Reprocessing Study

Quote
Anonymous said:
With the exception of the Enseal acquisition, what else has Ethicon Endo purchased? The purchasing of start up companies isn't a bad idea, it's good business. Look at Covidien, they purchased Valleylab and now Stryker with the purchase of Ascent. They're both huge moneymakers now. Acquisitions are part of the game and are smart business.
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Buying start ups shows that you're not capable of developing on your own. You've become too bogged down with policies, bureaucracies, and arrogance. The only way you're going to launch anything new is to buy it. JJ has a history of buying or contracting out. Their development team is a joke.
 






Anonymous said:
Buying start ups shows that you're not capable of developing on your own. You've become too bogged down with policies, bureaucracies, and arrogance. The only way you're going to launch anything new is to buy it. JJ has a history of buying or contracting out. Their development team is a joke.
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You didn't answer the original question, other than the recent Enseal acquisition, what else has EES recently acquired?
 






First of all, thank you for this very amusing banter. I just wanted to say that it's funny how quick you Ethicon reps are to defend yourselves when every other thread on here is about how miserable and crappy your company is.
Now to the guy that is dogging acquisitions, where if at all did you get an education? And in what? Any good business person knows that buying up good competition is the best way to go. Why waste our money trying to beat you when we can buy you. Who cares about being able to develop something? I can't "develop" a Mercedes but I can sure as hell buy one because I'm good at what I do.
Once again, thank you for your posts. I always know I can come to the Ethicon forum for a good laugh while relaxing in front of the telly.
 












I may be the only Ascent rep to say I am with that company. My best friend works for Ethicon and turned me on to this thread. The one good thing I can say about Ascent and Ethicon reps, is we are all passionate about our own employers and that is why there are so many stupid arguments. We both believe in our products (yes we do actually manufacture products also) for good reason. Him and I have had stupid arguments about the recent flyer put out by Ethicon, but at the end of the day we all just want to kick ass and take of our families. So tomorrow I will be tying one one to good competition while sitting in a drunken stupor at the Saint Patty's Day Parade.
Then between watching NCAA I will be back to defending myself against this marketing scheme until the next lawsuit is settled.

HAPPY SELLING.
 






THIS is the best statement on this entire thread:

"Oh, by the way, does the reprocessing company fund training programs for your physicians, residents, and nurses?"

What the former Pfizer pharma rep is really saying is:

"Oh by the way, does the reprocessing company pay huge amounts of money to set up "programs" under the guise of education to buy business from doctors, residents (get em while they are young) and nurses?"

Every company does it it's called marketing dollars, but IF you truly believe what you are doing is a service to healthcare you are smokin dope. Dope.
 












Anonymous said:
First of all, thank you for this very amusing banter. I just wanted to say that it's funny how quick you Ethicon reps are to defend yourselves when every other thread on here is about how miserable and crappy your company is.
Now to the guy that is dogging acquisitions, where if at all did you get an education? And in what? Any good business person knows that buying up good competition is the best way to go. Why waste our money trying to beat you when we can buy you. Who cares about being able to develop something? I can't "develop" a Mercedes but I can sure as hell buy one because I'm good at what I do.
Once again, thank you for your posts. I always know I can come to the Ethicon forum for a good laugh while relaxing in front of the telly.
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You're right, buying other companies IS good business practice, especially if you can't beat them in the marketplace. I never said it wasn't

I can't "develop" a Mercedes but I can sure as hell buy one because I'm good at what I do.
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What the hell does this mean? I can't develop an Ethicon product, but I can afford to buy one? This makes no sense.

You didn't answer the original question, other than the recent Enseal acquisition, what else has EES recently acquired?
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In addition to SurgRx: Acclarent, Mentor, Cougar, HealthMedia. It's not a matter of "recent", it's a matter of standard operation.

You guys crack me up. I mean really, do you really believe the garbage you're forced to spew.
 






In addition to SurgRx: Acclarent, Mentor, Cougar, HealthMedia. It's not a matter of "recent", it's a matter of standard operation.

You guys crack me up. I mean really, do you really believe the garbage you're forced to spew.[/QUOTE]

If you're gonna bash EES, at least get your facts correct. EES did not purchase...Acclarent, Mentor, Cougar, or Healthmedia.
 
























Anonymous said:
I can tell that the ascent reos are all over this thread. Don't flatter yourselves bc you were bought by stryker. Just as your company doesn't invest in its own rd. Your company does not invest in you. That is why your not paid shit nor treated well. So stop talking junk.

You guys talk as if your paid on growth or making real dough. I'm not blowing the Ethicon horn either. This is my step to a great opportunity for my future, but I hate it when you reprocessing guys start talking trash, especially after you come rolling out with a bunch of my product from the garbage and I mean no disrespect bc we are all trying our best to make a good living for our families.

I have met some of you reprocessed reps that I thought could have done much better than selling reprocessed.

