3 years after Merck....

[Anonymous]

In my opinion that is exactly what Merck wants. We have not had a Training department in 15 - 20 years - and it shows.

Maybe it was just all "perception" that merck reps were the best because they had all those "first in class" products. Now not so much. merck isn't just "resting on it's laurels." It looks to be permantly resting. RIP.

 

[Anonymous]

Msg for those like the OP: I am exactly you!! Except I'm in my mid-40's and still need to work. My severance pack is closely coming to an end and the thought of getting back into big pharma is making me depressed. It is so toxic! BTY, i have been interviewing and nobody wants me! i can't even get a job doing what I used to do.
Not sure what to do???!!!! I have 19+ yrs in the industry and no nothing ese. Could somebody please shed some light on a career after pharma? What skills do I transfer over to what sort of company? Please...only honest replies-I'm at the end of my rope.

Have you considered Bio-tech sales? Medical sales? Also Home Health Care Sales is getting bigger...there's always CONTRACT sales ( which I did after Merck released me ) like PDI, Quintiles. and a few others..but that's almost part-time...you sign a contract to sell a product ( or products) for a SPECIFIC amount of time- 6 mos., 1 yr.,etc...they pay either per call ( signature) or by hours logged ( with a cap, of course..)...no perqs like car, healthcare,etc....make sure you're on Linkedin, Facebook, and get job notifications from sales sites like Indeed, Salespro, Zip Recruiter,etc...also Nutriceuticals is a fast growing area..good luck...it is tough out there for those over 40-45...sell your experience, knowledge,maturity, and the fact that you KNOW YOUR TERRITORY...don't need much direction, but will take tips & recommendations from DM's always ( I hate saying that, but experienced reps are often perceived as "uncoachable".)..always research the company you are interviewing with and know the products involved...I am virtually done in Pharma...20+ years of testing & role-playing is enough like the OP said..I agree 100% with the 3 points they said about Pharma getting harder....

 

[Anonymous]

The job is TO SELL your product (s) to clinicians. You think you can talk clinical with a Cardiologist after 1-2 weeks of classroom training? You're an arrogant asshole if you think you can...we are NOT doctors. We are NOT ARNP's or PA's. We learn enough ( 99% of what I learned I NEVER used in the offices!!) to promote our products. This job is about SALES & SHOOMOZING, not clinical expertise- if you want to do that, go work in a research lab. BTW, speaking of Cardiologists, once just after I came out of training, I went to see my 1st Cardiologist. I started to ask him how he positioned Quinidine Gluconate ( an anti- arrhythmia drug) when doing an EP test, and if he thought Phase 2 of the cardiac cycle was the key to what drug he chose ( yes, believe it or not, my DM was with me and told me to ask this stupid question!!)....he stared at me and said, "kid, are you just out of sales training?" I said, "yes, last week.."...."Let me give you some advice- no OFFICE-BASED Cardiologist is interested in discussing Phase 2 of the cardiac cycle WITH A DRUG REP...If I want to discuss an EP test, I will call Dr. Jeffries at JFK Hospital, the EP doctor there. And you can go and TRY to discuss Electrophysiology with him, but I assure you, he will tear you a new one, just he always does with reps who think they can discuss this with him after 1-2 weeks of sales training"....."keep it simple, bring in samples,brochures, price info, and any news in the industry I should know about- leave the clinical talk to professionals, OK kid?"
I took his advice, and within 8 months I was # 1 in the district with Quiniglute.

A good rep knows his "stuff"..a great rep knows when not to use his "stuff" and discuss the football game yesterday, the doctor's vacation last week, and yes,what kind of dressing they like on their sandwiches. I started out full of clinical bullshit medical jargon, meant to impress. I found QUICKLY that very few wanted to be impressed with your medical rhetoric. Knowledge, YES. Information, YES. RESPECT-YES....Grilling them on your drug/why they don't write,etc...BIG NO!!!

You answered your own question. Trained well and use it when necessary. A good rep would use a different way to sell to a specialist. You look at him as a resource. You ask him to teach you more. You ask him about his views on, say, Januvia. You ask him where it may be best to use.

The problem with our Vioxx/share of voice hires was they did not build the rapport, earn the respect, and establish credibility before they became pushy and grill the docs. When the docs push back these reps also mostly don't know crap about Merck products nor any basic science. They all look good and dress well. They really ruin the profession.

 

[Anonymous]

Maybe it was just all "perception" that merck reps were the best because they had all those "first in class" products. Now not so much. merck isn't just "resting on it's laurels." It looks to be permantly resting. RIP.

I joined Merck in the 80's when we were launching a new first-in-class product practically every month. We continued that for awhile. You are right that it was perception that Merck reps brought breakthrough products. Well, I remember running into the SK&K rep with Tagamet. He did not bother to work too much. He did not bother to supply samples to all the docs that called. Tagamet was the only H2 blocker. Soon after we had Zantac, Pepcid, and Axid and all the docs got even by switching all their patients from Tagamet.

