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Supreme Court Won't Review Sales Rep Overtime

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Supreme Court Won’t Review Sales Rep Overtime

By Ed Silverman // February 28th, 2011 // 12:17 pm

In what is being hailed as a victory for sales reps, the US Supreme Court has decided not to review lawsuits in which a lower court decided that Novartis and Schering-Plough should have paid overtime to its sales teams. The move means that still other lawsuits filed against several other drugmakers are likely to yield the same outcome, possibly prompting changes in the way sales reps are compensated (see the court denials here and here).

Here’s the background: a federal appeals court last July ruled Novartis reps are not exempt from overtime provisions of the Fair Labor Standards Act and, therefore, should be paid overtime. The same court also upheld a similar decision reached two years ago against Schering-Plough by a federal court, which denied a motion to dismiss a case brought against the drugmaker by some of its sales reps (see the rulings here and here).

The decision against Novartis and Schering-Plough was made by the Second Circuit, which presides over territory where other lawsuits have been filed against Pfizer, GlaxoSmithKline, Abbott Laboratories and Bristol-Myers Squibb. As a result, the Supreme Court decision suggests that sales reps are likely to win their cases in these jurisdictions. However, this will not effect, for now, a recent ruling by the Ninth Circuit, which ruled in favor of Glaxo that sales reps do not qualify for overtime pay.

“The specter of a Supreme Court review is greatly diminished, although not eliminated, because the court could take it up with some other case in the future,” says Charles Joseph, who represents sales reps in many of the lawsuits against drugmakers. “For now, the Second Circuit decision remains the law of the land in the Second Circuit. “I do not understand how these drugmakers will not have to immediately start to change their practices.”

The Second Circuit found that sales reps are not exempt from overtime provisions of the Fair Labor Standards Act. The FLSA’s overtime compensation requirement doesn’t apply to employees who work as outside salespeople, but the law does require employers to pay overtime for hours worked beyond 40 hours a week, unless a FLSA exemption applies. What are those exemptions? If an employee’s primary duty is to obtain orders or contracts (as defined by the statute) and regularly does so away from the employer’s place of business.

Drugmakers argue their sales reps are, indeed, outside salespeople who close sales because the primary customer is the physician. But in 2009, the US Department of Labor added an unexpected twist to the debate by filing an amicus brief with a federal appeals court contending that a lower court was wrong to toss their lawsuit (see here).
 




Very interesting. If this guy is right about pharma companies, including BMS, having to pay overtime for hours worked over 40/week, I am concerned about how they will respond. I do not think they are going to allow a reps overall compensation to increase, so I fear they will move to decrease bonus targets, or in the worst case scenario to just cut back on head count.

I know right away someone will post on here that reps only work 25 hours/week anyway, so what's the big deal. Perhaps, but I know I work over 40 hours/week, due to the drive times involved in my territory, as well as conducting and administrating iplan programs, point responsibilities, post call notes(not enough time to enter after each call, or will not be able to attain 8.5 calls/day), expense reports, vacation trackers, creating and updating business plans, ordering and managing samples, etc., etc. Much of this simply has to be done outside 8-5. Plus, by their insistence that reps are expected to be "in the field" from 8 to 5, it is an admission that a lot of the work tasks have to be done outside those hours.

Since there are other companies mentioned in the article that would also come under the same ruling, that may give them some cover, if other companies do likewise. However, many other companies apparently are not under this ruling, so that may mitigate the affected companies' ability to reduce rep compensation. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. My guess is their initial response will be to just try to ignore it as long as they can.
 




"I know right away someone will post on here that reps only work 25 hours/week anyway, so what's the big deal. Perhaps, but I know I work over 40 hours/week, due to the drive times involved in my territory, as well as conducting and administrating iplan programs, point responsibilities, post call notes(not enough time to enter after each call, or will not be able to attain 8.5 calls/day), expense reports, vacation trackers, creating and updating business plans, ordering and managing samples, etc., etc. Much of this simply has to be done outside 8-5. Plus, by their insistence that reps are expected to be "in the field" from 8 to 5, it is an admission that a lot of the work tasks have to be done outside those hours. "

What a fucking joke! This is called your job. Oh, you are so overworked, poor thing. Those iPlan inputs are so exhausting! Pussy! Get a real job, where you sweat and work your ass off for 1/2 of what overpaid pharma reps get.

You are PATHETIC!
 




"I know right away someone will post on here that reps only work 25 hours/week anyway, so what's the big deal. Perhaps, but I know I work over 40 hours/week, due to the drive times involved in my territory, as well as conducting and administrating iplan programs, point responsibilities, post call notes(not enough time to enter after each call, or will not be able to attain 8.5 calls/day), expense reports, vacation trackers, creating and updating business plans, ordering and managing samples, etc., etc. Much of this simply has to be done outside 8-5. Plus, by their insistence that reps are expected to be "in the field" from 8 to 5, it is an admission that a lot of the work tasks have to be done outside those hours. "

What a fucking joke! This is called your job. Oh, you are so overworked, poor thing. Those iPlan inputs are so exhausting! Pussy! Get a real job, where you sweat and work your ass off for 1/2 of what overpaid pharma reps get.

You are PATHETIC!

Hey jerk, I wasn't complaining. Of course it's a great gig. But what I said is true. I was just trying to analyze how BMS might respond to this ruling. But, no, don't respond to the issue. Just reflexively issue an immediate attack.
 




