day.

Teach your patients how not to need any drugs. Then you get the golden trophy....

What will you do when insurance companies pay only when you keep the patients well..off drugs and out of the hospital? Study up...start hitting those books.....you've got a lot to learn.

Sick patients will mean no pay for you.

Wise up...this is the next scenario coming to medicine...
 




Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

Please dont associate your ilk with doctors and those that save lives. You are snake oil salesmen.

As one doctor said, "Hey, I am in this the same reason as you...to make money to feed my family."

Then the chief of staff said, "Why do you guys have to make me sign all these forms in order to pay me honorarium to speak...can you just give me cash!"

Or as my family said, "What we do is not science but an art and sometimes it is a guessing game."

Don't worship yourself.
 




Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

Doc...would you throw all your tools away? This industry and others, like the food industry, equipment makers and others have a whopper to do with your success in caring for patients...Sure bet you need your tools. You're not Houdini; they're not evil.

BTW...I think there might be some research going on with some kind of snack oil... :)

Instead of prescribing an ARB or ACE for a newly diagnosed hypertensive patient, he is going to recommend blood letting, followed by a chanting, then weekly visit to a sauna.

We make him look good with our products.

Imagine a doc treating GERD without a PPI? Go drink a gallon of milk and eat more chalk!
 




Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

Um, last I checked, the expectation is that drug companies have the patent years to recoup their costs. Not to mention they raise the costs of the branded drugs pretty much every year, sometimes more than once a year. Did Singulair's raw material costs skyrocket the last year it was on patent? No, they did not. So why did the price get raised? Oh, to rake in the last bits of outrageous profit you'd like people to believe is actually the drug's research costs. Puh-leaz.

Now you have paid off your medical school loan, may be mortgage, and may be wife #2 or #3, should you see patients for free now? Now why not? Drug companies have made their fortune with their patented products and now they are generic.

Honestly, doctors these days are commodity items except a few specialists. You shop for them with coupons. You check their ratings. If I have to pay for my visit I want a nice and courteous doctor, not some fat snob with bad manners. I shop for a doctor like picking a restaurant.

Did tongue depressors from China go up in price last year? Are you guys really paying those medical assistants that much more this year? Then why the cost of an office call is up? Please spare me. May be the cost of that silly white lab coat has gone up then.
 




Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

Now you have paid off your medical school loan, may be mortgage, and may be wife #2 or #3, should you see patients for free now? Now why not? Drug companies have made their fortune with their patented products and now they are generic.

Honestly, doctors these days are commodity items except a few specialists. You shop for them with coupons. You check their ratings. If I have to pay for my visit I want a nice and courteous doctor, not some fat snob with bad manners. I shop for a doctor like picking a restaurant.

Did tongue depressors from China go up in price last year? Are you guys really paying those medical assistants that much more this year? Then why the cost of an office call is up? Please spare me. May be the cost of that silly white lab coat has gone up then.

I made the comment you responded to and I'm not a doc! However, since you brought it up, China's tongue depressors might not cost any more but malpractice insurance does - especially in a state like NJ who is in the midst of an ob/gyn crisis from it. As does the e-records systems Obamacare needs, oh, then there are the Medicare/caid and insurance reimbursements shrinking to the point where a doctor can just about break even if they are seeing a patient every 7-10 minutes.

And, just like all professions, a practioner's value increases with it experience. It does not decrease because college and life debt has been paid. Or are you the Wal-Mart shopper who would put your cardiac care or othe life saving treatment in a first year graduate's hands?
 




Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

As one doctor said, "Hey, I am in this the same reason as you...to make money to feed my family."

Then the chief of staff said, "Why do you guys have to make me sign all these forms in order to pay me honorarium to speak...can you just give me cash!"

Or as my family said, "What we do is not science but an art and sometimes it is a guessing game."

Don't worship yourself.

Honorarium to speak is the pay day the big shot docs want from pharma. Some are greedy users of the system with zero qualitative skills. All of these docs need to have the points and the managers rating them. No quality, no dough! Most of them would lose their eligibility to ride the gravy train.
 




Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

You sound like the Tea Bagger who yelled, "Keep your govt hands off of my Medicare," Read the posts above, the Fed Govt spends ~ 50% of the costs of the US Healthcare system so why should they pay your and your company for branded drugs when generics will work. Then the same goes for the other 50 percent of the market.

