Tresiba: Lot of hype, high price and not more effective

[Anonymous]

There is plenty of room for all products due to the intra and intersubject variability of insulins.

 

[Anonymous]

Well good for you and Novo for all the growth. No doubt with such purity and perfection in all you do, you're guaranteed another 40, 80, 120 or more consecutive quarters of growth! More power to you, you are the man!

Yeah, it was just an "n of 1". Hmmm...I guess the other Endo practice just down the road that refuses to talk to Sanofi reps unless we pay them to speak...that's just another "n of 1". I guess the other Endo just an hour away that always reminds us that she's obligated to write Levemir because of how much she's paid to speak...I guess she's another "n of 1".

Nothing evil at all about bribing people...it's a common business practice in Mexico, Japan, S. Korea, Russia and a lot of other countries. Good enough for Mexico, good enough for Novo!

Keep on believing that Novo is an ethical company! When doing business a certain way is the way you've done it for a long time, it becomes ethical within the culture. It becomes the way of doing business.



Poor, poor Sanofi. How could you ever keep up with big, bad Novo in spending. You MUST be right. All any company has to do to have unparalleled growth in the industry is simply bribe their speakers. You've unlocked the clue to running a successful company. Goody for you. If it that's easy, then why isn't Sanofi doing it? Is it because they would rather have negative growth quarter after quarter? Hmmm...perhaps it's because you have no clue what you're talking about. Now THAT sound believable.

Thanks for another of your "I think it's true, so I'll fabricate a few anectdotal stories" study. At least you made it to an n of 4 this time. With evidence like that, how could I ever compete?

 

[Anonymous]

Hey Novo troll, no such thing as clinical trials on bribing docs. Get the f out with your line on anecdotal evidence.

When the first thing you hear out of the mouth of an Endo is, "Why don't you pay me to speak like Novo", that's all you need to know.

When you hear, "I wouldn't write Levemir but I feel obligated because they have me out speaking", that's all you need to know.

You don't get market share with a product like Levemir without paying people off. It's that simple.

 

[Anonymous]

Not so. Branded Levemir will be replaced by generic version. Remember, Lantus was covered on nearly every plan when NPH was there the entire time at a significantly lower price. Lantus will lose share as more new patient starts go to Tresiba. The challenge Tresiba will have is premium pricing.

Accurate mostly but I doubt many generic companies would produce a generic Levemir when it is only a quarter of the global sales of lantus- more likely some aggressive selling of branded generic lantus and get docs to switch both Lantus and Levemir patients.

Generic Lantus in a vial will only be a big seller in the US and 3rd world, >90% sales in Europe and Japan are in pen devices and that is why Lilly are working towards selling glargine in a kwikpen.

I also think NN management has already announced they are not going to pursue any license for tresiba that is alternate day dosing.

 

[Anonymous]

Hey Novo troll, no such thing as clinical trials on bribing docs. Get the f out with your line on anecdotal evidence.

When the first thing you hear out of the mouth of an Endo is, "Why don't you pay me to speak like Novo", that's all you need to know.

When you hear, "I wouldn't write Levemir but I feel obligated because they have me out speaking", that's all you need to know.

You don't get market share with a product like Levemir without paying people off. It's that simple.

I see you're sticking with your bullshit story. We have almost a 20% share with Levemir. I wonder how we can afford to bribe so many docs. Hmmmmm. Here's a thought--perhaps we've gotten that market share through simply being a better company that brings more value to our customers. Perhaps that's why Apidra has done so poorly for you, given relatively the same market conditions as Levemir. Levemir hasn't done great, but it's done pretty damn well considering that glargine had a 5 year head start. Apidra.....not se well. But, that's cool. 2 doctors have told you that they write because we pay them to, so that MUST be universally true. Thanks for being so smart--how could I ever compete with such clear evidence as you've provided?

