The ugly truth about Pharma

It's people like you that are ruining the industry.

Not trying to be mean with this post, but acknowledging the simple truth -

As immature as the above poster is, I have to agree with him. Doctors do not need business majors educating them on anything. The industry started falling apart when companies decided to train non-science majors on scientific products and then have them sell to the most scientifically trained professionals. It is almost laughable. I have seen it way to often. Most reps only know what they are trained to say and spew it out like a machine...as soon as they get a question outside their training they have no idea how to respond.

It is much easier to train someone with a science background in consultative selling than the other way around. It is a shame that reps actually think they are "scientific sales people". Just not the case. The doctors will get along just fine without sales reps at least in regards to education. They do need reps for samples, meals, money and for the relationship aspect, which may help them to prescribe one drug over another. However, the poster above who said doctors need reps for education is just plain and simply, incorrect.
 












Not trying to be mean with this post, but acknowledging the simple truth -

As immature as the above poster is, I have to agree with him. Doctors do not need business majors educating them on anything. The industry started falling apart when companies decided to train non-science majors on scientific products and then have them sell to the most scientifically trained professionals. It is almost laughable. I have seen it way to often. Most reps only know what they are trained to say and spew it out like a machine...as soon as they get a question outside their training they have no idea how to respond.

It is much easier to train someone with a science background in consultative selling than the other way around. It is a shame that reps actually think they are "scientific sales people". Just not the case. The doctors will get along just fine without sales reps at least in regards to education. They do need reps for samples, meals, money and for the relationship aspect, which may help them to prescribe one drug over another. However, the poster above who said doctors need reps for education is just plain and simply, incorrect.

The above poster says, "Doctors do need reps for samples, meals, money and for the relationship aspect", this is almost correct. Doctors can sign for samples online for delivery at the office, they can go to sites for eDetailing, use of ipads, and as far as meals and money, the pharma regs have almost tied our hands eliminating companies from conducting business like we did in the old days. Where does that leave the average pharma rep? This is just one of the reasons why our industry is greatly disappearing.
 






Not trying to be mean with this post, but acknowledging the simple truth -

As immature as the above poster is, I have to agree with him. Doctors do not need business majors educating them on anything. The industry started falling apart when companies decided to train non-science majors on scientific products and then have them sell to the most scientifically trained professionals. It is almost laughable. I have seen it way to often. Most reps only know what they are trained to say and spew it out like a machine...as soon as they get a question outside their training they have no idea how to respond.

It is much easier to train someone with a science background in consultative selling than the other way around. It is a shame that reps actually think they are "scientific sales people". Just not the case. The doctors will get along just fine without sales reps at least in regards to education. They do need reps for samples, meals, money and for the relationship aspect, which may help them to prescribe one drug over another. However, the poster above who said doctors need reps for education is just plain and simply, incorrect.

I actually respectfully disagree with you. I'm not a fan of the Pharma sales model having sold B2B before entering Pharma sales, yet sales ability is a unique gift that does not require the exact educational background for the product your selling. This is the case in many product areas: It is why financial analyst are not brokers, computer tech experts are not the sales people yet they will fix your computer. etc. Some people have sales ability and the technical background yet more times than not this is not the case.

Sales ability is a gift and a unique skill all it's own. It is easier to teach product knowledge than sales ability. Unfortunately many times what you see in Pharma is not the best example of sales ability. However their are also many representatives that are quite skilled and possess natural sales ability and highly developed clinical knowledge.These are the representatives who take the time and effort to be experts and craft their messages carefully for impact. Unfortunately their are also the reps who do not value product knowledge and take no interest or time to learn. They just go around say hello, make jokes, do gimmicky things ie dress up in silly get ups, sample drop and do not balance this with a credible message. It lowers the profession.

If you know what your doing Doctors do value your knowledge. If your only a cheerleader you are never a resource.
 


















I actually respectfully disagree with you. I'm not a fan of the Pharma sales model having sold B2B before entering Pharma sales, yet sales ability is a unique gift that does not require the exact educational background for the product your selling. This is the case in many product areas: It is why financial analyst are not brokers, computer tech experts are not the sales people yet they will fix your computer. etc. Some people have sales ability and the technical background yet more times than not this is not the case.