 

[Anonymous]

The job is a fraud. I don't see anyone outside of my daily lunch appointment. Neither does the rest of my lying-ass colleagues. What a bunch of phonies. I don't intend to stay in touch with any of these phonies once I leave this junkyard.

Can no one be honest here?

FU Merck

Bravo!!! Someone finally has the courage to tell it like it is...

the job is a joke people...you are a joke and you know it when you look in the mirror...

anyone that gives Merck more than a couple of hours a day in effort, is a fool...they don't care a bit about you...take there money and go to the gym or the mall....

FU MERCK!

 

[Anonymous]

Bravo!!! Someone finally has the courage to tell it like it is...

the job is a joke people...you are a joke and you know it when you look in the mirror...

anyone that gives Merck more than a couple of hours a day in effort, is a fool...they don't care a bit about you...take there money and go to the gym or the mall....

FU MERCK!

I agree with the fact that Merck does not care about you. The job has turned into a fraud over the years.

I disagree with you taking the paycheck and getting even with Merck. You should leave if you are pure as snow. I feel they pay me enough that even on a slow day I would go to Panera Bread and catch up until 5 pm before heading home.

 

[Anonymous]

I agree with the fact that Merck does not care about you. The job has turned into a fraud over the years.

I disagree with you taking the paycheck and getting even with Merck. You should leave if you are pure as snow. I feel they pay me enough that even on a slow day I would go to Panera Bread and catch up until 5 pm before heading home.

Catch up on what? your fraudulent busy work and punching in phony calls for docs you couldn't see??

Pleeezzeee...save your sanctamonius attitude...you are as dirty as the rest of them...

 

[Anonymous]

Catch up on what? your fraudulent busy work and punching in phony calls for docs you couldn't see??

Pleeezzeee...save your sanctamonius attitude...you are as dirty as the rest of them...

There are still honest Merck reps trying their best. Yes, they do not get good rating because they do not put down refusal physicians as accessible.

 

[Anonymous]

There are still honest Merck reps trying their best. Yes, they do not get good rating because they do not put down refusal physicians as accessible.

In all of my years here, I have seen only one rep speak openly about the number of physician he typically actually discusses product with-----one per day, usually at lunch. He was a great rep, very successful and well liked. Management sent in a hit man manager that pushed him out within a year.

There are no honest reps still here. Only those of us that play the game. I'm not judging.

 

[Anonymous]

You have to play the game folks…..honesty is not acceptable.

 

[Anonymous]

In all of my years here, I have seen only one rep speak openly about the number of physician he typically actually discusses product with-----one per day, usually at lunch. He was a great rep, very successful and well liked. Management sent in a hit man manager that pushed him out within a year.

There are no honest reps still here. Only those of us that play the game. I'm not judging.

Agreed. My friend in a rural territory told his manager it was not possible to make 8 calls a day. The young and smart manager came up with a routing which should make it possible. My friend said he would be driving 3-4 hours a day. Well, my friend was retired because he spoke the truth.

 

[Anonymous]

It's hard to define what is the "best" rep. The one who never even try to close on a doctor? The one that make each sales call a pure social visit? Then why we even need you?

A good rep is one that is fully knowledgeable in all the clinical studies and can engage a customer if necessary. A good rep is one who can talk study design, p value and switch to BS and go back and forth effortlessly.

If you go back a few more years then you'll notice Merck reps were seen as peer by docs, not as entertainers. Merck reps were part of the system, not caterer. Your definition of a good rep shown how much we have lowered the standard and quality of a Merck rep.

You can know all the textbooks, all the studies, all your marketing material but if you walk and in try to act like a peer to a doctor who has gone to school for sometimes 16 years, you will lose. It is insulting to most doctors to try to act like a doctor when you are not one. The key is knowing your place and having conversations on the physicians terms, most doctors hate reps trying to be know it alls and trying to tell them how to practice. JMO.

 

[Anonymous]

I always enjoyed going to meetings and watching those rookie reps with huge egos and fatheads get up and spew their knowledge of technical data. Not all rookies were this way, just the ones with huge egos. It was like they expected a cookie and pat on the head for mastering scientific jargon.

 

[Anonymous]

My old fathead CTL used to talk a good talk and tell us to have "swagger". In front of customers, his swagger did nothing to help the fact that they just don't like him as a person or a rep because he is terrible at being both. We all felt the same. He's the kind of garbage that Merck has elected to promote and retain and they are paying the price for that lack of ethos and blatant mismanagement today.

There is nothing about Merck that I miss. Nothing. My paychecks are bigger, my boss is a good person and the people I work with are genuine. In other words, it's nothing like Merck.

