Why I quit using Metagenics

[Anonymous]

Re: Why I quit using Xymogen

Thanks for your indepth input Dr. Drake Kellas

Dr. Heilman- We appraciate your honesty regarding your experience with The ActivEssentials. You are the doctor and are making decisions in the best interest of your patients with the information you have.

That being said I also want to make sure your statements are based in fact. Not one of Xymogen's products has never not met label claim! Trust me when I say you would have been provided with assays showing that we in fact did not meet label claim if it were true. As far as the comments about Metagenics? I am bothered that there has been a level of unprofessional behavior on this site by both parties. It is well documented that emotions have run high at times. This site has been created to provide in depth discussion on a variety on subjects. Writing disparaging remarks about individuals is not what either company stands for.

The best of luck to you in your Functional Medicine practice. As someone mentioned earlier Xymogen has been around for just over 3 years. In that time many doctors have had tremendous experiences with many of our products and we expect to be in the industry for a long time.

For those of you that have doubt about the number of doctors that have tried and continue to use Xymogen please feel free to purchase a copy of this months Inc. 500 magazine where Xymogen was named the 4th fastest growing company in the entire healthcare industry at over 2400% growth. Competition is good people. It raises the bar for the entire industry. Despite what the emotion is between the two companies functional medicine is only begining to reach public attention. We both should begin to embrase the attention that each of us brings in different ways. I just hope people can keep their cool long enough to bring out the best in each company.

 

[Dr. Heilman]

Re: Why I quit using Xymogen

I appreciate your professional reply. A lot of posters reply with "Anonymous" as their username so it is difficult to discern one Anonymous poster from another.
In direct response to the courteous reply from this Anonymous poster. I NEVER claimed that Xymogen does not meet label claims!!! My EXACT wording was: "I will not say that Xymogen products are unsafe or do not meet label claims, but I have not had subjective feedback from my patients to support the therapeutic benefits of Xymogen products." I believe that Xymogen is working hard to create a successful product line, but I repeat that I have not had the subjective feedback from my staff, or my patients regarding their personal satisfaction with the Xymogen products.

Specifically to the ignorant individual who wanted to thank Dr. Drake Kellas for posting that message I wanted to personally thank you for providing the bloggers on here with more evidence of the depths of your immaturity and ignorance. Drake Kellas is not a Chiropractor, but has been a very informative and hard working rep for Metagenics. I have appreciated his advice, and he has increased my success in using Metagenics formulas. My Xymogen rep who was previously my Metagenics rep was also outstanding (Matt Anderson). I would classify both reps as great individuals, great reps, and would never hesitate to classify either of them as friends. Both of these reps are a benefit to their companies.

I carefully selected which products from BOTH companies to prescribe to my patients, as both reps can easily note - I can be a difficult account to manage, because I ask very tough questions regarding the products I recommend. For me, it is not about profit margins or more affordable products, but I strictly manage my recommendations on which products will provide the greatest therapeutic benefit, and greatest patient satisfaction. I think that Xymogen has certain products that I would be interested in trying patient challenges on, but I have not yet at this time.

Active Essentials Vs. Wellness Essentials are NOT equal products. The Active Essentials do not have as high of concentrations of the EPA/DHA and they do not use 5-MTHF. I'm not sure if that was what was giving my patients that extra boost or if it was some other ingredient.

Sincerely, Dr. Heilman

Dr. Heilman- We appraciate your honesty regarding your experience with The ActivEssentials. You are the doctor and are making decisions in the best interest of your patients with the information you have.

That being said I also want to make sure your statements are based in fact. Not one of Xymogen's products has never not met label claim! Trust me when I say you would have been provided with assays showing that we in fact did not meet label claim if it were true. As far as the comments about Metagenics? I am bothered that there has been a level of unprofessional behavior on this site by both parties. It is well documented that emotions have run high at times. This site has been created to provide in depth discussion on a variety on subjects. Writing disparaging remarks about individuals is not what either company stands for.

