Whats with the super young, inexperienced DM's?

[Anonymous]

Yes because you have no clue how you landed this job...oh wait my tight wardrobe...I worked at Medicis... and still aren't married and will never have the chance to associate with an elementary school because you will be a single old hag! Yes can't wait to hear the eulogy some day...she was a great RBD...drove sales yeah!!! PLEASE...Get a life...I feel sorry for you!

Chill out wishing a bad life for someone can't be a good thing

 

[Anonymous]

Here are my two thoughts:

1) I could also ask the question, "What's up with all of the old washed up and tired sales reps in this place?" But I wouldn't because that would be considered age discrimination and not a very nice things to ask on this board. Got it? Good.

2) Pharma does not necessarily need "experienced and tenured" people in DMs positions these days. What are they coaching to anymore? How to open a call, talk about features and benefits? Pharma sales is so restricted there is no coaching to anyone other than a rep with 2 years or less experience. DMs are a joke in this industry. When was the last time you saw a pharma DM get hired into another sales mgt job outside of pharma? Its very rare. That is exactly why you have seen so many pharma DMs go back to being a rep after they have been downsized or terminated. No other sales respectable industry values DM experience in Pharma.

Lesson closed.

 

[Anonymous]

Here are my two thoughts:

1) I could also ask the question, "What's up with all of the old washed up and tired sales reps in this place?" But I wouldn't because that would be considered age discrimination and not a very nice things to ask on this board. Got it? Good.

2) Pharma does not necessarily need "experienced and tenured" people in DMs positions these days. What are they coaching to anymore? How to open a call, talk about features and benefits? Pharma sales is so restricted there is no coaching to anyone other than a rep with 2 years or less experience. DMs are a joke in this industry. When was the last time you saw a pharma DM get hired into another sales mgt job outside of pharma? Its very rare. That is exactly why you have seen so many pharma DMs go back to being a rep after they have been downsized or terminated. No other sales respectable industry values DM experience in Pharma.

Lesson closed.

Good point re #2 however what is old to the industry now 38 ? that's the problem

 

[Anonymous]

Here are my two thoughts:

1) I could also ask the question, "What's up with all of the old washed up and tired sales reps in this place?" But I wouldn't because that would be considered age discrimination and not a very nice things to ask on this board. Got it? Good.

2) Pharma does not necessarily need "experienced and tenured" people in DMs positions these days. What are they coaching to anymore? How to open a call, talk about features and benefits? Pharma sales is so restricted there is no coaching to anyone other than a rep with 2 years or less experience. DMs are a joke in this industry. When was the last time you saw a pharma DM get hired into another sales mgt job outside of pharma? Its very rare. That is exactly why you have seen so many pharma DMs go back to being a rep after they have been downsized or terminated. No other sales respectable industry values DM experience in Pharma.

Lesson closed.

RIIIIIGGGGHHHHHTTTTT.

So applying your logic, the solution is to hire someone who you KNOW has zero understanding of leadership or coaching to lead a team through a new product launch in the hopes of trying to compete with the giants in the biologic world. I mean you've already stated that DMs with tenure are worthless. So let's just hire someone we are certain has no value. Sound strategy. I like your thinking.

At least we'll be able to count on seeing hot, young and dumb at the launch meeting. Yay TEAM!

 

[Anonymous]

Here are my two thoughts:

1) I could also ask the question, "What's up with all of the old washed up and tired sales reps in this place?" But I wouldn't because that would be considered age discrimination and not a very nice things to ask on this board. Got it? Good.

2) Pharma does not necessarily need "experienced and tenured" people in DMs positions these days. What are they coaching to anymore? How to open a call, talk about features and benefits? Pharma sales is so restricted there is no coaching to anyone other than a rep with 2 years or less experience. DMs are a joke in this industry. When was the last time you saw a pharma DM get hired into another sales mgt job outside of pharma? Its very rare. That is exactly why you have seen so many pharma DMs go back to being a rep after they have been downsized or terminated. No other sales respectable industry values DM experience in Pharma.

Lesson closed.

#1 is close to accurate
#2 is just wrong. Pharma DMs aren't needed. What is needed and what works is a partner/player coach who keeps things on task but calls on key customers/stakeholders just as much as playing the DM role. Next generation DMs.

Whether CELG got them or not, I don't know but in the specialty space, you just can't win with old time pharma DMs.

 

[Anonymous]

#1 is close to accurate
#2 is just wrong. Pharma DMs aren't needed. What is needed and what works is a partner/player coach who keeps things on task but calls on key customers/stakeholders just as much as playing the DM role. Next generation DMs.

Whether CELG got them or not, I don't know but in the specialty space, you just can't win with old time pharma DMs.

Bingo! That is the evolution of the DM. There is a golden or to redefine the role.. hopefully the DM's will recognize their role..

 

[Anonymous]

LMAO every BS contract pharma company will not hire DM's with no mgtm background but Celgene will !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Anonymous]

and you still didn't get the gig Aaron…what does that say?

 

[Anonymous]

RIIIIIGGGGHHHHHTTTTT.