FU Merck

 

[Anonymous]

You can know all the textbooks, all the studies, all your marketing material but if you walk and in try to act like a peer to a doctor who has gone to school for sometimes 16 years, you will lose. It is insulting to most doctors to try to act like a doctor when you are not one. The key is knowing your place and having conversations on the physicians terms, most doctors hate reps trying to be know it alls and trying to tell them how to practice. JMO.

JMO. If you are smart enough you will know when to use your training to have a decent conversation, when to play dumb and say teach me, and when to talk BS and nothing clinical at all. You are absolutely correct in saying a rep is a fool trying to act and talk like a doctor when there is no need for it. The "peer" idea is earned, slowly over many years and you have to prove yourself.

 

[Anonymous]

My old fathead CTL used to talk a good talk and tell us to have "swagger". In front of customers, his swagger did nothing to help the fact that they just don't like him as a person or a rep because he is terrible at being both. We all felt the same. He's the kind of garbage that Merck has elected to promote and retain and they are paying the price for that lack of ethos and blatant mismanagement today.

There is nothing about Merck that I miss. Nothing. My paychecks are bigger, my boss is a good person and the people I work with are genuine. In other words, it's nothing like Merck.

FU Merck

They must have all attended the same meeting. My former manager said I need the swagger so customers will eat off my hands and beg me to give them samples to save the world.

 

[Anonymous]

My old fathead CTL used to talk a good talk and tell us to have "swagger". In front of customers, his swagger did nothing to help the fact that they just don't like him as a person or a rep because he is terrible at being both. We all felt the same. He's the kind of garbage that Merck has elected to promote and retain and they are paying the price for that lack of ethos and blatant mismanagement today.

There is nothing about Merck that I miss. Nothing. My paychecks are bigger, my boss is a good person and the people I work with are genuine. In other words, it's nothing like Merck.

FU Merck

Let me guess---- Mike George? I could vomit just thinking about him and his grotesque swagger.

 

[Anonymous]

It has been just over 3 years since Merck took over Schering-Plough, released ( polite way of saying FIRED) 2000 of us, including myself, and thus pretty much ended my pharmaceutical career. I got a very nice severance package ( about 11 months pay = $100,00+)..with that, I was able to pay off the rest of my mortgage of $13,000, pay off my credit cards ( $5000), and purchased the company Ford Escape for $12,700.

I was in my late 50’s and I knew finding a job in a business that hired young people ( 25-35) who were willing to start at much less money than myself, all worked against me. I thought I was in serious trouble both financially and emotionally..what was I going to do now? Could my wife & I make it on one salary if I couldn’t find work? How long would this severance pay last? I had been a Pharma rep for 21 years, starting with Berlex, then on to Organon ( which was purchased by Schering-Plough). Would I miss the Pharma life & culture? I am happy to say….not in the least!!!!

Pharma sales was great until COMPUTERS came into the business, around 1994-5 for most companies. After that, the bullshit started: business plans, spreadsheets, e-mails, endless & mindless lists of physician calls & market shares, RX volume.etc.,etc. If you joined this business after 1996-97, IMAGINE what it would be like to go to work, make your 8 calls a day, THEN GO HOME AND RELAX- SPEND TIME WITH YOUR FAMILY,FRIENDS,GO OUT,ETC…..No e-mails, no spreadsheets, no business plans to update, no VOICEMAIL to check, NO COMPLIANCE VIDEOS to watch- sounds AWFUL, doesn’t it?

After speaking with friends who either survived the Merck firing squad, or who went to get a job with another Pharma company, I am sooooo glad I don’t have to tolerate all the corporate bullshit and nightmare DM stories I still hear…DM’s checking to see what time you leave your house. DM’s checking what time you got your 1st signature, and last signature. Conference calls every week/ every other week ( what a waste of time that is- this business does NOT change on a week-to-week basis, so not much is so important as to require CONFERENCE CALLS!!). DM’S riding with you and constantly criticizing you, even when your numbers are great…stupid deadlines to meet on “Core Competensies”……

9 out of 10 Pharma reps believe that the Pharma industry is not doing well and maybe a dying business. 7 out of 10 are contemplating leaving the industry. The way I see it, there are 3 important factors why the Pharma industry is getting harder by the day:

1) Increasingly difficult to have meaningful interactions with doctors

About 30% of doctors no longer see reps. This rarely happened when I started..I could see 95% of my targets. As the workload increases and patient volume increases, it is becoming increasingly difficult for a rep to get a piece of the doctor’s time. Often it has become a quick signature, or just 15-20 seconds, hardly enough time to provide information to help shape or change their prescribing habits.