The best of luck to you in your Functional Medicine practice.

 

[Anonymous]

Dr. Heilman- I appraciate your mention of Matt Anderson as outstanding. He is a huge part of our team and a great represenatative of our company. He has contibuted to sales, marketing and fun every step of the way.

You mentioned that you prefered Wellness Essentials for the higher EPA/DHA amounts and the Acti-Folate (5-MTHF). That is ture and I respect your options regarding these formulas. In fact I questioned even bringing this up. However I might point out a few things?

Xymogen uses:

Methylcobalamine (acitve B-12) vs cyanocobalamine
Pyridoxal 5 Phospahte (P5P or active B6) vs pyridoxine hydrochloride
Riboflavin 5 Phospahte (Active B2) vs riboflavin
5-formyl tetrahydrafolate and folic acid (Active Folic acid) vs a blend of folic acid, 5-MTHF and 5-formyl tetrahydrafolate (both companies use 400mcg)
Mineral Amino Acid Chelated of Magnesium, Zinc, Selenium, Copper, Maganese, Chromium, Molybdenum, vanadium and potassium vs just chelates of Mg, Chromium, Zinc and manganese.

200 iu E of blended tocoferols vs 100 iu of just d-alpha

We use Oroxinol (6000 ORAC value anti-oxidant equal to 5-9 servings of fruits and veggies)

It may not be an issue with your patients but we use veggie caps (huge cost increase) in all the nutrient based (non EPA/DHA) capsules in this formula vs tablets.

We also have plans to use our Omega Pure 600 (600 mg of EPA/DHA) vs. Omega Pure 300 as the omega 3 source in the very near future. Wellness Essential uses 500 mg per cap. This has been something we have weighed value vs. cost and we will make the change at very little cost to patients.

I know you said price isn't an issue for your patients; but the price difference to your patients is Wellness Essentials $66.95 vs Active Essentials $45.75. Some people would say over $21.00 is a nice price break.

That being said. My goal in writting this reply was just to answer your post. As I mentioned before. You make decisions based on what you feel are the options for your patients. I was concerned when your wrote:

"But I would rather wait for a product that is going to meet label claims and that I am assured of its quality. I would rather have my flight delayed instead of a company just trying to be on-time and ignore safety".

As an owner in the Xymogen brand it is a concern that a client may have that perception. If you have a question regarding our meeting label claim please ask for an assay. If you have a concern regarding purity please ask for a C of A. But realize if you feel the best interests of your patients are met my another company? Make that choice. Thanks for being a good sport.

 

[Dr. Heilman]

That being said. My goal in writting this reply was just to answer your post. As I mentioned before. You make decisions based on what you feel are the options for your patients. I was concerned when your wrote:

"But I would rather wait for a product that is going to meet label claims and that I am assured of its quality. I would rather have my flight delayed instead of a company just trying to be on-time and ignore safety".

As an owner in the Xymogen brand it is a concern that a client may have that perception. If you have a question regarding our meeting label claim please ask for an assay. If you have a concern regarding purity please ask for a C of A. But realize if you feel the best interests of your patients are met my another company? Make that choice. Thanks for being a good sport.

To address this specific concern of yours. My claim with the flight delay analogy was specific to the complaint of product back-orders with Metagenics (which was the original post on this thread). I would rather their (Metagenics) products be on back-order than to have the product NOT meet the high quality standards that I expect my companies to provide to me or my patients.
If Xymogen had an issue with having a supply shortage, or ingredient substitutions - I would EXPECT Xymogen to freeze their production and have a back-order issue also, in order to meet label claim.
As a Chiropractor - I am DISGUSTED when I read reports of 21 out of 25 nutritional products on the market unable to meet label claims. The companies that I order from I hold to a higher standard. Thats with whatever I supply, whether it be a nutritional product, a rehabilitative product, or a pillow for that matter. If I can't trust it to go into my Mom, I won't give it to a patient.

I never made any claim of either company not being able to meet label claims.