But some of you guys rub me the wrong way.

Grow up!!
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Not sure what you mean by "I thought could have done much better than selling reprocessed"? Unfortunately, Ascent doesn't invest in high level sales talent and they make about 1/3 as much as we do. They have their reps perform the logistics of product collections and we have Surical Tech's perform that for us so we can sell. We have all kinds of former device reps and Vp's on payroll from Stryker, Depuy, Ethicon, Boston Sci, J&J, etc. Pay of 130-160K is average for a smaller market such as a 1.5mm territory. Reps in larger metro's have over 3mm territories and at least 30% of reps are making well over 200K. Not bad for a bunch of trash collectors. The former device VP's and Reps on our payroll state that this is a much more dynamic, sophisticated and rewarding sell. After all, how many device reps get to sell to the C-Suite level and educate, design & implement procedures and policies with Directors, Managers, and Physician level the next? How many device reps have made a pitch to a CFO, VP, CNO, CEO, CMO? How many device reps get invited to present at Med-Exec meetings? We are considered a consultant for the facility and it is challenging and rewarding.. Of course we are not the device experts as you are but we represent over 12,000 devices. We are experts on the science and safety of the devices and FDA regulations so we can combat the misleading and false information that some manufactures print in "studies" to combat reprocessing. We are familiar with the Manufacturer IFU's for the high profile devices. Most of us know how the devices are used as we do spend time in the OR with the Surgeons to answer their questions/concerns. Many hospitals reprocess their own instruments everyday by their CS departments and reuse on patients and doesnt come close to the cleanliness we achieve by FDA regulations. Better patient care is derived from having more capital available to invest in new technology and maintain FTE's for better patient care. Why pay $60 for a trocar when you can pay $25 and both have a FDA 510K. Why pay $2500 for an AcuNav catheter when you can pay $750? Ethicon is losing their shorts to reprocessing and instead of concentrating on building stronger relationships they would rather resort to disparaging their competition (everyone knows where that will get you) by providing misinformation and false and misleading "studies". One thing to remember, FDA is the same governing body who issued you your 510K and issued our 510K. Their is no reason for patient consent when the devices are substantially equivalent, both CMS and FDA's stance. It is a facility perogative whatever FDA approved device they chose to utilize. No different than using Ethicon trocar over Autosuture or Applied. Same clinical outcome without compromising patient safety. If you understood the science behind reprocessing I am sure you wouldnt have a negative take on it besides that it reduces your commissions. Do you think you are getting a new device when you get your colonoscopy? No, but there are procedures in place to clean it according to the FDA for reuse. As the manufacturer, you decide to issue the device as a SUD. Now, we have to pick up the ball and make it a reusable device and go through R&D for validation testing for the FDA to issue clearance for the device and it has to show that it can be cleaned down to FDA standards, be substanially equivalent by testing platics, polymers, tensile strength, and then functionally tested to perform the same. Did I mention it is environmentally responsible and reduces red bag waste??? Sorry that this practice is gaining much momentum and cuts into your pockets but we are all salesman and I dont need to make 300K to be fulfilled. I know I am just as competent as the other device reps out there and could sell most anything but I believe in my industry and I dont consider this a stepping stone job. Just two different types of sell. Best of luck to you.
 






So eloquently written.

But, I call your b.s. I'm not saying that what you stated about your job has no truth.

I worked for Ascent. You are not selling to c-suite administrators or execs daily. Your dm and rsm does that. You may sit in and adlib on those meetings, but don't juice yourself here.

Not saying what "Ethicon" jokers are doing is grand in any fashion.

One poster was correct Ascent treats you guys like garbage, but the experience is an awesome steppping stone if spun correctly.

I was able to make the jump to olympus from ascent.
 