2) Lack of substantial value to offer doctors…hate say this guys & gals,but the fact remains that pharma reps don’t have much to offer in exchange for their time and attention. Back in the day when I started ( just after the Jurassic Period) , doctors used to rely on reps for information on the latest medications, happenings in the pharma industry, how other docs were using drugs,etc. Now, with information freely accessible through the internet, the role of the rep is becoming redundant. This makes building relationships with docs very difficult that would drive sales.

Now, with all the restrictions on off-label usage, or experimental breakthroughs for their medications, reps are now severely limited on what they can say. Now this stuff goes to the “medical liaisons”.

3) Finally..tighter controls & regulations on doctor-pharma interactions

It used to be that reps could provide various benefits and incentives such as speaking opportunities, sponsorships to conferences,etc. Now, tighter controls & regulations have made it difficult to even pick up a tab for lunch whilst with the doctor. Dinners are now almost unheard of, without a clinical presentation. I used to take out doctors ( and their wife) just to meet them, and it gave me an hour or two to get to know them and tell them about myself & my product ( s). Now you’d be fired, arrested, put on probation, who knows? Combined with point # two I mentioned above, I believe it has become increasingly difficult for doctors to see any value in entertaining reps through their doors.

I miss the docs themselves, though I still visit my favorites when I’m near by. I miss the $$, for sure. I miss the benefits, of course. And I miss our district the most. I still try to keep in touch with many, but they have another life now. No more seeing who has the answers to the tests. No more calling each other up to see what the DM is up to. No more copying each other’s business plan ideas. But I have no stress anymore. No more testing, role-playing, business plans, role-playing,conference calls, role-playing, spreadsheets, role-playing, POA’s, ride-alongs that were meaningless ( I was # 1 in my district for 66 months in a row in MS, and 27 months in a row in the region, and only rep in company history to be # 1 in both market share & volume NATIONALLY for 12 months straight- how much help does it sound like I needed??)…I am looking for something that has little stress- I’ve paid my dues in this business…gotta go to the pub & have a beer…don’t forget to communicate & check voice mail & e-mail later…

I think I know the OP and if it is who I think it is, he was the best Rep Organon ever had in WHC...his numbers gave it away..only 1 person ever put up those Nuva -Ring numbers...my DM told me he had more TRX's one quarter by himself than our ENTIRE district!! But if you heard him talk at the POA'S or Regional breakouts, you understood why he was # 1..his knowledge and enthusiasm was overwhelming...Great commentary and agree 100%...OP,you once helped me at a POA develop a dialogue to an OBG who didn't want to offer NR to patients as a first line choice...I still use your suggestions today and I'm still doing well with NR, despite Merck's total ineptness on Women's Health...when I heard you were one of the 2000 released, I thought, "my God, this rep should be IN CHARGE of WHC, not released"...Hope you are OK, and please keep posting!!

 

[Anonymous]

I loved reading your letter and I couldn't agree more. It is a shame that the current employees in pharma can't experience what we did. IN THE OLD DAYS, the position was well respected and we did contribute to physician, pharmacist, RN and patient well being.I can't envision the current reps being invited to physicians homes for lunch or dinner, physicians giving xmas gifts to us or the number of outside activities e.g. poker, hunting fishing and weekend retreats. A far different world.I like you am enjoying every minute outside of what the industry has become. My advice for these youngsters is get out and find something produtive and enjoyable - life is too short!

I would like to add to what the OP and you so eloquently stated.

We were much better trained. Or you can say Merck valued the reps more then and invested heavily in us with didactic trainings plus more. We were much more ethical and physicians respected us for that. We were like part of a health care team. Yes, the job of a rep is a dead-end one now.

 

[Anonymous]

Another huge negative that occurred after the "good old days", is that pharma companies hired way too many reps (the landscape became ridiculously crowded, with reps lining up to see docs at high volume offices....think back to the Schering-Plough 2004-2009 time period...so many reps in each territory...and all the other pharma companies were no different); AND, all those new reps were for the most part "Barbies and Kens", who were so unprofessional, both in dress as well as in behavior. They truly degraded the industry, and brought it to the shameful state that it has become. Even though multiple downsizings have occurred in more recent years, and the number of such "Barbies and Kens" have declined, the industry will never have the class that it once had. Couple that, with the "big brother" atmosphere brought on with laptops, and the micro-management that followed....and you have the destruction of what was once a classy, dignified and worthwhile profession. So glad I am no longer a part of it!

I believe at one time we had 6 or 7 reps promoting Vioxx to the same doctor. HQ kept saying some were "specialty reps" with "different" detail pieces and "special" promotional items. My doc friend said he sees the same Merck logo on the cards and does not give a shi* about the different fancy title like, "anti-inflammatory disease specialist or consultant". Then I have to work with reps who mostly look like Kens and Barbies but cannot even discuss a clinical paper. I was fighting an uphill battle trying to work like the Old Merck way. Sigh.