Again I appreciate your sincere and professional reply. It is my wish that some of the posters on this board adopt your level of concern, pride, and professionalism instead of their childish playground style remarks. Reading some of the disparaging remarks regarding some Metagenics products making their anatomical regions larger, just provided the information to the rest of us that those personal regions were underdeveloped in the first place.

 

[Anonymous]

this is what you guys look like

Wow you know I was trying to find out if metagenics is good or not, as I just got some from my dad cause he didn't like taking so many different formulas after a chelation therapy doctor set him up with a whole load of them; however, after reading your posts docs and reps, I must say you all need to switch to green tea and pot instead of scotch and cocaine. Well maybe not the scotch but really I don't know who is crazier, thus I say you are all crazy. I tried some of the Metagenics formulas today a q10 and an antioxidant blend, it's ok nothing special but certainly not crappy. Just don't know why you guys put so much damn limonene in all your formulas isn't that stuff sold in big oil barrels as a degreaser ? Oh well you probably have your reasons, umm yeah I am gonna stick with source naturals I think cause whether the doctors are beings douches or not, you guys can't be saying stuff like what you are, especially on an open board like this. Either way even if your company is good as you think it is your gonna come off like some assholes. Plus if amazon has more or less quit selling your stuff its probably no good anyhow. And what there is left on there has but 1 review maybe and not even a five star rating, I don't care what a doctor says or what metagenics says, if a source naturals vitamin has over a hundred reviewers and the rating still holds strong at 5 stars it probably is pretty good. I was gonna take the stuff but now I think I'm gonna throw all that fancy ass researched stuff in the trash, maybe give it to some homeless guy. this is what you guys look like

 

[Anonymous]

Plus they don't muscle test well!

 

[Anonymous]

Wow I came on this site to do a little research about prenatal vitamins for my wife. After reading these ridiculous and unprofessional posts from supposed doctors and reps, I will not be using metagenics OR xymogen products. You people need get a life.

 

[Anonymous]

Dr. Heilman- I appraciate your mention of Matt Anderson as outstanding. He is a huge part of our team and a great represenatative of our company. He has contibuted to sales, marketing and fun every step of the way.

You mentioned that you prefered Wellness Essentials for the higher EPA/DHA amounts and the Acti-Folate (5-MTHF). That is ture and I respect your options regarding these formulas. In fact I questioned even bringing this up. However I might point out a few things?

Xymogen uses:

Methylcobalamine (acitve B-12) vs cyanocobalamine
Pyridoxal 5 Phospahte (P5P or active B6) vs pyridoxine hydrochloride
Riboflavin 5 Phospahte (Active B2) vs riboflavin
5-formyl tetrahydrafolate and folic acid (Active Folic acid) vs a blend of folic acid, 5-MTHF and 5-formyl tetrahydrafolate (both companies use 400mcg)
Mineral Amino Acid Chelated of Magnesium, Zinc, Selenium, Copper, Maganese, Chromium, Molybdenum, vanadium and potassium vs just chelates of Mg, Chromium, Zinc and manganese.

200 iu E of blended tocoferols vs 100 iu of just d-alpha

We use Oroxinol (6000 ORAC value anti-oxidant equal to 5-9 servings of fruits and veggies)

It may not be an issue with your patients but we use veggie caps (huge cost increase) in all the nutrient based (non EPA/DHA) capsules in this formula vs tablets.

We also have plans to use our Omega Pure 600 (600 mg of EPA/DHA) vs. Omega Pure 300 as the omega 3 source in the very near future. Wellness Essential uses 500 mg per cap. This has been something we have weighed value vs. cost and we will make the change at very little cost to patients.

I know you said price isn't an issue for your patients; but the price difference to your patients is Wellness Essentials $66.95 vs Active Essentials $45.75. Some people would say over $21.00 is a nice price break.

That being said. My goal in writting this reply was just to answer your post. As I mentioned before. You make decisions based on what you feel are the options for your patients. I was concerned when your wrote:

"But I would rather wait for a product that is going to meet label claims and that I am assured of its quality. I would rather have my flight delayed instead of a company just trying to be on-time and ignore safety".