"I know right away someone will post on here that reps only work 25 hours/week anyway, so what's the big deal. Perhaps, but I know I work over 40 hours/week, due to the drive times involved in my territory, as well as conducting and administrating iplan programs, point responsibilities, post call notes(not enough time to enter after each call, or will not be able to attain 8.5 calls/day), expense reports, vacation trackers, creating and updating business plans, ordering and managing samples, etc., etc. Much of this simply has to be done outside 8-5. Plus, by their insistence that reps are expected to be "in the field" from 8 to 5, it is an admission that a lot of the work tasks have to be done outside those hours. "

What a fucking joke! This is called your job. Oh, you are so overworked, poor thing. Those iPlan inputs are so exhausting! Pussy! Get a real job, where you sweat and work your ass off for 1/2 of what overpaid pharma reps get.

You are PATHETIC!


People like you should spend less time here and somewhere you can be productive. It's obvious you aren't working enough at your job because you have so much time coming here and telling reps they're overpaid and useless. Other than that, FUCK OFF!
 




"I know right away someone will post on here that reps only work 25 hours/week anyway, so what's the big deal. Perhaps, but I know I work over 40 hours/week, due to the drive times involved in my territory, as well as conducting and administrating iplan programs, point responsibilities, post call notes(not enough time to enter after each call, or will not be able to attain 8.5 calls/day), expense reports, vacation trackers, creating and updating business plans, ordering and managing samples, etc., etc. Much of this simply has to be done outside 8-5. Plus, by their insistence that reps are expected to be "in the field" from 8 to 5, it is an admission that a lot of the work tasks have to be done outside those hours. "

What a fucking joke! This is called your job. Oh, you are so overworked, poor thing. Those iPlan inputs are so exhausting! Pussy! Get a real job, where you sweat and work your ass off for 1/2 of what overpaid pharma reps get.

You are PATHETIC!

Is that right? Like most critics you choose to keep your profession hidden. Cast stones then run and hide.
 




I said PATHETIC and the past 3 posts show it to be true.

Defending this job, trying to convince yourself and others that you actually are worth what they pay you?

PATHETIC.
 












That was a great original post.

Ignore those who just want to insult.

I appreciate the intelligent discussion and opinions on this interesting topic.

I agree, if I wasn't so exhausted from updating my vacation tracker, inputting 2 iPlan lunches per week and driving all those miles to see doctors, I would have time to participate in this discussion - but I'm beat!
 




Thanks for the original post - I think this ruling + the sunshine laws will have a big impact on our jobs.

We will be even more micro-managed. Strict hourly reporting of everything we do.

What do you think BMS will do when they are forced to pay overtime to reps and what will doctors do when every lunch, every honorarium, every sample they receive is tallied and made public knowledge?

We will be squeezed out by our employers and our customers - 2012
 




Thanks for the original post - I think this ruling + the sunshine laws will have a big impact on our jobs.

We will be even more micro-managed. Strict hourly reporting of everything we do.

What do you think BMS will do when they are forced to pay overtime to reps and what will doctors do when every lunch, every honorarium, every sample they receive is tallied and made public knowledge?

We will be squeezed out by our employers and our customers - 2012

Maybe the overtime issue will finally shine some light on the farcical world of " pharma sales". Reps are grossly overpaid for what they actually do.
 




Maybe the overtime issue will finally shine some light on the farcical world of " pharma sales". Reps are grossly overpaid for what they actually do.

Don't you ever get tired of spouting the same old thing over and over? Do you understand basic economics? Last time I checked we work in a free, capitalistic econonomic system. Companies only pay their employees to make a profit. Anybody "grossly overpaying" a worker won't be in business long. The rep job was paid well because they returned profit to the company.

I'll agree that marginal profit is being reduced all the time, but it is still there. When it gets less than their pay - wages will go down, that's the way it works. Don't worry - the sales rep's compensation will get down to what you make soon enough.
 




Thanks for the original post - I think this ruling + the sunshine laws will have a big impact on our jobs.

We will be even more micro-managed. Strict hourly reporting of everything we do.

I am hoping they will not want to pay overtime, and will instead provide some office time during the week, like they do for managers. Just a few hours would help.
 




I am hoping they will not want to pay overtime, and will instead provide some office time during the week, like they do for managers. Just a few hours would help.

This post proves the idiocy of the average Pharma rep. Office time? If you are so stupid that you can't get 99% of your work done and input between 8 & 5, you only prove why you are GROSSLY OVERPAID. Unbelievable!
 




Don't you ever get tired of spouting the same old thing over and over? Do you understand basic economics? Last time I checked we work in a free, capitalistic econonomic system. Companies only pay their employees to make a profit. Anybody "grossly overpaying" a worker won't be in business long. The rep job was paid well because they returned profit to the company.

I'll agree that marginal profit is being reduced all the time, but it is still there. When it gets less than their pay - wages will go down, that's the way it works. Don't worry - the sales rep's compensation will get down to what you make soon enough.

Ok professor, the only reason reps are at the pay level currently enjoyed is due to the obscene profit margins of Pharma - which are withering. They were never worth their pay. For what they do it's insane. CEOs are finally catching on. Ask yourself, how much Plavix sales was due to reps? Maybe 5%. Face the truth.
 








O.K. post number 16. If your so smart you should be running the company. How much should they get paid?? Well if you go according to what UPS drivers make- A senior driver makes anywhere from 80-100k salary with better benefits then we have(except company car)..
 




O.K. post number 16. If your so smart you should be running the company. How much should they get paid?? Well if you go according to what UPS drivers make- A senior driver makes anywhere from 80-100k salary with better benefits then we have(except company car)..

A typical PSR or CSR rep should get $40k + car and benefits.
 




This post proves the idiocy of the average Pharma rep. Office time? If you are so stupid that you can't get 99% of your work done and input between 8 & 5, you only prove why you are GROSSLY OVERPAID. Unbelievable!

How big is your territory? Yeah, right, drive down the road and do all admin work, email, voice mail, and everything else at 70 mph. That would be real smart. Some reps have 3 or more hours/day wind shield time.