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To those who quit Hepatitis C

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Those who left HCV were smart! Do you really think you're gonna be successful with the 3D? Look, Harvoni is out now with 1 pill a day, little to no side effects, ZERO discontinuation, 8 week regimen at a very low cost of $63,000 - if you need 12 weeks it will be approx $95,000 NO ONE will prescribe it for 24 weeks and most cheap ass providers will write it off label for 8 weeks because the price is so reasonable. Should they write it for 8 weeks for everyone? Absolutely not! Will there be relapses - sure, but it WILL get written first solely for the price. If they relapse....insurance probably won't pay again, but it is a chance they'll take...you bet!
Gilead was first so they made the price high in purpose because they owned the market...now that there is competition coming....they made the 8week treatment cheap because they made so much profit the first go around AND they are HOPING providers will write off label for the 8 weeks ....so they will be getting less this time around, but they WILL get the majority of the business. Our regimen is too complicated .....ritonivir + Ribavirin + 3 pills BID without RIBA (1B) and 5 pills BID with RIBA (1A) - compliance will be a nightmare...will it work better than. Harvoni in a very cirrhotic patient...YES, but it will not get written FIRST. If I'm wrong...it will be a miracle and if we launch this drug correctly...it will be a miracle...the leadership is self centered and tunnel visioned ...everything this franchise has out out thus far has been crap...and more crap...and more crap....I'm not getting my hopes up that this launch will be good...everything else has failed miserably! We all will be looking for new jobs soon and I'm going to be ahead of the pack before the tsunami of desperate reps finally realize they are not going to compete with this drug. Good luck....you'll need it!
 




Anonymous said:
Those who left HCV were smart! Do you really think you're gonna be successful with the 3D? Look, Harvoni is out now with 1 pill a day, little to no side effects, ZERO discontinuation, 8 week regimen at a very low cost of $63,000 - if you need 12 weeks it will be approx $95,000 NO ONE will prescribe it for 24 weeks and most cheap ass providers will write it off label for 8 weeks because the price is so reasonable. Should they write it for 8 weeks for everyone? Absolutely not! Will there be relapses - sure, but it WILL get written first solely for the price. If they relapse....insurance probably won't pay again, but it is a chance they'll take...you bet!
Gilead was first so they made the price high in purpose because they owned the market...now that there is competition coming....they made the 8week treatment cheap because they made so much profit the first go around AND they are HOPING providers will write off label for the 8 weeks ....so they will be getting less this time around, but they WILL get the majority of the business. Our regimen is too complicated .....ritonivir + Ribavirin + 3 pills BID without RIBA (1B) and 5 pills BID with RIBA (1A) - compliance will be a nightmare...will it work better than. Harvoni in a very cirrhotic patient...YES, but it will not get written FIRST. If I'm wrong...it will be a miracle and if we launch this drug correctly...it will be a miracle...the leadership is self centered and tunnel visioned ...everything this franchise has out out thus far has been crap...and more crap...and more crap....I'm not getting my hopes up that this launch will be good...everything else has failed miserably! We all will be looking for new jobs soon and I'm going to be ahead of the pack before the tsunami of desperate reps finally realize they are not going to compete with this drug. Good luck....you'll need it!
Click to expand...

I agree with a lot of what you are saying but need to correct a few of your comments:

1. Harvoni's indication for treatment experienced cirrhotics is 24 weeks. No provider will take the risk of prescribing it for less than 24 weeks in this patient population. This is one area where we can win if our label language is favorable (based on the Turquoise-II data).

2. If clinicians prescribe 8 week Harvoni in the correct patients there should be few relapses. Only 2% relapses in patients who had baseline VLs less than 6M copies at baseline.

3. The 3D regimen is 3 pills in the AM and one pill in the PM (without RBV). It's not 3 pills BID. We still have the advantage in 1b patients - 100% SVR without RBV. However, there are few 1b patients in the US.
 




who are we kidding. We are dead. Our indication will be 6 months in that population too - just like theirs. We will be begging for business. Let's face it. We are all here and would rather be there. How that blowhard left tells you he either got pushed out or is an idiot. My guess is they wanted to get rid of him. I heard from a former vertex rep that he left well over 500K is stock on table. Hahahahaha. Don't tell me how to come into my territory and bride SP's
 




Anonymous said:
I agree with a lot of what you are saying but need to correct a few of your comments:

1. Harvoni's indication for treatment experienced cirrhotics is 24 weeks. No provider will take the risk of prescribing it for less than 24 weeks in this patient population. This is one area where we can win if our label language is favorable (based on the Turquoise-II data).