Sales ability is a gift and a unique skill all it's own. It is easier to teach product knowledge than sales ability. Unfortunately many times what you see in Pharma is not the best example of sales ability. However their are also many representatives that are quite skilled and possess natural sales ability and highly developed clinical knowledge.These are the representatives who take the time and effort to be experts and craft their messages carefully for impact. Unfortunately their are also the reps who do not value product knowledge and take no interest or time to learn. They just go around say hello, make jokes, do gimmicky things ie dress up in silly get ups, sample drop and do not balance this with a credible message. It lowers the profession.

If you know what your doing Doctors do value your knowledge. If your only a cheerleader you are never a resource.

I unfortunately have to respectfully disagree with you once more. There are plenty of very technical people that also have very good sales ability. There is no difference in the number of good sales people based on background and training. It is innate as you suggest. So why not just hire good sales people with science backgrounds, it's what all the biotech, laboratory and supply companies do. Those companies have always done very well and continue to do so.

Why do you think biotech, laboratory and supply companies most of the time do not even look at pharmaceutical reps? One, they usually do not have a science background. Two, pharma sales is not true B2B sales and it would be impossible to teach a non-science major the hundreds of highly scientific products these companies sell without someone who has been trained for at least 4 years in a particular science.

If you think teaching someone enough science to cover all disease states, interactions between various organ systems, pathology, genetics, biochemistry, physiology and anatomy to sufficiently sell a pharmaceutical product to a doctor compared to just teaching a technical rep simple sales skills and technique than you are obviously not a science major. If you were, you would understand the sheer enormity of information a rep with a science background has at their disposal when compared with a "highly developed clinical knowledge" rep. There is no comparison. Product knowledge is product knowledge and nothing more. If you can not carry on a discussion outside your training you are not a true resource. It would be like going into battle with everything, but leaving your gun at home.
 






I unfortunately have to respectfully disagree with you once more. There are plenty of very technical people that also have very good sales ability. There is no difference in the number of good sales people based on background and training. It is innate as you suggest. So why not just hire good sales people with science backgrounds, it's what all the biotech, laboratory and supply companies do. Those companies have always done very well and continue to do so.

Why do you think biotech, laboratory and supply companies most of the time do not even look at pharmaceutical reps? One, they usually do not have a science background. Two, pharma sales is not true B2B sales and it would be impossible to teach a non-science major the hundreds of highly scientific products these companies sell without someone who has been trained for at least 4 years in a particular science.

If you think teaching someone enough science to cover all disease states, interactions between various organ systems, pathology, genetics, biochemistry, physiology and anatomy to sufficiently sell a pharmaceutical product to a doctor compared to just teaching a technical rep simple sales skills and technique than you are obviously not a science major. If you were, you would understand the sheer enormity of information a rep with a science background has at their disposal when compared with a "highly developed clinical knowledge" rep. There is no comparison. Product knowledge is product knowledge and nothing more. If you can not carry on a discussion outside your training you are not a true resource. It would be like going into battle with everything, but leaving your gun at home.

How much science knowledge do you need to say
"so doctor , you will be speaking at joes pizzeria for the
38th time & here is your $1500-2000 check "
That's about the only technical & sales ability you need with novartis
 












I unfortunately have to respectfully disagree with you once more. There are plenty of very technical people that also have very good sales ability. There is no difference in the number of good sales people based on background and training. It is innate as you suggest. So why not just hire good sales people with science backgrounds, it's what all the biotech, laboratory and supply companies do. Those companies have always done very well and continue to do so.

Why do you think biotech, laboratory and supply companies most of the time do not even look at pharmaceutical reps? One, they usually do not have a science background. Two, pharma sales is not true B2B sales and it would be impossible to teach a non-science major the hundreds of highly scientific products these companies sell without someone who has been trained for at least 4 years in a particular science.

If you think teaching someone enough science to cover all disease states, interactions between various organ systems, pathology, genetics, biochemistry, physiology and anatomy to sufficiently sell a pharmaceutical product to a doctor compared to just teaching a technical rep simple sales skills and technique than you are obviously not a science major. If you were, you would understand the sheer enormity of information a rep with a science background has at their disposal when compared with a "highly developed clinical knowledge" rep. There is no comparison. Product knowledge is product knowledge and nothing more. If you can not carry on a discussion outside your training you are not a true resource. It would be like going into battle with everything, but leaving your gun at home.

You are correct pharma is not true B2B sales. I successfully sold highly complex chemistries and systems with a business degree. Achieved the coveted spot of #1 rep in the country in my 1st year just to name a few achievements. I'm not saying this to brag only to emphasize a science background is not needed.