So applying your logic, the solution is to hire someone who you KNOW has zero understanding of leadership or coaching to lead a team through a new product launch in the hopes of trying to compete with the giants in the biologic world. I mean you've already stated that DMs with tenure are worthless. So let's just hire someone we are certain has no value. Sound strategy. I like your thinking.

At least we'll be able to count on seeing hot, young and dumb at the launch meeting. Yay TEAM!

You're missing the point dummy. There is NO value in the DM position anymore. Reread my post. DMs do almost NOTHING to pull through sales therefore coaching, leading, etc do not exist where they are providing value so YES you can hire someone with little to no experience in this position and do well which is what will happen.

YOU DONT NEED SOMEONE WHO IS EXPERIENCED IN COACHING, LEADING, TEACHING SINCE NONE OF THIS HAS ANY VALUE IN THE DM ROLE. What did you not understand in my post above? I am trying to keep this positive but it's really people like you in pharma sales who cannot see through the forest and fully under stand the big picture or true assessment of a situation. The industry at the DM position now needs MANAGERS NOT LEADERS. It is extremely EASY to teach someone how to manage a team as opposed to lead a team which is difficult and takes time.

Lesson closed again.

 

[Anonymous]

YOU DONT NEED SOMEONE WHO IS EXPERIENCED IN COACHING, LEADING, TEACHING SINCE NONE OF THIS HAS ANY VALUE IN THE DM ROLE


LMAO that's why EVERY COMPANY even the small BS ones and contract want some Management background. This company has a bunch of morons at the top who for some reason think they came up with some grand idea to experiment. Mark my words this company will be in for a rude awakening with the shit hits the fan and NOBODY knows what to do. The companies involved in this market are entrenched big time.

 

[Anonymous]

For the record MAJORITY of reps hired came from companies who having been going around doing sample drops for 5 or less yrs. They are injectable clueless. They are EXACTLY the type of rep who is going to be running to the manager asking for help ALOT since from the get go they are going to lost big time . It will take them a long time to get up to speed.

 

[Anonymous]

YOU DONT NEED SOMEONE WHO IS EXPERIENCED IN COACHING, LEADING, TEACHING SINCE NONE OF THIS HAS ANY VALUE IN THE DM ROLE


LMAO that's why EVERY COMPANY even the small BS ones and contract want some Management background. This company has a bunch of morons at the top who for some reason think they came up with some grand idea to experiment. Mark my words this company will be in for a rude awakening with the shit hits the fan and NOBODY knows what to do. The companies involved in this market are entrenched big time.

OF COURSE they want someone with a mgt background so they know how to manage a team well. Do you think The people in Exec Leadership don't also know how the industry has changed and leadership coaching etc is a thing of the past? This is why companies don't want to hire DMs with 5 plus yrs experience and pay them top dollar. It's so black and white I am very confused how you people cannot see it. A trained money can do the DM job which is why you are seeing companies promote inexperienced people to DM roles.

What do you not get? The only thing I can think of is the two people posting are experienced DMs who did not get the job here and are trying desperately so prove the DM job still has value in truly moving sales. In fact one can argue the salespersons role in moving sales has also become very limited. Sorry to say guys your paltry efforts on CP will not get you the job. Your experience in a DM role does not equal value anymore. You have truly become a dinosaur in this industry as well perceived to hold very little no value in other medical related mgt positions.

BTW: who uses LMAO anymore??? Do you still have AOL dial up connection too?

 

[Anonymous]

OF COURSE they want someone with a mgt background so they know how to manage a team well. Do you think The people in Exec Leadership don't also know how the industry has changed and leadership coaching etc is a thing of the past? This is why companies don't want to hire DMs with 5 plus yrs experience and pay them top dollar. It's so black and white I am very confused how you people cannot see it. A trained money can do the DM job which is why you are seeing companies promote inexperienced people to DM roles.

What do you not get? The only thing I can think of is the two people posting are experienced DMs who did not get the job here and are trying desperately so prove the DM job still has value in truly moving sales. In fact one can argue the salespersons role in moving sales has also become very limited. Sorry to say guys your paltry efforts on CP will not get you the job. Your experience in a DM role does not equal value anymore. You have truly become a dinosaur in this industry as well perceived to hold very little no value in other medical related mgt positions.

BTW: who uses LMAO anymore??? Do you still have AOL dial up connection too?

Take a look at the way that Celgene hires DMs and reps in their oncology business. They hire experienced professionals because they know that in specialty markets, experience and deep product knowledge still makes a difference. Look at the other biotech companies competing in the immunology market. They also hire experienced, professional DMs and reps.

In the primary care market, it doesn't matter who you hire as DMs or reps. They have little impact, in no small part because the physicians (and staff) see them as nicely dressed UPS delivery people. What many of us have tried to point out is that hiring DMs and reps based on this primary care model will not work in the rheumatology market. These decisions have been made, leadership and reps are in place, just come back 6 months after launch. By that time, even you will have to acknowledge the great mistake that Celgene made in hiring for this launch.

 

[Anonymous]

BTW: who uses LMAO anymore??? Do you still have AOL dial up connection too?


