Amyvid!

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Anonymous said:
Why would we win 1/3 of all Alzheimer's diagnosed for a test that isn't really needed. The treatment doesn't change if someone has the symptoms of Alzheimer's whether they have it or not in the MAJORITY of cases. Obviously some case by case situations where an expensive PET scan makes sense. I see sales of this well under $100 million. Maybe 10000 tests a year (considering price and lack of coverage)- puts the drug at about 16 million a year in revenue (just above Effient USA sales...haha)
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Any way you parse it, Amyvidiot was an ill-conceived, debacle of an acquisition which will, in retrospect, make Xigris, Effient and Oraflex seem like genius blockbusters.
 












Whoa, was it me or did DR sound like he thinks this thing is a dog in that terrible voicemail? He could take some acting lessons from the likes of Mariah Carey, Madonna or the Rock. Gheesh, DR do anything next time to not sound so much like my TomTom.
 






A fresh enterprise bus will be taking select workers to the symphony at the palladum tomorrow for special concert. Riders who bring a friend will get free foot long from green and yellow business partner.
 












"Our earth shattering diagnostic wonder indicates that you may or may not have amyloid plaques which may or may not have anything to do with AD. That will be $1600.00 please. TODAY, we're running a special: it's $1599.99 + we throw in a $5-Footlong coupon."
 






So funny you people will complain about everything on this site! This is a great product that is going to help a lot of patients- it will be a nice 500 million or so per year drug. This is the start of continuous product launches and I'm excited to be part of this launch and time!
 












Anonymous said:
"Our earth shattering diagnostic wonder indicates that you may or may not have amyloid plaques which may or may not have anything to do with AD. That will be $1600.00 please. TODAY, we're running a special: it's $1599.99 + we throw in a $5-Footlong coupon."
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That's the government for you. It's a good thing doctors are very smart and willing to read between the lines for our benefit. These heroes do it every day. Wish I could say the same for our President and senators.

This is the ONLY way to see amyloid in living people, except for a brain biopsy and unless your doctor is House you are not getting one of those. Plus im sure House charges more for the biopsy. Amyvid is a major innovation and most doctors know it.
 












I can completely understand why some people take the view that they'd rather not spend money confirming a disease they don't want to have and for which there is no cure. But I think there are a few aspects that those used to selling a therapeutic may have overlooked.

Firstly, patients for whom Amyvid is relevant are symptomatic. They have something wrong with them which is what motivates them (or their loved one) to seek a consultation. Whether it's Alzheimer's, another form of dementia or some other condition, the physician will start up a diagnostic workup. The news is already likely not to be good. In this situation the patient, caregiver AND physician are looking for more information, a differential diagnosis and a strategy for a likely chronic condition. By this time, ignoring the problem and hoping it's not something bad, is unwise. If you picture yourself in the unenviable position of those experiencing dementia-like symptoms or, like most people who frequent this board, a close relative with these symptoms, you have a sense of urgency about getting an accurate read on the disease. This isn't 100% but it is a lot better than clinical diagnosis alone in some cases. Which brings me to the other reason why this test is a breakthrough:
Whilst Amyvid is not an appropriate test for people who are asymptomatic (yet), for people who present, a proportion will be told that there are no neuritic amyloid plaques and will not have to face Aricept or Namenda and may even have a condition which is not chronic and uncurable. This will be a significant minority and the costs of inappropriate treatment, side effects and unecessary hospitalization for this group will be reduced. Think about it. That is why diagnosis is an important function of our physician and why they do more than "go on a hunch"
According to the literature I have read on Amyvid since we acquired it, the proportion of patients inaccurately diagnosed, based on current expert clinical diagnostic accuracy is up to 1 in 4. In the primary care world where many people are currently diagnosed this could be over a third. This test, combined with clinical review is bound to make a hell of a difference in these cases.