 

[Anonymous]

I see you're sticking with your bullshit story. We have almost a 20% share with Levemir. I wonder how we can afford to bribe so many docs. Hmmmmm. Here's a thought--perhaps we've gotten that market share through simply being a better company that brings more value to our customers. Perhaps that's why Apidra has done so poorly for you, given relatively the same market conditions as Levemir. Levemir hasn't done great, but it's done pretty damn well considering that glargine had a 5 year head start. Apidra.....not se well. But, that's cool. 2 doctors have told you that they write because we pay them to, so that MUST be universally true. Thanks for being so smart--how could I ever compete with such clear evidence as you've provided?

You don't have 20% share nationally....dream on. Also, get off sanofi cp blog...don't you have to bone up (lol) on your grifter skills? Don't you have a new crappy product coming? I am sure you will enjoy a low market share for that amazing contribution to healthcare as well! Another copycat drug brought to you by the reps that will do ANYTHING for a script and STILL can't get more than a small fraction of the business. Lying, cheating, begging the doctors.
But Dr I need help I have to feed my very small and hungry children, please please write Levemir....how many times have my docs told me these stories??? Too many to count! Pathetic!

 

[Anonymous]

I love your absolutes: "There's never been an issue...." My response at being a smartass is because you make proposterous statements, and you act like they're completely logical. It's funny. You're funny. Unfortunately (for you), you're not trying to be funny.

I love your quote on Novo's business model. Thanks for using another of your own personal opinion clinical trials (n=1) to try and make your point. Is your argument really that Novo outspends Sanofi? Really? You may want to do a bit of research one Sunshine laws go into place regarding who spends more on promotional speaker. I think you might be surprised. Add in, Novo Nordisk is now at 40 consecutive quarters of double-digit sales growth--it can't be because we make good products, manage our bottom line well, do an an excellent job selling, and provide great support to physicians and patients. That's just CRAZY! Surely, it must be becuase we just pay people to write. Great argument. Thanks for your wonderful insight into how to run a successful pharma company. Wonder why the rest of the company's in the industry can't seem to figure out your proposed business model.

What can I expect out of a Sanofir rep, though? It seems you're sticking with the "everyone else is pure evil, and Sanofi is great" and the "I make broad, sweeping claims with no proof" arguments. Keep running with those!!

We do something with our basal insulin that you folks at Sanofi don't: its called selling.
All u need to do is go in and say "doc, Lantus is covered at all the hospitals and endos in the area. Its the first basal analog, you're comfortable using it. If it aint broke dont fix it". Novo, on the other hand, actually use MVAs and studies that actually show better results than your agent. The qd/bid bullshit is extremely old by now - arent you guys bored to death bringing it up? Let me tell you - our doctors are. U say it to them (lantus is the only qd basal insulin) and then i show up and completely disprove everything you say. Porcellati can be disproved in a matter of seconds. Now who in this scenario looks foolish? It sure isn't us at Novo.

So even if we're only at 20% or so nationally, NN is slowly winning the war of complacency.
Besides, you can claim to be #1 basal on the market all you want - at the end of the day,
I'm still making more bonus money that you! Now i ask again - who in this scenario looks foolish? It sure isnt us at Novo.

 

[Anonymous]

We do something with our basal insulin that you folks at Sanofi don't: its called selling.
All u need to do is go in and say "doc, Lantus is covered at all the hospitals and endos in the area. Its the first basal analog, you're comfortable using it. If it aint broke dont fix it". Novo, on the other hand, actually use MVAs and studies that actually show better results than your agent. The qd/bid bullshit is extremely old by now - arent you guys bored to death bringing it up? Let me tell you - our doctors are. U say it to them (lantus is the only qd basal insulin) and then i show up and completely disprove everything you say. Porcellati can be disproved in a matter of seconds. Now who in this scenario looks foolish? It sure isn't us at Novo.

So even if we're only at 20% or so nationally, NN is slowly winning the war of complacency.
Besides, you can claim to be #1 basal on the market all you want - at the end of the day,
I'm still making more bonus money that you! Now i ask again - who in this scenario looks foolish? It sure isnt us at Novo.

Lantus sales in 2011 $4.16 billion with double-digit sales growth every year since launch in May 2001. http://store.businessmonitor.com/article/339665/

Yeah, the growth sure looks like complacency! Double-digit growth as in over 20% growth every year for over a decade. Yeah, that's complacency.