No, I just read and think for myself. The government significantly limits the use of me-too drugs. This makes sense because the market is also rejecting obsolete branded drugs. The need is for drugs that treat illness with limited or no options currently available. I'm not defending companies that make me-toos, they will fail just as Merck is now. But further action from the Governemnt will limit the innovation that might otherwise become available. Have you ever read Milton Friedman? Thomas Sowell? I know I'm just a right winger. Who funds the government little man? And yes I can tell you are little in all the places that matter.

One thing is for sure; we are not free to do what we want completely. But I am free thinking. You however, are a slave physically and mentally. Sad really.....
 




Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

Poster #5 & 22

Thank you for your truthful commentary.

This model is dead. And should be. It's like feeding a diabetic biggie sized value meals.

Oh, we already do that.

Go to Europe and you will not see a dozen people shopping in a mall in motorized scooters. They are for the most part healthier people seeng physicians far less, while still enjoying cheese, wine and bread.
 




Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

Poster #5 & 22

Thank you for your truthful commentary.

This model is dead. And should be. It's like feeding a diabetic biggie sized value meals.

Oh, we already do that.

Go to Europe and you will not see a dozen people shopping in a mall in motorized scooters. They are for the most part healthier people seeng physicians far less, while still enjoying cheese, wine and bread.

Most people in Europe don't eat crappy junk foods unless they give in to the temptation of US trash food imports.They know about agriculture, farming and simple old time remedies.
They walk, keep fit and they're not couch potatoes. They don't work 24/7 like in the US. That's why! Doctors are for real illness and emergencies not for a runny nose or cosmetic pampering.
 




Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

Most people in Europe don't eat crappy junk foods unless they give in to the temptation of US trash food imports.They know about agriculture, farming and simple old time remedies.
They walk, keep fit and they're not couch potatoes. They don't work 24/7 like in the US. That's why! Doctors are for real illness and emergencies not for a runny nose or cosmetic pampering.

So they are healthier and don't have an 8 to 1 ratio of Docs to Reps either so think how much money they are saving! No wonder the spend half on healthcare compared to what we do.
 




Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

I made the comment you responded to and I'm not a doc! However, since you brought it up, China's tongue depressors might not cost any more but malpractice insurance does - especially in a state like NJ who is in the midst of an ob/gyn crisis from it. As does the e-records systems Obamacare needs, oh, then there are the Medicare/caid and insurance reimbursements shrinking to the point where a doctor can just about break even if they are seeing a patient every 7-10 minutes.

And, just like all professions, a practioner's value increases with it experience. It does not decrease because college and life debt has been paid. Or are you the Wal-Mart shopper who would put your cardiac care or othe life saving treatment in a first year graduate's hands?

Still, besides cardiac care, ask an OPH why he is still charging that much for a routine cataract surgery. Or a CD doing the usual catherization. Or the GI guy doing the routine colonoscopy. I have overheard some GIs wanting to do an upper GI when patients are in for colonoscopies only. One said may as well make some extra $$ if possible. Why some doctors split up vaccination into 2 appointments? To maximize profit. I am willing to pay for experience. But I don't worship docs or see them as anointed.
 




Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

Most people in Europe don't eat crappy junk foods unless they give in to the temptation of US trash food imports.They know about agriculture, farming and simple old time remedies.
They walk, keep fit and they're not couch potatoes. They don't work 24/7 like in the US. That's why! Doctors are for real illness and emergencies not for a runny nose or cosmetic pampering.

They don't work much. They party more. They vacation a lot. That is why EU is having crisis after crisis. That is why, being so generous, some EU countries cannot pay the bills.
 




Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

So they are healthier and don't have an 8 to 1 ratio of Docs to Reps either so think how much money they are saving! No wonder the spend half on healthcare compared to what we do.

You know many doctors over there, and Canadian docs also, cannot make much due to socialized medicine and they like to come here to make a fortune? A few years ago I read in the Vancouver Sun 3/4 of their brand new neurosurgeons left for the States to practice.
 




Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

Still, besides cardiac care, ask an OPH why he is still charging that much for a routine cataract surgery. Or a CD doing the usual catherization. Or the GI guy doing the routine colonoscopy. I have overheard some GIs wanting to do an upper GI when patients are in for colonoscopies only. One said may as well make some extra $$ if possible. Why some doctors split up vaccination into 2 appointments? To maximize profit. I am willing to pay for experience. But I don't worship docs or see them as anointed.

I totally agree that physicians who game the system to maximize profit are bad for providers (and patients) overall. My point was that general expenses and regulations are driving up the costs to practice while third party payers are driving down the amount they will pay. It's hard to make economics like that work for all that long.