Look at the sales forces in many biotech companies GE, Boeing etc and you'll find many salespeople with business degrees not science degrees. We had one rep on our team who had a teaching degree and blew the socks off many of the more scientifically trained reps. As far as your comment about carrying on a discussion outside of my training, I always did that since info you receive from the company is rarely sufficient for an extended discussion. I also knew a lot about other subjects due to my Biotech background that someone with a science background is not exposed to unless they learn it first hand. Biotech scientific info is not part of the educational curriculum.

All this is really irrelevant now with pharma guidelines. Any expanded discussion is a liability which is what made this job lifeless and boring.
 






Oh and one more thing your mention of all the background info you need and large volumes of amassed knowledge. This is precisely why many,not all, scientific technically minded people do not do well in sales since they cannot get to the point, simplify and effectively communicate. They also tend to be monotone presenters with many other issues etc. etc.

For the record many Biotech firms have a mixture of science and no-science background reps yet the #1 criteria is can the person sell.
 






Let's face it this job is a soul sucking enterprise when you analyze what you are really trying to do. In most cases it's convince / bribe some practioner to use a branded med
that has negative consequences in the healthcare arena as well as for patients to the tune of tens of billions of dollars annually. Now if there are no generic equivalents then it wouldn't be an issue but to fleece grandmas & grandpas for something like exforge as an example when vastly cheaper generic losartan & amoldipine is available is a sucky scummy thing to do.

Aliskren itself , an answer for a question didn't need to be asked sucked $449 million this year & it had dangerous data so not only were patients , insurance & the govt ripped off financially but tekturna valturna etc had negative benefits

Same deal with the patch , reclast & on & on .

Yeah you may get a nice paycheck & perks but at the end of the day you ask WTF am I doing to society with this nonsense.

The fact that doctors have to be induced to prescribe Novartis meds is all the reason in the world why this is not a sales job in any legitimate respect & that the product has no merit above any other therapy generic or otherwise.

Finally the Pièce de résistance when your drug is not on formulary & they pressure you to pressure doctors write off formulary at an extrordinary cost to the patient yet when your drug is on formulary management expects you to pull 100% of the business & Vice Versa
NVS & the industry in general has absolutely no moral compass & zero regard for patients
 






I don't think it can be explained that simply and all one sided. There's good and bad. If I speak to the good-- medicines do save many lives and I'm happy to have morphine and anesthesia when I need an operation or headache medicine when I have a headache etc. etc. Yes there is bad side yet their is also innovation and good. It's not as black and white as you paint it. That being said as has been repeated over and over on cafe pharma so much so that it is now a clique, yes the job is stupid now given it's limitations.
 






being a pharma rep was very depressing. i tried for years to get in. once i was in, i quickly learned that it's an awful place to be. i lost so much respect for myself and as a result, slowly slipped into becoming a negative, depressed being. while i don't regret the years i spent as a rep (because i learned so much from leaving), i am a completely different person now that i'm out. it took me a year, but i am back to my old self. i enjoy spending time with others and people enjoy being around me. perhaps you have thicker skin than i do or you truly don't care that you do absolutely nothing for a career, but if you are thinking of leaving- do it. you wont regret it. your life is worth something, don't waste it being unhappy and unfulfilled.
 






Guys and Gals: It has been a great gig. Maybe the best part-time job in America. The gravy train is starting to come off of the rails, and it will be different moving forward. I just celebrated my 20th anniversary in pharma sales, and I have had a great time and have enjoyed working with some great people. I have heard people eulogizing the pharma industry for my entire career. There will always be reps in the field. We may all become contract reps, and we may have to cross a few more T's and dot a few more I's with all of the regulatory BS, but we will still be around. Don't get caught up in the negativity- there is plenty of that to go around in all industries around the world-pharma isn't special. Enjoy the moment and enjoy your customers and co-workers. If you get cut, find another job and move on. At least Novartis treats us well with severance packages. If you make this round of cuts, you might be good for a while. If you don't, you get a nice severance package for a consolation prize, and you can work towards finding another gig. The unemployment rate for college educated people is under 5%. If you truly can't stand this job, don't be a victim. Pharma has never had a "draft", forcing people to work in the industry. Life is too short to stay in a job you hate....
 