 

[Anonymous]

"Value" defined by customers that speak for Novo: "You mean you'll pay me $250k in a year to speak on behalf of Levemir? Really, that sounds like a great value to my bank account. Thanks Novo for financing my luxurious lifestyle."

You bet that's value if you're on the receiving end of that cash.

 

[Anonymous]

Lantus sales in 2011 $4.16 billion with double-digit sales growth every year since launch in May 2001. http://store.businessmonitor.com/article/339665/

Yeah, the growth sure looks like complacency! Double-digit growth as in over 20% growth every year for over a decade. Yeah, that's complacency.

For the past 3 years, it's called PRICE INCREASES. As you've gone backwards in market share, you simply raise the price. Yeah, that's complacency.

 

[Anonymous]

You don't have 20% share nationally....dream on. Also, get off sanofi cp blog...don't you have to bone up (lol) on your grifter skills? Don't you have a new crappy product coming? I am sure you will enjoy a low market share for that amazing contribution to healthcare as well! Another copycat drug brought to you by the reps that will do ANYTHING for a script and STILL can't get more than a small fraction of the business. Lying, cheating, begging the doctors.
But Dr I need help I have to feed my very small and hungry children, please please write Levemir....how many times have my docs told me these stories??? Too many to count! Pathetic!

I said "almost 20%"--it's 18.4% nationally. How's Apidra doing comparatively? Just curious--you guys have really done a bang-up job with that one, haven't you?

When you refer to a "small fraction" of the business, I assume you mean being the leader in the insulin market. Here's something we do that you don't: sell more than one product. Wow, that's a novel idea, isn't it? Here's something else we have that you don't: a diabetes pipeline. Something else: job security. See how all that works. But, go ahead and stick with your belief that we have to beg for scripts. I guess we've begged so well that we sell more insulin than you do. Again, if it was that easy, you'd be doing it to. Grow up and quit believing only what your company tells you. Do some reading and develop an opinion, not a regurgitation of the bullshit your company tries to sell you about Novo.

 

[Anonymous]

I said "almost 20%"--it's 18.4% nationally. How's Apidra doing comparatively? Just curious--you guys have really done a bang-up job with that one, haven't you?

When you refer to a "small fraction" of the business, I assume you mean being the leader in the insulin market. Here's something we do that you don't: sell more than one product. Wow, that's a novel idea, isn't it? Here's something else we have that you don't: a diabetes pipeline. Something else: job security. See how all that works. But, go ahead and stick with your belief that we have to beg for scripts. I guess we've begged so well that we sell more insulin than you do. Again, if it was that easy, you'd be doing it to. Grow up and quit believing only what your company tells you. Do some reading and develop an opinion, not a regurgitation of the bullshit your company tries to sell you about Novo.

Look I know your water-filled head is heavy and it makes it hard to think but Sanofi doesn't talk to me about Novo. I mean LOL...you think my company is having conference calls about your crybaby bullshit sales tactics that amount to nothing? Everything I know about Novo I hear from the doctors I call on. Yes about 85% of the doctors can't stand the sight of most of you and yes they LAUGH at you guys behind your backs. The other 15% admit that Levemir is a shit product and that they rx it sometimes because they actually feel sorry for you. BTW Our product is so fucking big we don't have to sell more than one. And we for certain don't have to go around saying: Dr I have all these very hungry children that need milk and the Lantus reps don't have children or even drink milk so will you write Levemir for your next ten patients? LMFAO

 

[Anonymous]

For the past 3 years, it's called PRICE INCREASES. As you've gone backwards in market share, you simply raise the price. Yeah, that's complacency.

Every pharma company increases price. Sales growth of Lantus over past three years: 21.9%, 20.6%, and 25.7%.

No way did all of that growth come from price increase. Sure, a small part comes from price increase. The rest came from sales demand. Incremental share growth of Lantus drives tremendous revenue growth.