Anonymous said:
Not sure what you mean by "I thought could have done much better than selling reprocessed"? Unfortunately, Ascent doesn't invest in high level sales talent and they make about 1/3 as much as we do. They have their reps perform the logistics of product collections and we have Surical Tech's perform that for us so we can sell. We have all kinds of former device reps and Vp's on payroll from Stryker, Depuy, Ethicon, Boston Sci, J&J, etc. Pay of 130-160K is average for a smaller market such as a 1.5mm territory. Reps in larger metro's have over 3mm territories and at least 30% of reps are making well over 200K. Not bad for a bunch of trash collectors. The former device VP's and Reps on our payroll state that this is a much more dynamic, sophisticated and rewarding sell. After all, how many device reps get to sell to the C-Suite level and educate, design & implement procedures and policies with Directors, Managers, and Physician level the next? How many device reps have made a pitch to a CFO, VP, CNO, CEO, CMO? How many device reps get invited to present at Med-Exec meetings? We are considered a consultant for the facility and it is challenging and rewarding.. Of course we are not the device experts as you are but we represent over 12,000 devices. We are experts on the science and safety of the devices and FDA regulations so we can combat the misleading and false information that some manufactures print in "studies" to combat reprocessing. We are familiar with the Manufacturer IFU's for the high profile devices. Most of us know how the devices are used as we do spend time in the OR with the Surgeons to answer their questions/concerns. Many hospitals reprocess their own instruments everyday by their CS departments and reuse on patients and doesnt come close to the cleanliness we achieve by FDA regulations. Better patient care is derived from having more capital available to invest in new technology and maintain FTE's for better patient care. Why pay $60 for a trocar when you can pay $25 and both have a FDA 510K. Why pay $2500 for an AcuNav catheter when you can pay $750? Ethicon is losing their shorts to reprocessing and instead of concentrating on building stronger relationships they would rather resort to disparaging their competition (everyone knows where that will get you) by providing misinformation and false and misleading "studies". One thing to remember, FDA is the same governing body who issued you your 510K and issued our 510K. Their is no reason for patient consent when the devices are substantially equivalent, both CMS and FDA's stance. It is a facility perogative whatever FDA approved device they chose to utilize. No different than using Ethicon trocar over Autosuture or Applied. Same clinical outcome without compromising patient safety. If you understood the science behind reprocessing I am sure you wouldnt have a negative take on it besides that it reduces your commissions. Do you think you are getting a new device when you get your colonoscopy? No, but there are procedures in place to clean it according to the FDA for reuse. As the manufacturer, you decide to issue the device as a SUD. Now, we have to pick up the ball and make it a reusable device and go through R&D for validation testing for the FDA to issue clearance for the device and it has to show that it can be cleaned down to FDA standards, be substanially equivalent by testing platics, polymers, tensile strength, and then functionally tested to perform the same. Did I mention it is environmentally responsible and reduces red bag waste??? Sorry that this practice is gaining much momentum and cuts into your pockets but we are all salesman and I dont need to make 300K to be fulfilled. I know I am just as competent as the other device reps out there and could sell most anything but I believe in my industry and I dont consider this a stepping stone job. Just two different types of sell. Best of luck to you.
Click to expand...

While you spent 3 hours writing all this, I was in the OR taking away yet another one of your accounts.
 






This was interesting to read. As a patient I do not care the cost to the hospital or to the reps. I do not care if the hospital uses reprocessed equipment. All I know is I will be telling my doc I want new, clean instruments used on me. My ins is paying for my surgery so the hospital will get paid. If they used reprocessed equiment does my ins have to pay less? They should pay less for second hand equipment and I should legally have the right to know. I hope the news does a story on this because it is scary.
 












Anonymous said:
This was interesting to read. As a patient I do not care the cost to the hospital or to the reps. I do not care if the hospital uses reprocessed equipment. All I know is I will be telling my doc I want new, clean instruments used on me. My ins is paying for my surgery so the hospital will get paid. If they used reprocessed equiment does my ins have to pay less? They should pay less for second hand equipment and I should legally have the right to know. I hope the news does a story on this because it is scary.
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In one simple paragraph, this person single handily summed up the problem with healthcare today. They have no idea what they are paying for and don't bother asking either.

Reprocessed is a huge problem b/c the equipment isn't designed to be reprocessed. It may be clean, but will it work? Maybe. Maybe not. Are you ok taking that chance because the hospital is trying to make a little money after they're being raped by Ethicon from what they charge?
 






Anonymous said:
In one simple paragraph, this person single handily summed up the problem with healthcare today. They have no idea what they are paying for and don't bother asking either.

Personally, if I am the patient and I am going to get charged the same (which is what hospitals are doing) regardless of the device is new or second hand, give me the new device.

The reprocessed device might cost half as a new device but does that cost savings get passed onto the patient? Nope. They get charged the same as a new device.
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Anonymous said:
Anonymous said:
In one simple paragraph, this person single handily summed up the problem with healthcare today. They have no idea what they are paying for and don't bother asking either.

Personally, if I am the patient and I am going to get charged the same (which is what hospitals are doing) regardless of the device is new or second hand, give me the new device.

The reprocessed device might cost half as a new device but does that cost savings get passed onto the patient? Nope. They get charged the same as a new device.
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It really depends. Sometimes it does and sometimes it doesnt. I know many hospitals use a blended price. If the device new is $100 and reprocessed is $40 and the device yield if 3 times for a total of 4 uses then the Hospital will use blended pricing of $55 for the device. Other Hospitals will charge $100 period. It's not like the patient is paying for each individual device anyways. They are basically paying a copay for the surgery. Their reimbursement for a lap chole might be $4500 from an insurance company and if it costs them $10,000 or $4000, the hospital gets the same reimbursement level.

By the way, the patient is already having devices that have been reused from other patients. It is no different reusing a reprocessed device than a reusable device that has been cleaned at the facility. No difference from a reusable lap grasper that has been cleaned by the facility or a reprocessed grasper that was once a SUD but now has the 510K to be used as a multiuse device under FDA guidelines.
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