As an owner in the Xymogen brand it is a concern that a client may have that perception. If you have a question regarding our meeting label claim please ask for an assay. If you have a concern regarding purity please ask for a C of A. But realize if you feel the best interests of your patients are met my another company? Make that choice. Thanks for being a good sport.

If you actually did your own raw materials testing, tableting/encapsulation, finished product testing and stability testing, I can assure you, you would not be using pyridoxal 5 phosphate, the alleged active form of B-6 NOT used by companies who do their own raw materials testing, tableting/encapsulation, finished product testing. P-5-P only exists in living cells and is rapidly converted to pyridoxine upon cell death. Pyridoxine is the predominant form of B-6 in hominid food sources. Pyridoxine-HCL is stable in air and is easily phosporylated for active transport in the presence of magnesium and riboflavin. Companies truly interested in providing a B-6 pill that has a long shelf life and is active have long known this. All multis have riboflavin and mg present, so why formulate with the far more expensive and far less stable P-5-P? Since your products are currently private labelled by a company with only an NPA or TGA certification, this type of testing is probably not occurring.

Only a tiny percent of the population cannot methylate, methylated forms of folic acid do not benefit the vast majority of people who buy supplements and are very expensive compared to folic acid. But, wouldn't it be better to have a program that encourages people to encourage customers to eat leafy greens, a source of natural folate?

It will be interesting to see how your products change once you start doing your own manufacturing, especially if you actually invest in the expensive laboratories required to properly test. It will also be interesting to see how many of your current products have raw materials that are not GRAS, NDI or Prop 65. I bet your catalog will decrease in size dramatically, but not as dramatically as your gross sales.

P.S. tocoferols should tocopherols, cobalamine should be cobalamin, maganese should be manganese, etc.

 

[Anonymous]

Wow I came on this site to do a little research about prenatal vitamins for my wife. After reading these ridiculous and unprofessional posts from supposed doctors and reps, I will not be using metagenics OR xymogen products. You people need get a life.

Yes, I came on here to do some research. Just googled Metagenics and this is the first site. Very disturbing and as a health professional I feel embarrassed by the information that has been written. We work hard to get credibility in the medical industry but discussions as above are not a good representation of professionalism.

Maybe some people need to be reminded....that it is about helping others and improving health, getting back to basics.

I too will now keep away from both these companies.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes, I came on here to do some research. Just googled Metagenics and this is the first site. Very disturbing and as a health professional I feel embarrassed by the information that has been written. We work hard to get credibility in the medical industry but discussions as above are not a good representation of professionalism.

Maybe some people need to be reminded....that it is about helping others and improving health, getting back to basics.

I too will now keep away from both these companies.

Anyone looking for credible information from an anonymous message board has some issues in itself.
Also, any "Physician" who would be influenced by anonymous posters should have their license revoked.
Do you dolts realize that anyone can post anything on an anonymous message board??

Sincerely,

Inspector General of the United States

 

[Anonymous]

Yes, I came on here to do some research. Just googled Metagenics and this is the first site. Very disturbing and as a health professional I feel embarrassed by the information that has been written. We work hard to get credibility in the medical industry but discussions as above are not a good representation of professionalism.

Maybe some people need to be reminded....that it is about helping others and improving health, getting back to basics.

I too will now keep away from both these companies.

Your Mom told me the same thing. In bed.

 

[Anonymous]

One and all- you are cordially invited to The Big Balls Jamboree on June 22! If you happen to be anywhere near Gig Harbor during this time, please stop by. Lots of friendly people, lots of food to enjoy, lots of great music, and the opportunity to show- off your big balls, if you choose! I can assure you (and yours) that you will be welcomed!

 

[Anonymous]

One and all- you are cordially invited to The Big Balls Jamboree on June 22! If you happen to be anywhere near Gig Harbor during this time, please stop by. Lots of friendly people, lots of food to enjoy, lots of great music, and the opportunity to show- off your big balls, if you choose! I can assure you (and yours) that you will be welcomed!