Guys and Gals: It has been a great gig. Maybe the best part-time job in America. The gravy train is starting to come off of the rails, and it will be different moving forward. I just celebrated my 20th anniversary in pharma sales, and I have had a great time and have enjoyed working with some great people. I have heard people eulogizing the pharma industry for my entire career. There will always be reps in the field. We may all become contract reps, and we may have to cross a few more T's and dot a few more I's with all of the regulatory BS, but we will still be around. Don't get caught up in the negativity- there is plenty of that to go around in all industries around the world-pharma isn't special. Enjoy the moment and enjoy your customers and co-workers. If you get cut, find another job and move on. At least Novartis treats us well with severance packages. If you make this round of cuts, you might be good for a while. If you don't, you get a nice severance package for a consolation prize, and you can work towards finding another gig. The unemployment rate for college educated people is under 5%. If you truly can't stand this job, don't be a victim. Pharma has never had a "draft", forcing people to work in the industry. Life is too short to stay in a job you hate....

There won't be many that " make the cut" Heard 75% possibly cut if not that many now than by the end of the year. The Novartis that we know know is gone. You will see less MD's, FLM's and of course reps.
 






being a pharma rep was very depressing. i tried for years to get in. once i was in, i quickly learned that it's an awful place to be. i lost so much respect for myself and as a result, slowly slipped into becoming a negative, depressed being. while i don't regret the years i spent as a rep (because i learned so much from leaving), i am a completely different person now that i'm out. it took me a year, but i am back to my old self. i enjoy spending time with others and people enjoy being around me. perhaps you have thicker skin than i do or you truly don't care that you do absolutely nothing for a career, but if you are thinking of leaving- do it. you wont regret it. your life is worth something, don't waste it being unhappy and unfulfilled.

I agree and to answer your post I do care. I am out and preparing for another career and could not be happier. May I also say I am glad you got through the storm it's not easy especially now during these times. I wish you peace and the best this life has to offer.
 






You are correct pharma is not true B2B sales. I successfully sold highly complex chemistries and systems with a business degree. Achieved the coveted spot of #1 rep in the country in my 1st year just to name a few achievements. I'm not saying this to brag only to emphasize a science background is not needed.

Look at the sales forces in many biotech companies GE, Boeing etc and you'll find many salespeople with business degrees not science degrees. We had one rep on our team who had a teaching degree and blew the socks off many of the more scientifically trained reps. As far as your comment about carrying on a discussion outside of my training, I always did that since info you receive from the company is rarely sufficient for an extended discussion. I also knew a lot about other subjects due to my Biotech background that someone with a science background is not exposed to unless they learn it first hand. Biotech scientific info is not part of the educational curriculum.

All this is really irrelevant now with pharma guidelines. Any expanded discussion is a liability which is what made this job lifeless and boring.

1. GE and Boeing are not biotech. They encompass engineering and other "tech" products, which can be learned by a non-science person.

2. Your biotech background in no way helps you to have a discussion around disease states with a physician outside of your Novartis training, only a science degree would do that...have no idea what point you were trying to make there. I worked biotech as a researcher, this is just not applicable to pharma sales discussions. For example, without looking up the answer, could you tell me what function pyruvic acid has in the body, its affects, how that relates to cholesterol, diet, exercise, metabolism and then tie all of that back into cardiovascular function, diabetes and even cancer. My guess would be you couldn't. If you sell a drug related to any of the above mentioned, this information would make you a more credible resource, which would instantly develop a deeper more respected connection to your customer...why? Because now you are talking their language and not just reading off your glossy about your drug and your disease state. It goes way beyond those things with a physician and their patients. It all ties together.

3. You say that technical people have to much information, are monotone and have trouble getting to the point...interesting. Last I checked physicians are some of the most technically trained individuals and have a wealth of information. They are some of the best communicators, succinct, dynamic and able to convey very technical information in a very small amount of time. It is also interesting that some of the training we receive at Novartis involves SOAPing articles, journals and studies, which is modeled on how physicians communicate to each other. Seems weird that non-science business majors would have to learn how to communicate like a technically trained individual...interesting again.

4. Who do doctors respect and seek out when looking for the latest information regarding studies, disease state information and new breakthroughs? Answer - not pharma reps. They talk to piers, thought leaders in their respective fields and specialists. Why? Because they possess the most information, can communicate it on the their level and discuss anything else related to the topic in just as great detail.

5. I never said you can't be successful as a non-science major. I am saying that if I had two people with the same innate sales ability (you mentioned earlier that people have this ability and I agree, but then you go on to say that most technical people aren't good sales people. Which one is it? Education and curriculum play no part in innate personality and sales ability) and one was a business major and one was a science major, I would choose the science major every time. You just get more bang for your buck. Simple as that.