I am not normally swept up by the hype that accompanies our acquisitions. They are often accompanied by broad sweeping language and optimism that is misplaced. But this one may be different. By getting all of us from R&D through to sales and marketing, to look at the healthcare business beyond the next therapeutic tweak, we can potentially catch up with where modern healthcare needs to go. I don't think this will "save Lilly" commercially, but I think as a strategic play it was a bold move and as an aid to the humanitarian crisis which Dementia presents, it is something I as a nearly 20 year Lilly veteran, am proud of.

Good luck to the AD team!
 






Anonymous said:
I can completely understand why some people take the view that they'd rather not spend money confirming a disease they don't want to have and for which there is no cure. But I think there are a few aspects that those used to selling a therapeutic may have overlooked.

Firstly, patients for whom Amyvid is relevant are symptomatic. They have something wrong with them which is what motivates them (or their loved one) to seek a consultation. Whether it's Alzheimer's, another form of dementia or some other condition, the physician will start up a diagnostic workup. The news is already likely not to be good. In this situation the patient, caregiver AND physician are looking for more information, a differential diagnosis and a strategy for a likely chronic condition. By this time, ignoring the problem and hoping it's not something bad, is unwise. If you picture yourself in the unenviable position of those experiencing dementia-like symptoms or, like most people who frequent this board, a close relative with these symptoms, you have a sense of urgency about getting an accurate read on the disease. This isn't 100% but it is a lot better than clinical diagnosis alone in some cases. Which brings me to the other reason why this test is a breakthrough:
Whilst Amyvid is not an appropriate test for people who are asymptomatic (yet), for people who present, a proportion will be told that there are no neuritic amyloid plaques and will not have to face Aricept or Namenda and may even have a condition which is not chronic and uncurable. This will be a significant minority and the costs of inappropriate treatment, side effects and unecessary hospitalization for this group will be reduced. Think about it. That is why diagnosis is an important function of our physician and why they do more than "go on a hunch"
According to the literature I have read on Amyvid since we acquired it, the proportion of patients inaccurately diagnosed, based on current expert clinical diagnostic accuracy is up to 1 in 4. In the primary care world where many people are currently diagnosed this could be over a third. This test, combined with clinical review is bound to make a hell of a difference in these cases.

I am not normally swept up by the hype that accompanies our acquisitions. They are often accompanied by broad sweeping language and optimism that is misplaced. But this one may be different. By getting all of us from R&D through to sales and marketing, to look at the healthcare business beyond the next therapeutic tweak, we can potentially catch up with where modern healthcare needs to go. I don't think this will "save Lilly" commercially, but I think as a strategic play it was a bold move and as an aid to the humanitarian crisis which Dementia presents, it is something I as a nearly 20 year Lilly veteran, am proud of.

Good luck to the AD team!
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Are you willing to pay (out of pocket )close to $8,000.00 for the information? We need to control healthcare spending. How many vaccines can be purchased for $8,000.00?
 






Anonymous said:
Are you willing to pay (out of pocket )close to $8,000.00 for the information? We need to control healthcare spending. How many vaccines can be purchased for $8,000.00?
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If you're paying $8K for this test, then I'd be willing to sell you my beautiful rolling laptop bag with a designer HP on it for only $350. If you act know, I can throw in a pack of three ballpoint black ink pens for only $20 each. You are obviously overpaying for everything.
 






Anonymous said:
I can completely understand why some people take the view that they'd rather not spend money confirming a disease they don't want to have and for which there is no cure. But I think there are a few aspects that those used to selling a therapeutic may have overlooked.