As you brag about Levemir, just remember one thing: Aventis (and now Sanofi) completely changed and expanded the market for long acting insulin. Peak sales of Lantus were predicted to only reach $270 million. In fact, Aventis almost sold the patent but decided to hang on and launch Lantus. So, we only changed the diabetes market completely and have delivered the world's #1 selling diabetes product.

The only reason you have Levemir share is the fact that we created the market and you pickup the crumbs we leave on the floor.

 

[Anonymous]

Look I know your water-filled head is heavy and it makes it hard to think but Sanofi doesn't talk to me about Novo. I mean LOL...you think my company is having conference calls about your crybaby bullshit sales tactics that amount to nothing? Everything I know about Novo I hear from the doctors I call on. Yes about 85% of the doctors can't stand the sight of most of you and yes they LAUGH at you guys behind your backs. The other 15% admit that Levemir is a shit product and that they rx it sometimes because they actually feel sorry for you. BTW Our product is so fucking big we don't have to sell more than one. And we for certain don't have to go around saying: Dr I have all these very hungry children that need milk and the Lantus reps don't have children or even drink milk so will you write Levemir for your next ten patients? LMFAO

Odd that they hate us so much, yet they write our insulin more than anyone else's. Hmmmmm. Perhaps you're mistaken at who has passed along the information to you.

And, our sales tactics are such "bullshit" that, again, they write our products more than anyone else's. Plus, go look at Impact Rx data someday--customers rank our salesforce significantly better than yours (and better than everyone else's in the diabetes market). But, hey, that's ACTUAL DATA we're talking about, and I know that scares you. Your anonymous stories that are 100% unverifiable carry SOOOO much more weight, don't they? Get educated, young man, it'll do you wonders someday.

 

[Anonymous]

Every pharma company increases price. Sales growth of Lantus over past three years: 21.9%, 20.6%, and 25.7%.

No way did all of that growth come from price increase. Sure, a small part comes from price increase. The rest came from sales demand. Incremental share growth of Lantus drives tremendous revenue growth.

As you brag about Levemir, just remember one thing: Aventis (and now Sanofi) completely changed and expanded the market for long acting insulin. Peak sales of Lantus were predicted to only reach $270 million. In fact, Aventis almost sold the patent but decided to hang on and launch Lantus. So, we only changed the diabetes market completely and have delivered the world's #1 selling diabetes product.

The only reason you have Levemir share is the fact that we created the market and you pickup the crumbs we leave on the floor.

So, how much came from price increases and how much came from demand? You pretend to know, so let's hear it (Hint: it's MUCH more than you think--go look at your sales volume; it's nowhere NEAR 20% growth). Thanks for the laugh. Keep drinking the Sanofi Kool-Aid!

 

[Anonymous]

So, how much came from price increases and how much came from demand? You pretend to know, so let's hear it (Hint: it's MUCH more than you think--go look at your sales volume; it's nowhere NEAR 20% growth). Thanks for the laugh. Keep drinking the Sanofi Kool-Aid!

Your previous post stated, "it's called PRICE INCREASES". Now your post admits that part of the growth came from demand and some from price increases.

I didn't pretend to know anything - the growth is fact. Sure, a portion comes from price increases (as the same thing with Novo products). Don't act for a second like your company doesn't increase prices.

Dude, I don't have the time to go back and look at price increase vs. volume/share increase for the past few years. Seeing you act so high and mighty as just another pharma rep is very entertaining.

I always enjoy seeing self-appointed do gooders like you tell the world how you and Novo are so great. You're just another arrogant, corrupt Novo rep.

You can quote 40 quarters of double-digit sales growth all you want. At the end of the day you and your company bribe doctors with excessive speaking fees. I don't need more than a few examples to know exactly how your business is run (if you can call it business - nothing more than payola). The Endocrinologists that can't be bought Rx Lantus with 80-90% or higher share. Those that have been bought by Novo write a lot of Levemir (20-40%). It's that simple.

When Sunshine Law kicks in with reporting in 2013, I'm personally going to publish the docs with high Levemir/Victoza share along with their compensation.

I know the truth whether or not you'll ever admit it (and you won't because you're a tool on top of working for an unethical company).

