Retired op in Florida stands his ground





Not to nitpick here, but this isn't "stand your ground". From all appearances, the guy wasn't under any real threat so "stand your ground" doesn't apply. This is just a case of someone who should have had proper training in the use of firearms and forgot that misusing them in any way is likely to result in serious criminal charges.

In short, the guy got stupid and ignored everything they tell you in Concealed Carry classes. In all such cases, whether you are right or wrong, firing a shot will probably cost far more than the cost of a new movie ticket.
 




OK America, time for a reality check.

If even a retired police captain is unable to responsibly carry a firearm in public, why on earth should anyone accept the argument that regular citizens should be trusted to walk around armed?

Without the gun, the cop would have just moved to a different seat. With the gun, the coward blows away a husband and father. This is gun crazy NRA America at its worst.

The reality is guns kill people. When you have more guns floating around in the public, more people die. Simple as that.
 




Breakingnews said:
OK America, time for a reality check.

If even a retired police captain is unable to responsibly carry a firearm in public, why on earth should anyone accept the argument that regular citizens should be trusted to walk around armed?

Without the gun, the cop would have just moved to a different seat. With the gun, the coward blows away a husband and father. This is gun crazy NRA America at its worst.

The reality is guns kill people. When you have more guns floating around in the public, more people die. Simple as that.
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Sorry you didn't check any stats before you posted this. Just FYI, crimes committed by concealed carry holders are pretty rare -- less than one percent of all the people who carry them. There is probably a reason for that -- most of them have to take special training to get the permit.

and, if more guns equals more deaths, then how do you account for the fact that there are more guns than ever, and they are selling better than ever, but the gun crime rate has been steadily dropping?

On the other hand, lots of people are killed by cops. This is just another case. Maybe we ought to outlaw cops.
 




I know this will probably completely torque your brain beyond all its engineering limits but, when I was a kid in junior high, we used to carry guns on campus every day. In fact, I was on the school rifle team and some of the schools had shooting ranges in the back of the gymnasium behind the basketball court.

I am sorry to interrupt any Chicken Little panics that may be in progress, but there was never even a single safety incident. Lots and lots of kids (and adults) with all kinds of guns (even big bad former military weapons) on school campuses, and never a problem. Imagine that. On the other hand, we had a teacher who lost a finger in wood shop.
 




wm97 said:
Sorry you didn't check any stats before you posted this. Just FYI, crimes committed by concealed carry holders are pretty rare -- less than one percent of all the people who carry them. There is probably a reason for that -- most of them have to take special training to get the permit.

and, if more guns equals more deaths, then how do you account for the fact that there are more guns than ever, and they are selling better than ever, but the gun crime rate has been steadily dropping?

On the other hand, lots of people are killed by cops. This is just another case. Maybe we ought to outlaw cops.
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You also need to check the stats - Perhaps this is a good place to start:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/22/gun-deaths-us-newtown_n_2935686.html

Your 'outlaw cops' statement is a very poor analogy.

BTW, My daughter is on the Rifle Team at her high school and I am all for responsible gun ownership and use - This case was far from either.
 




Vagitarian said:
Agree and I should have hit the 'sarcasm' button. What I was referring to were a couple of reports that Florida was looking into whether SYG would apply. I unfortunately, I think many people are claiming SYG when it isn't the case. It's becoming a legal maneuver and really needs to be better defined (IMHO).
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I will have my sarcasm meter recalibrated. I think it is fairly well defined. It is just that this guy got incredibly stupid. Shooting someone over texting? Far better to walk away and see the movie another time. As a matter of fact, the same rule would apply if it was only a fist fight -- walk away and get another ticket.
 




wm97 said:
Not to nitpick here, but this isn't "stand your ground". From all appearances, the guy wasn't under any real threat so "stand your ground" doesn't apply. This is just a case of someone who should have had proper training in the use of firearms and forgot that misusing them in any way is likely to result in serious criminal charges.

In short, the guy got stupid and ignored everything they tell you in Concealed Carry classes. In all such cases, whether you are right or wrong, firing a shot will probably cost far more than the cost of a new movie ticket.
Click to expand...

I should have hit the 'sarcasm' button. What I was referring to were a couple of reports that Florida was looking into whether SYG would apply. I unfortunately, I think many people are claiming SYG when it isn't the case. It's becoming a legal maneuver and really needs to be better defined. My prediction is that the Legal Wheel of Tampa will do everything possible to protect the shooter simply because he's a cop. They're are already reports that they are looking into whether he was hit by some popcorn that was thrown. Do you seriously think proper 'training' would have prevented this? I mean who pulls a gun on someone texting? Then who pulls the trigger on that person? This was a man with anger issues and had he been you or me - we'd be behind bars for a long, long time.
 




wm97 said:
I will have my sarcasm meter recalibrated. I think it is fairly well defined. It is just that this guy got incredibly stupid. Shooting someone over texting? Far better to walk away and see the movie another time. As a matter of fact, the same rule would apply if it was only a fist fight -- walk away and get another ticket.
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And then the question arises, when is a fistfight just a fistfight? We've already seen one case in Florida where someone was in a fistfight, shot the other person and walked - because he said he felt his life was in danger.
 




















Vagitarian said:
And then the question arises, when is a fistfight just a fistfight? We've already seen one case in Florida where someone was in a fistfight, shot the other person and walked - because he said he felt his life was in danger.
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Will you ever tire of misrepresenting Zimmerman? LOL!

The case was adjudicated, rightly decided and didn't even involve stand your ground in the defense. Plain ole self defense did the trick.

Btw, being sucker punched in an unprovoked attack doesn't really qualify as a fistfight.
 








Saw a story on this and this today and this seems to be almost a case of early Alzheimer's. Apparently it was a pretty recent change that came about this man - where things would annoy him and he couldn't let go of it. He wasn't like a lifelong gun freak.
 




Breakingnews said:
OK America, time for a reality check.

If even a retired police captain is unable to responsibly carry a firearm in public, why on earth should anyone accept the argument that regular citizens should be trusted to walk around armed?

Without the gun, the cop would have just moved to a different seat. With the gun, the coward blows away a husband and father. This is gun crazy NRA America at its worst.

The reality is guns kill people. When you have more guns floating around in the public, more people die. Simple as that.
Click to expand...

This was a retired cop. Many cops have mental problems and control issues. He may have retired because of mental problems or they could have developed after retirement, especially a captain who no longer has the power of a command position. This was not a run of the mill citizen with CC privileges.
 




Walking Eagle said:
This was a retired cop. Many cops have mental problems and control issues. He may have retired because of mental problems or they could have developed after retirement, especially a captain who no longer has the power of a command position. This was not a run of the mill citizen with CC privileges.
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Maybe he was like George C. Scott's Character, in "The New Centurions."
 




The guy he shot was texting his toddler.

I don't care what illness he has, he should not be carrying a weapon into a theater, unless he lives out in Colorado.
 




Walking Eagle said:
This was a retired cop. Many cops have mental problems and control issues. He may have retired because of mental problems or they could have developed after retirement, especially a captain who no longer has the power of a command position. This was not a run of the mill citizen with CC privileges.
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mental problems and control issues Those seem to be the major problems in this country. Guns should not be so easily excisable. There should be insurance put on every gun sold in this country.
 




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