Firstly, patients for whom Amyvid is relevant are symptomatic. They have something wrong with them which is what motivates them (or their loved one) to seek a consultation. Whether it's Alzheimer's, another form of dementia or some other condition, the physician will start up a diagnostic workup. The news is already likely not to be good. In this situation the patient, caregiver AND physician are looking for more information, a differential diagnosis and a strategy for a likely chronic condition. By this time, ignoring the problem and hoping it's not something bad, is unwise. If you picture yourself in the unenviable position of those experiencing dementia-like symptoms or, like most people who frequent this board, a close relative with these symptoms, you have a sense of urgency about getting an accurate read on the disease. This isn't 100% but it is a lot better than clinical diagnosis alone in some cases. Which brings me to the other reason why this test is a breakthrough:
Whilst Amyvid is not an appropriate test for people who are asymptomatic (yet), for people who present, a proportion will be told that there are no neuritic amyloid plaques and will not have to face Aricept or Namenda and may even have a condition which is not chronic and uncurable. This will be a significant minority and the costs of inappropriate treatment, side effects and unecessary hospitalization for this group will be reduced. Think about it. That is why diagnosis is an important function of our physician and why they do more than "go on a hunch"
According to the literature I have read on Amyvid since we acquired it, the proportion of patients inaccurately diagnosed, based on current expert clinical diagnostic accuracy is up to 1 in 4. In the primary care world where many people are currently diagnosed this could be over a third. This test, combined with clinical review is bound to make a hell of a difference in these cases.

I am not normally swept up by the hype that accompanies our acquisitions. They are often accompanied by broad sweeping language and optimism that is misplaced. But this one may be different. By getting all of us from R&D through to sales and marketing, to look at the healthcare business beyond the next therapeutic tweak, we can potentially catch up with where modern healthcare needs to go. I don't think this will "save Lilly" commercially, but I think as a strategic play it was a bold move and as an aid to the humanitarian crisis which Dementia presents, it is something I as a nearly 20 year Lilly veteran, am proud of.

Good luck to the AD team!
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The problem with testing people is that 1/3 of the population has high levels of plaque and has no symptoms and never will have any symptoms or problems. 60 percent of people with dementia will have high levels of plaque and 99 percent of AD patients have high levels of plaque. So for 8 grand this test really tells you nothing- which is why it will never be covered by insurance and why it will be used in very few diagnosis. Its just not that good of a test- cool stuff but really not that important.

I don't think this will do anything to change how AD or dementia is diagnosed and unfortunately every neurologist I've talked to about it agrees (I'm in MSK and considered going over to this sales force and the only reason I didn't was because my customers didn't see a use for it).
 






Anonymous said:
The problem with testing people is that 1/3 of the population has high levels of plaque and has no symptoms and never will have any symptoms or problems. 60 percent of people with dementia will have high levels of plaque and 99 percent of AD patients have high levels of plaque. So for 8 grand this test really tells you nothing- which is why it will never be covered by insurance and why it will be used in very few diagnosis. Its just not that good of a test- cool stuff but really not that important.

I don't think this will do anything to change how AD or dementia is diagnosed and unfortunately every neurologist I've talked to about it agrees (I'm in MSK and considered going over to this sales force and the only reason I didn't was because my customers didn't see a use for it).
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I don't think you have the price right at all. I looked up the cost of a PET scan and if you add the price of the Amyvid it ain't gonna cost $8K, more like half that. Where the F did you come up with that figure!?

It's a one-off cost and given how long some patients will be on (potentially wrong) drugs, a small price to pay to improve the diagnosis. I hope you weren't dumb enough to be telling your neuro customers what you thought the price was while you were doing your market research.

I am not that surprised that neurologists you speak to don't get the product if you have not been trained to explain it. It's new information that they've never had before. You have to let them know what to do with it. This is called scientific selling, requires training and is supposed to differentiate us from those selling cars. For that reason alone, I think the Amyvid team will be glad not to have you joining them...

Having said this, I don't think Amyvid is going to be a blockbuster and I wonder whether we should be getting into this side of healthcare given how few people can get their heads round it. Better to leave it to people who know this game... We know how to deliver novel blockbuster drugs (don't we......?)
 






Anonymous said:
I don't think you have the price right at all. I looked up the cost of a PET scan and if you add the price of the Amyvid it ain't gonna cost $8K, more like half that. Where the F did you come up with that figure!?

It's a one-off cost and given how long some patients will be on (potentially wrong) drugs, a small price to pay to improve the diagnosis. I hope you weren't dumb enough to be telling your neuro customers what you thought the price was while you were doing your market research.