Thanks for the reminder. I'm trying to arrange my family's vacation around something special. I can't think of anything more special than proudly showing off mine and my 3 sons' gorgeous sets of nads.
I'm assuming it's pet friendly and we can bring our un-neutured Great Dane, Jumbo? If you're assuming his Dog Nuts are bigger than any of ours.....you would be correct!!
Please let me know!

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Why?

Really Guys!,

I love Metagenics products - I AM a former employee, and I still love what they are, what they produce, what they stand for, and how they treat their employees. I worked there for about 10 years. Sure, the people and policies have evolved, and it was a transition for all of us. Everything changes and everyone grows. I can honestly say that I trust they have quality products, ingredients, and procedures in place. I watched this and heard about it in the cantina over and over again directly from the employees involved.

I was there in the day when Xymogen screwed Metagenics over and also watched as they had the three top sales managers cowardly fax in their resignations on the same day so they could work for Xymogen. Xymogen got away with making bogus product until they got up and running - now they basically buy the trained Metagenics reps. Business is business and things happen. I've heard that Xymogen is now producing a quality product. Everyone grows and changes jobs along the way.

I know Metagenics provides quality product, and from what I hear, Xymogen does too.
Given the choice, I'd buy Metagenics. Unfortunately, I happen to live in a country where neither is available....

 

[Anonymous]

I still use Metagenics but am very disappointed with the company ethics. I know several practitioners who stopped using Metagenics from the Pan pharmaceutical closure when they were told by Metagenics staff that Metagenics products were not affected - BIG LIE! No one likes being deceived by a company that speaks about ethics. This is a company that is totally motivated by money and encourages practitioners to over prescribe? They certainly reward volume and not loyalty! You have so much to offer, please wake up to yourselves.

 

[Anonymous]

I still use Metagenics but am very disappointed with the company ethics. I know several practitioners who stopped using Metagenics from the Pan pharmaceutical closure when they were told by Metagenics staff that Metagenics products were not affected - BIG LIE! No one likes being deceived by a company that speaks about ethics. This is a company that is totally motivated by money and encourages practitioners to over prescribe? They certainly reward volume and not loyalty! You have so much to offer, please wake up to yourselves.

And of course "Big Balls" is a very important direction we have decided to pursue. You are correct, we do have so much to offer, and many of us do wake up to ourselves! Come, join us as we promote advanced testicle care!

 

[P Sandieson]

Oh My!!

I came here to gain a little Knowledge with regards to buying the product "thyrosol" but I can clearly see This this company is unorganised and unprofessional.

Thank you..

 

[Anonymous]

Oh My!!

I came here to gain a little Knowledge with regards to buying the product "thyrosol" but I can clearly see This this company is unorganised and unprofessional.

Thank you..

You are quite welcome. However, I do urge you to not let the size of your balls influence your feelings about Metagenics. At our Big Balls Jamboree, every June, everyone is accepted for who they are and what they have. Be good to your balls, and they will be good to you!

 

[Anonymous]

OMG. This stream is as unbelievable as it is HYSTERICAL! Guess I'll just stick to my Medical MARAJUANA instead lol (was just randomly looking for a metagenics review). You GUYS should try some! (Seems to temper the testosterone).

NB: No, I'm NOT the aforementioned Lesbian, but guys like you make me WISH I could easily switch lol!

PS. What am I thinking using NB?!? Duh: AS IF the so called "morons" at work here know latin lol. Honesty, I feel the need for a shower after reading this stream. Nah, on second thought I'll just light up and laugh instead!

(Meanwhile, I'M anonymous too - but ONLY because I live in a deep-south police state where weed remains illegal).

 

[E. Wines]

I recently received an email from my primary physician in Chicago promoting Metagenics. She must be a new rep. Thought I'd do a bit of research. The products may be effective but the comments are weird, which makes me wonder about the products. Is this Supplement Wars or what?