2. If clinicians prescribe 8 week Harvoni in the correct patients there should be few relapses. Only 2% relapses in patients who had baseline VLs less than 6M copies at baseline.

3. The 3D regimen is 3 pills in the AM and one pill in the PM (without RBV). It's not 3 pills BID. We still have the advantage in 1b patients - 100% SVR without RBV. However, there are few 1b patients in the US.
Click to expand...

Well - no one is going to want to pay $190 for 24 wks - I'll be surprised if that ever happens regardless of how cirrhotic the patient is and of past treatment. Providers will fudge the data requested by the insurance companies (just like they did for all the Sim Sof patients that were not truly interferon intolerant) to get an 8wk or 12 wk regimen. You better believe that will happen because the price is so aggressive and I don't think the insurance companies will care because it is CHEAPER than what's out there now. If the patient relapses - the insurance plans are going to laugh and say too bad you had your chance and you took a risk...now deal with it. We just have to be super passionate about our drug curing the virus for good the first time around, but the challenge will be to convince our providers that it is worth the higher price (because we WILL be more expensive) and the side effects and possible discontinuation and likely non compliant ...oh I just convinced myself not to use it in my head just now...we are truly fu&$ed!

Please clarify the dosing: is 2 pills of Abt450/r co formulated with Abt267? It's not one pill? I get that ABT 333 is dosed twice daily 1 in AM and 1 in PM, but I thought ABT450/r was co formulated with ABT267 in one pill - NO? I'm confused...I get that RIBA is dosed twice daily...but are you sure ABT267+ABT450/r is in two pills not one? Please explain. Thanks!
 




Anonymous said:
I agree with a lot of what you are saying but need to correct a few of your comments:

1. Harvoni's indication for treatment experienced cirrhotics is 24 weeks. No provider will take the risk of prescribing it for less than 24 weeks in this patient population. This is one area where we can win if our label language is favorable (based on the Turquoise-II data).

2. If clinicians prescribe 8 week Harvoni in the correct patients there should be few relapses. Only 2% relapses in patients who had baseline VLs less than 6M copies at baseline.

3. The 3D regimen is 3 pills in the AM and one pill in the PM (without RBV). It's not 3 pills BID. We still have the advantage in 1b patients - 100% SVR without RBV. However, there are few 1b patients in the US.
Click to expand...

Well - no one is going to want to pay $190 for 24 wks - I'll be surprised if that ever happens regardless of how cirrhotic the patient is and of past treatment. Providers will fudge the data requested by the insurance companies (just like they did for all the Sim Sof patients that were not truly interferon intolerant) to get an 8wk or 12 wk regimen. You better believe that will happen because the price is so aggressive and I don't think the insurance companies will care because it is CHEAPER than what's out there now. If the patient relapses - the insurance plans are going to laugh and say too bad you had your chance and you took a risk...now deal with it. We just have to be super passionate about our drug curing the virus for good the first time around, but the challenge will be to convince our providers that it is worth the higher price (because we WILL be more expensive) and the side effects and possible discontinuation and likely non compliant ...oh I just convinced myself not to use it in my head just now...we are truly fu&$ed!

Please clarify the dosing: is 2 pills of Abt450/r co formulated with Abt267? It's not one pill? I get that ABT 333 is dosed twice daily 1 in AM and 1 in PM, but I thought ABT450/r was co formulated with ABT267 in one pill - NO? I'm confused...I get that RIBA is dosed twice daily...but are you sure ABT267+ABT450/r is in two pills not one? Please explain. Thanks!
 




Anonymous said:
who are we kidding. We are dead. Our indication will be 6 months in that population too - just like theirs. We will be begging for business. Let's face it. We are all here and would rather be there. How that blowhard left tells you he either got pushed out or is an idiot. My guess is they wanted to get rid of him. I heard from a former vertex rep that he left well over 500K is stock on table. Hahahahaha. Don't tell me how to come into my territory and bride SP's
Click to expand...

I agree with you, if we get a 24 week indication in 1a treatment experienced cirrhotics then we lose the only real advantage we have over them. We need to price 3D at around $50K to make any dent in the market.

In 1b cirrhotics we should get a 12 week indication but the use of RBV will be a hinderance.
 