 

[Anonymous]

Your previous post stated, "it's called PRICE INCREASES". Now your post admits that part of the growth came from demand and some from price increases.

I didn't pretend to know anything - the growth is fact. Sure, a portion comes from price increases (as the same thing with Novo products). Don't act for a second like your company doesn't increase prices.

Dude, I don't have the time to go back and look at price increase vs. volume/share increase for the past few years. Seeing you act so high and mighty as just another pharma rep is very entertaining.

I always enjoy seeing self-appointed do gooders like you tell the world how you and Novo are so great. You're just another arrogant, corrupt Novo rep.

You can quote 40 quarters of double-digit sales growth all you want. At the end of the day you and your company bribe doctors with excessive speaking fees. I don't need more than a few examples to know exactly how your business is run (if you can call it business - nothing more than payola). The Endocrinologists that can't be bought Rx Lantus with 80-90% or higher share. Those that have been bought by Novo write a lot of Levemir (20-40%). It's that simple.

When Sunshine Law kicks in with reporting in 2013, I'm personally going to publish the docs with high Levemir/Victoza share along with their compensation.

I know the truth whether or not you'll ever admit it (and you won't because you're a tool on top of working for an unethical company).

Again, if it was as simple as bribing doctors, then how is it we sell more insulin than everyone else? S-A obvoiously has much deeper pockets than we do, and would sell their firstborn children to achieve the consistent sales succss that we have. If the model for success was as simple as you say, EVERYONE in the industry would do the same thing. But, look at pharma stock prices; look at Sales growth across the industry--NNI is out-performing EVERY pharma company. Quit being ignorant.

Thanks for confirming what I've known all along about you--you lack the ability to critically think. You can simply regurgitate what your buddies, your company, and apparenty 2 of your customers tell you about NNI. Why not pick up a copy of the Economist or the WSJ sometime--NNI is in it all the time. Go read why we've been on the Forbes 50 best places to work for 4 straight years. GET EDUCATED. You sound like a fool.

Thanks for playing. Take a week to read, and then come post again.

 

[Anonymous]

Again, if it was as simple as bribing doctors, then how is it we sell more insulin than everyone else? S-A obvoiously has much deeper pockets than we do, and would sell their firstborn children to achieve the consistent sales succss that we have. If the model for success was as simple as you say, EVERYONE in the industry would do the same thing. But, look at pharma stock prices; look at Sales growth across the industry--NNI is out-performing EVERY pharma company. Quit being ignorant.

Thanks for confirming what I've known all along about you--you lack the ability to critically think. You can simply regurgitate what your buddies, your company, and apparenty 2 of your customers tell you about NNI. Why not pick up a copy of the Economist or the WSJ sometime--NNI is in it all the time. Go read why we've been on the Forbes 50 best places to work for 4 straight years. GET EDUCATED. You sound like a fool.

Thanks for playing. Take a week to read, and then come post again.

I am plenty educated and quite enjoy the Economist. I would not point to WSJ as a scholarly read. This has nothing to do with pipeline, what the analysts are saying, etc and you know it. This is personal. This is about you having the nerve to even be on CP Sanofi in the first place. As reps we clearly do not enjoy each others company(both literally and figuratively) and obviously share different points of view about sales tactics and about what is acceptable in the field with customers. Not to mention ethical. It is business therefore fairness does not come into play but ethics still important. I would assert your reps may be seriously lacking in that department. This has nothing to do with who reads what. What do you think WSJ would say about the Novo reps favorite detail?" But Doctor Lantus gets all the scripts and I think we deserve our fair share. I am trying to make quota! Besides Doctor did you know that your patients will only gain 1kg instead of 2kg on Lantus. Doctor this works really well and you will really see the difference. Therewas a patient that weighed 435 lbs on Lantus and this Doctor switched them to Levemir and now they are a supermodel in France. They don't even have Diabetes anymore! We change lives with our product Doctor. Plus I am trying to win a trip to Cabo. Can you switch your Lantus patients to Levemir?" Do you guys get your sales techniques from the WSJ? Editors from both publications cringe when they hear you read them. More like Bozo's Tips for Closing the Sale! LMFAO! Go back to Novo page and take another course in Whining to the Doctor...you must be up to the graduate level course! Whining 567.