I am not that surprised that neurologists you speak to don't get the product if you have not been trained to explain it. It's new information that they've never had before. You have to let them know what to do with it. This is called scientific selling, requires training and is supposed to differentiate us from those selling cars. For that reason alone, I think the Amyvid team will be glad not to have you joining them...

Having said this, I don't think Amyvid is going to be a blockbuster and I wonder whether we should be getting into this side of healthcare given how few people can get their heads round it. Better to leave it to people who know this game... We know how to deliver novel blockbuster drugs (don't we......?)
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Great post. Plus I've yet to meet an MSK rep that can even promote their own products. They are the least talented reps we have and the first division that will be cut in the next reorg. It gives me a lot of confidence knowing you're out their attempting to explain Amyvid.
 






Anonymous said:
I don't think you have the price right at all. I looked up the cost of a PET scan and if you add the price of the Amyvid it ain't gonna cost $8K, more like half that. Where the F did you come up with that figure!?

It's a one-off cost and given how long some patients will be on (potentially wrong) drugs, a small price to pay to improve the diagnosis. I hope you weren't dumb enough to be telling your neuro customers what you thought the price was while you were doing your market research.

I am not that surprised that neurologists you speak to don't get the product if you have not been trained to explain it. It's new information that they've never had before. You have to let them know what to do with it. This is called scientific selling, requires training and is supposed to differentiate us from those selling cars. For that reason alone, I think the Amyvid team will be glad not to have you joining them...

Having said this, I don't think Amyvid is going to be a blockbuster and I wonder whether we should be getting into this side of healthcare given how few people can get their heads round it. Better to leave it to people who know this game... We know how to deliver novel blockbuster drugs (don't we......?)
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You know nothing of what you speak. An average PET scan is 3-6k depending on the facility. I think anyone of you idiots could explain this product- its hardly rocket science. I actually came to this board looking to research if I wanted to work at Lilly- no way now. And most if not all pharmaceutical reps aren't like car salesman- you guys don't sell anything. The only reason I considered a pharm gig is because of the base salary and the easy work hours while I finish up my masters.

Good luck on Amyvid- it won't be used!
 






Anonymous said:
Great post. Plus I've yet to meet an MSK rep that can even promote their own products. They are the least talented reps we have and the first division that will be cut in the next reorg. It gives me a lot of confidence knowing you're out their attempting to explain Amyvid.
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Ok all of MSK is bad....go back to your hole. No difference in reps in any of the divisions- ONE LILLY!
 






Anonymous said:
You know nothing of what you speak. An average PET scan is 3-6k depending on the facility. I think anyone of you idiots could explain this product- its hardly rocket science. I actually came to this board looking to research if I wanted to work at Lilly- no way now. And most if not all pharmaceutical reps aren't like car salesman- you guys don't sell anything. The only reason I considered a pharm gig is because of the base salary and the easy work hours while I finish up my masters.

Good luck on Amyvid- it won't be used!
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Hey halfwit, what is 3k if it is not somewhere around half of 8k which was the original price quoted. The price is going to vary based on whether CMS pay or whether its private pay. Either way its not a bad value compared to the 1:4 chance of being wrongly diagnosed and living with the wrong treatment for 10+ years. Worked out the cost of Aricept or Namenda for that amount of time??? Thought not...

You end up arguing exactly the point I was trying to make which makes me doubly grateful you are not coming to Lilly... We can both agree you are making a smart move...
 






Anonymous said:
Hey halfwit, what is 3k if it is not somewhere around half of 8k which was the original price quoted. The price is going to vary based on whether CMS pay or whether its private pay. Either way its not a bad value compared to the 1:4 chance of being wrongly diagnosed and living with the wrong treatment for 10+ years. Worked out the cost of Aricept or Namenda for that amount of time??? Thought not...

You end up arguing exactly the point I was trying to make which makes me doubly grateful you are not coming to Lilly... We can both agree you are making a smart move...
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Halfwit the treatment for misdiagnosis of dementia is still Aricept or Namenda- do you know anything about that disease state? Do you talk to your Dr.'s? Obviously not. Probably no access...
 






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