Anonymous said:
Well - no one is going to want to pay $190 for 24 wks - I'll be surprised if that ever happens regardless of how cirrhotic the patient is and of past treatment. Providers will fudge the data requested by the insurance companies (just like they did for all the Sim Sof patients that were not truly interferon intolerant) to get an 8wk or 12 wk regimen. You better believe that will happen because the price is so aggressive and I don't think the insurance companies will care because it is CHEAPER than what's out there now. If the patient relapses - the insurance plans are going to laugh and say too bad you had your chance and you took a risk...now deal with it. We just have to be super passionate about our drug curing the virus for good the first time around, but the challenge will be to convince our providers that it is worth the higher price (because we WILL be more expensive) and the side effects and possible discontinuation and likely non compliant ...oh I just convinced myself not to use it in my head just now...we are truly fu&$ed!

Please clarify the dosing: is 2 pills of Abt450/r co formulated with Abt267? It's not one pill? I get that ABT 333 is dosed twice daily 1 in AM and 1 in PM, but I thought ABT450/r was co formulated with ABT267 in one pill - NO? I'm confused...I get that RIBA is dosed twice daily...but are you sure ABT267+ABT450/r is in two pills not one? Please explain. Thanks!
Click to expand...

FU Negative Poster! We are Abbvie and have the most intelligent management team in pharma!!
 




Anonymous said:
I agree with you, if we get a 24 week indication in 1a treatment experienced cirrhotics then we lose the only real advantage we have over them. We need to price 3D at around $50K to make any dent in the market.

In 1b cirrhotics we should get a 12 week indication but the use of RBV will be a hinderance.
Click to expand...

LOVE how you all keep calling it 3DAA when competition will def. be informing providers its really 5DAA. Nice try, but your credibility is zero.
 












Anonymous said:
LOVE how you all keep calling it 3DAA when competition will def. be informing providers its really 5DAA. Nice try, but your credibility is zero.
Click to expand...

Ritonavir is only being used as a PK enhancer, it has no HCV antiviral activity. Ribavirin is not required in all subgenotypes. Therefore, it is a 3DAA regimen. It doesn't really matter how many drugs a regimen has as long as the efficacy and safety are excellent. While Gilead has simplicity advantages over Abbvie, you cannot deny that the efficacy, safety and tolerability of the Abbvie regimen are excellent. You really can't get much better than 97% SVR in 1a and 100% in 1b. The cirrhotic numbers are just as good.
 




Anonymous said:
Ritonavir is only being used as a PK enhancer, it has no HCV antiviral activity. Ribavirin is not required in all subgenotypes. Therefore, it is a 3DAA regimen. It doesn't really matter how many drugs a regimen has as long as the efficacy and safety are excellent. While Gilead has simplicity advantages over Abbvie, you cannot deny that the efficacy, safety and tolerability of the Abbvie regimen are excellent. You really can't get much better than 97% SVR in 1a and 100% in 1b. The cirrhotic numbers are just as good.
Click to expand...

Bet you have cirrhosis, too, from all that boozing you've been doing.
 




Anonymous said:
Ritonavir is only being used as a PK enhancer, it has no HCV antiviral activity. Ribavirin is not required in all subgenotypes. Therefore, it is a 3DAA regimen. It doesn't really matter how many drugs a regimen has as long as the efficacy and safety are excellent. While Gilead has simplicity advantages over Abbvie, you cannot deny that the efficacy, safety and tolerability of the Abbvie regimen are excellent. You really can't get much better than 97% SVR in 1a and 100% in 1b. The cirrhotic numbers are just as good.
Click to expand...

OMG!! Talk to your doctors and they will tell you Gilead has the better regimen!! Are you talking from the Dandy's butt! Sorry to say this but we are F'ed!
 




Anonymous said:
OMG!! Talk to your doctors and they will tell you Gilead has the better regimen!! Are you talking from the Dandy's butt! Sorry to say this but we are F'ed!
Click to expand...

Gilead doesn't have a better regimen efficacy or safety wise. It is simpler for some providers who don't want to have to do more than write a prescription and move on to the next patient. But it is not fair to say it is better.
 




Anonymous said:
Gilead doesn't have a better regimen efficacy or safety wise. It is simpler for some providers who don't want to have to do more than write a prescription and move on to the next patient. But it is not fair to say it is better.
Click to expand...

Oh, your doctors will really be swayed by your "fairness" argument. I see sales booming, just to be fair, don't you?
 




Anonymous said:
Gilead doesn't have a better regimen efficacy or safety wise. It is simpler for some providers who don't want to have to do more than write a prescription and move on to the next patient. But it is not fair to say it is better.
Click to expand...

Sort of agree, but I am not underestimating the convenience factor and let's face it, the dosing of 3DAA (or 5, whatever) is pretty bizarre, esp. relative to GLDs.
 




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