 

[Anonymous]

Again, if it was as simple as bribing doctors, then how is it we sell more insulin than everyone else? S-A obvoiously has much deeper pockets than we do, and would sell their firstborn children to achieve the consistent sales succss that we have. If the model for success was as simple as you say, EVERYONE in the industry would do the same thing. But, look at pharma stock prices; look at Sales growth across the industry--NNI is out-performing EVERY pharma company. Quit being ignorant.

Thanks for confirming what I've known all along about you--you lack the ability to critically think. You can simply regurgitate what your buddies, your company, and apparenty 2 of your customers tell you about NNI. Why not pick up a copy of the Economist or the WSJ sometime--NNI is in it all the time. Go read why we've been on the Forbes 50 best places to work for 4 straight years. GET EDUCATED. You sound like a fool.

Thanks for playing. Take a week to read, and then come post again.

Actually, you need to get some education on ethics. Have you completed the on-line training on ethics? You are being led by a highly unethical group of executives. Novo's executives set the tone for everything at Novo.

What you don't realize is that I walked you into the trap. Enron made a lot of money operating in a highly unethical manner. Novo has made a lot of money, but you're working for a highly corrupt organization.

The fact that Novo threatened to stop shipping insulin to Greece as a result of the financial collapse is very shameful and beyond the pale. I would rather work for a company that's gone through layoffs over a company like Novo that puts profits before patients.

The fact that Novo manufactured the cancer issue - a tactic that scared thousands of patients, is disgusting. Sanofi took the high road and proved Novo a fraud for creating the issue (ORIGIN trial).

I'm so glad that I don't work at a place like Novo. You on the other hand, can keep your 40 quarters of double-digit growth and all the unethical behaviors that go along with it.

Try a little education on what's happening in your beloved company:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505123_...ning-web-site-mirrors-its-real-life-problems/

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for a hearty laugh at your expense to the 2 previous posters. The slippery slope sales call example was my favorite. First, you pretend that everyone uses that sales call. In all reality, I can say with 100% certainty, that no one in the entire organization uses that call. If we did, our customers wouldn't prescribe any of our products. Being they do use them at a rate more than any other company, I assume you'll be able to draw your own conclusions. For someone who supposedly reads the Economist, or simply reads for that matter, you think VERY small. A single, fictional example of a sales call that has never happened doesn't strengthen your position--it simply confirms that you are your company's puppet and will believe anything they say. Cite something REAL to support your argument. If you can't cite something real, then maybe you should change your argument.

To the second poster--the actions of a few employees do not define a company. Those actions may get a company in trouble, but they don't define a company. I like that you use an Internet editorial as your proof that Novo Nordisk is unethical, though. (An editorial represents an OPINION, nothing more). With that in mind, where is Sanofi's ethics webpage? You may not like the "video game" as the editorialist put it, but what is Sanofi doing to educate young people about the misconceptions associated with insulin therapy? Did we threaten to pull out of Greece--of course we did. And Sanofi thanked us for it afterwards--Greece was attempting the mandate a 50% price reduction for all manufacturers of pharmaceuticals. If you do it for one country in the EU, guess how many others expect the same treatment. Is Sanofi willing to take a 50% loss in Europe? Of course they aren't--it took a LEADER to step forward and risk some bad press to keep the entire EU from railroading the pharma industry. Last, who cares about Kore Schultz's car. What's the car allowance for your COO? You have no idea, do you? Of course you don't. I could look at your company's actions around Multaq and Accomplia and say all sorts nasty things, couldn't I? I've yet to say Sanofi is unethical. All I've said is there is a GREAT deal of items relating to our success, none of which is bribery.

NNI is simply a better company. Physicians have voiced that, employees know that, and the financials prove that. How you can continue to be loyal to Sanofi after they continue to lay-off your peers (at Christmas time, mind you) every year, I don't quite understand. But, that's your choice. Enjoy!