Who freakin cares if someone uses LMAO get real. Are you the twitter police also !

 

[Anonymous]

I have been interviewing and I am completely dumbfounded as to why they have hired very very very inexperienced and young district managers? The first person who interviewed me had only 4 years sales experience and one of those years was at a rental car company. What abilities/skills do these young managers have to be able to coach their reps? There is something to be said for having a seasoned manager who has insights to provide. I've learned a lot from some excellent managers over the years. That will not be happening here at Celgene. The good news is that the product itself is going to be a major player so I think reps will do well. Good luck to you all!

A little birds told me, cheap cheap cheap

 

[Anonymous]

Take a look at the way that Celgene hires DMs and reps in their oncology business. They hire experienced professionals because they know that in specialty markets, experience and deep product knowledge still makes a difference. Look at the other biotech companies competing in the immunology market. They also hire experienced, professional DMs and reps.

In the primary care market, it doesn't matter who you hire as DMs or reps. They have little impact, in no small part because the physicians (and staff) see them as nicely dressed UPS delivery people. What many of us have tried to point out is that hiring DMs and reps based on this primary care model will not work in the rheumatology market. These decisions have been made, leadership and reps are in place, just come back 6 months after launch. By that time, even you will have to acknowledge the great mistake that Celgene made in hiring for this launch.

I could not disagree more with everyhting in your post above with the ecpetion there are still a handful of companies who will hire an experienced DM but they are far and few between. Most PC, speciality, biotech, etc will and DO hire from within first and those are either reps straight from the field OR someone out of marketing or training. And this is not just due to a "promote from within" mentality but more so from they do not need experienced DMs any more. What is an experienced DM in rheum going to teach a more experienced rep in this pharma environment. THERE IS NOTHING TO TEACH, COACH, TRAIN, MENTOR, EDUCATE to other than prodcut knowledge if a new rep is hired outside of the theraputic area. Honestly, I feel sorry you are so blinded to what is taking place right before your eyes. I honestly dont see how you cannot see this is taking place.

Maybe after reading the below article it will start to set in for you. This article is accurate with the exception this will take place sooner than the author is suggesting for a handful of reasons.

http://blog.pharmexec.com/2014/01/2...-for-the-american-rx-salesperson63/?topic=422

Think of it this way... It pharma sales people are not needed and hold no value what do you think this means for DMs. The model discussed in this article is already taking place with many ACOs, Hospital Systems, Medicare, Medcaid etc etc etc. Its only a matter of 3-4 years before the major managed care companies see the light.

 

[Anonymous]

Name me another biotech company that hired such inexperienced managers and reps for a major product launch - it doesn't happen. Yes, new DMs are promoted from within (usually through a management development program), but for established products with an established, experienced management team around them. Ultimately, we will agree to disagree on this issue. But I will bet that the first 6 months of sells comes in under 50% of plan - a result that could have been prevented by better hiring

 

[Anonymous]

Name me another biotech company that hired such inexperienced managers and reps for a major product launch - it doesn't happen. Yes, new DMs are promoted from within (usually through a management development program), but for established products with an established, experienced management team around them. Ultimately, we will agree to disagree on this issue. But I will bet that the first 6 months of sells comes in under 50% of plan - a result that could have been prevented by better hiring

ZERO companies ! If the top shareholders of Celgene knew how they hired for this at both the rep level and Mgtm level they would blow a fuse !

 

[Anonymous]

Name me another biotech company that hired such inexperienced managers and reps for a major product launch - it doesn't happen. Yes, new DMs are promoted from within (usually through a management development program), but for established products with an established, experienced management team around them. Ultimately, we will agree to disagree on this issue. But I will bet that the first 6 months of sells comes in under 50% of plan - a result that could have been prevented by better hiring

I'm not sure if you are one of the experienced DMs feeling the new pharma environment and cannot find a job and just frustrated or just not experienced or intelligent enough to comprehend the new phara business model regarding commercial infrastructure? You just don't get it.

You just don't get it. Remember this post in 3 years and will will understand where I was coming from and how correct I was in my assessment of current and future hiring practices at the mid mgt level in the biotech/pharma industry. To me it is very black and white. Good luck in the pharma industry.

 

[Anonymous]

Name me another biotech company that hired such inexperienced managers and reps for a major product launch - it doesn't happen. Yes, new DMs are promoted from within (usually through a management development program), but for established products with an established, experienced management team around them. Ultimately, we will agree to disagree on this issue. But I will bet that the first 6 months of sells comes in under 50% of plan - a result that could have been prevented by better hiring

Forgot to mention yes better hiring could have prevented missing budget 6 months post launch but the hiring focus should not be on DMs at all it should be on the people who are responsible for first the managed care coverage second the marketing strategy, third the quality of the training and education on the product competition and disease state and fourth the ability of the experienced sales people to execute on the marketing strategies and develop and leverage relationships. All of these things are out of the hands of a "leader" or DM. If the sales people are not executing they need a manager to manage them not a leader since the role of a sales person is so boxed in and defined a leader has very little value in this selling/promotional environment.