Pharma, on the other hand, is in business to produce profits for shareholders. They have very little interest (as a shareholder value driven industry) to charge a price for their product commensurate with its benefits. Which is the crux of the argument in favor of generics that work over branded me-too, newer to market therapies.
 




Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

Still, besides cardiac care, ask an OPH why he is still charging that much for a routine cataract surgery. Or a CD doing the usual catherization. Or the GI guy doing the routine colonoscopy. I have overheard some GIs wanting to do an upper GI when patients are in for colonoscopies only. One said may as well make some extra $$ if possible. Why some doctors split up vaccination into 2 appointments? To maximize profit. I am willing to pay for experience. But I don't worship docs or see them as anointed.

You couldnt be more wrong and ignorant. But I admire your juvenile attempt to make it seem like its all about the money. You have no idea what you are talking about. Some of what you said that is for profit actually cuts it in half. But this is why we dont listen to you any more- your info is misleading at best and often just wrong. Thanks for the laugh. Good luck.
 




Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

I totally agree that physicians who game the system to maximize profit are bad for providers (and patients) overall. My point was that general expenses and regulations are driving up the costs to practice while third party payers are driving down the amount they will pay. It's hard to make economics like that work for all that long.

Pharma, on the other hand, is in business to produce profits for shareholders. They have very little interest (as a shareholder value driven industry) to charge a price for their product commensurate with its benefits. Which is the crux of the argument in favor of generics that work over branded me-too, newer to market therapies.

you cant hardly get a brand name without first trying a generic right now! generics own 80% of all prescriptions. doctors CANT write a lot of brand name drugs already. this concern is very old and does not represent current reality. if the generics are just as good then they will take over the market. you dont need to throw out drug reps for that to happen. it will happen and is happening.
yes the companies are in business to make money. but so are the physicians and hospitals.
and it appears the docs and hospital administrators are doing WAY better than the drug reps. if you believe savings can be squeezed from pharma then you should probably agree the same savings could be squeezed from hospitals and docs. drug companies are no more exploitive than anyone else in the system. everyone is in it to make money. a lot of docs are against anything that reduces their paycheck even if it results in better outcomes for patients.
 




Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

Still, besides cardiac care, ask an OPH why he is still charging that much for a routine cataract surgery. Or a CD doing the usual catherization. Or the GI guy doing the routine colonoscopy. I have overheard some GIs wanting to do an upper GI when patients are in for colonoscopies only. One said may as well make some extra $$ if possible. Why some doctors split up vaccination into 2 appointments? To maximize profit. I am willing to pay for experience. But I don't worship docs or see them as anointed.

As a vaccine rep I can tell you you are wrong. They dont split up the vaccines for profit- they lose money doing it that way- it is for safety and for the patients benefit.

You make us all look silly in the industry posting - and you dont even understand why they want to do a series in some older colonoscopy patients? You must be OBR.
 




Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

Still, besides cardiac care, ask an OPH why he is still charging that much for a routine cataract surgery. Or a CD doing the usual catherization. Or the GI guy doing the routine colonoscopy. I have overheard some GIs wanting to do an upper GI when patients are in for colonoscopies only. One said may as well make some extra $$ if possible. Why some doctors split up vaccination into 2 appointments? To maximize profit. I am willing to pay for experience. But I don't worship docs or see them as anointed.

Huh? Do you really work here?
 




Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

As a vaccine rep I can tell you you are wrong. They dont split up the vaccines for profit- they lose money doing it that way- it is for safety and for the patients benefit.

You make us all look silly in the industry posting - and you dont even understand why they want to do a series in some older colonoscopy patients? You must be OBR.

What you said are correct. But a few of my physicians are also very creative in maximizing their profit. I have been calling on them long enough to know how they would look for any way to do it legally.

I have done enough GI preceptorships and calling on them since the Prilosec days that what I said was what they told me in private. GI doc competing against another GI doc for business. Years ago GI doc badmouthing another for screening H. Pylori for profit. Well now it is standard procedure to test for it. You are too young and naive to think all patients going in for a colonoscopy are older patients. Yes any male over 50 is recommended to get one done to screen for colon cancer. But younger folks, and one of my friends is in his 20's, go in for the procedure to rule out other possibilities such as intestinal abnormalities, GERD, ulcer, etc.

I am smarter and wealthier than you will ever be. Dream on about OBRs being a dumba**.