Reprocessing Story on TV

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Think about it, yes we all hate reprocessing, BUT hospitals were reprocessing way BEFORE these companies came about. They used and still do, reusable devices whixh they reprocess themselves. Why would we go and attack what a lot of our customers do with their funds? Yeah great concept, lets go and really piss off our customer.
 






Educate yourself a little bit. Devices the hospital reprocesses are designed for that purpose. EES stance is a SUD is a SUD. There is a big difference between a resposable device and a reprocessed device. Even the FDA states that while they approve of it, they do view our items as High Risk. Of course these are the same people who brought us Fen-Phen and a host of other items which turned out to be dangerous.

But again, if our customers aren't ashamed of it, why not consent the patient? Why not pass on the savings? And don't give me medicare payments and crap. My hospitals are reporting record earnings at the expense of the patients.
 






Sucks to be you ethicon rep. Maybe your company should stop making all of your devices in Mexico, then maybe they would not suck so bad. At least the reprocessed devices are made in the United States.

Anonymous said:
Educate yourself a little bit. Devices the hospital reprocesses are designed for that purpose. EES stance is a SUD is a SUD. There is a big difference between a resposable device and a reprocessed device. Even the FDA states that while they approve of it, they do view our items as High Risk. Of course these are the same people who brought us Fen-Phen and a host of other items which turned out to be dangerous.

But again, if our customers aren't ashamed of it, why not consent the patient? Why not pass on the savings? And don't give me medicare payments and crap. My hospitals are reporting record earnings at the expense of the patients.
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Reprocessing is a reliable practice that has saved my hospital system over $2m annually. If Ethicon and the other OEMs stepped to the plate and matched those savings, I would convert my system away from using Reprocessed in a heart beat. I have not yet seen one OEM come forward with solid evidence that Reprocessed devices pose a credible threat to patient safety. I've had a lot of numbers presented to me but the fact remains that the Reprocessing Industry has continued to get stronger and stronger while OEMs continue to throw more money at "crafty" anti-reprocessing marketing ads.

Come up with something meaningful and bring it to the proper authorities to put a stop to reprocessing. Otherwise, leave my surgeons alone and watch your bottom line shrink!
 






use the reusable from olympus.
But other poster if YOUR hospital ...... Like you would be on this site ..... come clean MR/MRS reprocessing rep tooting your horn.
I dont know how it happens but for some reason at MY hospital the OR techs bend or break the instruments , of course not on purpose
 






Anonymous said:
use the reusable from olympus.
But other poster if YOUR hospital ...... Like you would be on this site ..... come clean MR/MRS reprocessing rep tooting your horn.
I dont know how it happens but for some reason at MY hospital the OR techs bend or break the instruments , of course not on purpose
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I posted about my hospital and I'm not a reprocessing rep. I led our hospital system's reprocessing initiative as well as manaed our EES contract so I'm well versed on both sides of the reprocessing argument. Time for any OEM rep bad-mouthing reprocessing while on our property is coming to a close! I feel bad for the OEM rep that continues to think they are out-smarting the system by telling my OR staff and surgeons what to say to get "corporate" to stop pushing reprocessing. Each person this rep talks to is a potential leak back to me and if we get their name that rep is out of here. Period. Good luck!
 






Anonymous said:
I posted about my hospital and I'm not a reprocessing rep. I led our hospital system's reprocessing initiative as well as manaed our EES contract so I'm well versed on both sides of the reprocessing argument. Time for any OEM rep bad-mouthing reprocessing while on our property is coming to a close! I feel bad for the OEM rep that continues to think they are out-smarting the system by telling my OR staff and surgeons what to say to get "corporate" to stop pushing reprocessing. Each person this rep talks to is a potential leak back to me and if we get their name that rep is out of here. Period. Good luck!
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Post your area if you are legit.
 












Anonymous said:
I've heard the new Harmonic-Enseal combo generator won't work with reprocessed devices. Anybody know if this is true?
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The current generator won't properly run reprocessed equipment. Its not because of the generator, its because their shit wont work properly, period.

Actually The letter went out yesterday. It works their crap to the best of their craps ability. If your Ascent or Sterilmed rep told you differently, what else are they lying to you about?
 












And just when I think I've got everyone convinced that people from Alabama are not idiots, I get some jerk off who doesn't care about his/her patients spouting off on website. In some states they are working to ban reprocessing due to the increased health concerns. In other states they are working on a true "informed consents" for patients.

I'm glad you fill your days in your menial job buy trying to "catch" a rep actually doing their job. Bet it gets your rocks off to think you can squish the one professional who is probably better educated, smarter, not an asshole and who makes a true difference in your hospital. Bet you have non-contracted items on the shelf. Gee, bet if you removed those you could actually save some money instead of letting Styker stuff your shelves with inferior, used products. Why don't they reprocess others products? CAUSE ITS CRAP TO BEGIN WITH.

If you're not embarrassed by reprocessing, are you telling your patients? No? Didn't think so. Go back to screwing your cousin and leave my patients alone.
 






The main question is why aren't the OEMs bringing this to a national stage if there is so much "convincing evidence" against reprocessing? Bring your info to the FDA and have them put a stop to this! If reprocessing is so harmful to patients, then why do individual states have to work to put a ban on reprocessing? Luckily for you OEM reps those states and hospital systems were too stupid to listen to your rehearsed anit-reprocessing talk. Maybe those sites have surgeons who are in your pocket and have a loud enough voice to convince their site to stop using reprocessing.

Fact of the matter is that OEMs will work behind the scenes trying to change reprocessing opinion, but will not bring anything out into the light to have this handled at a national level through scientific validation. If that day ever comes, I'll be the first to admit defeat and support removing reprocessing from my system. Until then though, you don't have much to stand on because the government supports the reprocessing industry.
 






Actually they don't support reprocessing "high risk items such as harmonic and trocars." The FDA is so overwhelmed and their process is skewed in support of getting new products out in the field. These are the same people who brought us Phen-Fen and other dangerous products. Plus if EES openly has reprocessing banned, our customers will hate our guts. Sure, they'll happily pay full list price for Covidien energy or staplers but Lord forbid Johnson and Johnson doing the same. Admit it - you hate the thought of us making any money despite the fact we use it to better patient care. Seen any good drugs coming from Covidien? See them educating anyone? See Stryker sustainability educating anyone or providing community support? Didn't think so. If you're a nurse you should ask your rep about our RN Champion program.

I can see it's going to take someone suing or dying due to the product which won't happen because the hospitals hide the fact they forced the doctor to use a reprocessed device. That puts them on the line for payouts.
 






Anonymous said:
Actually they don't support reprocessing "high risk items such as harmonic and trocars." The FDA is so overwhelmed and their process is skewed in support of getting new products out in the field. These are the same people who brought us Phen-Fen and other dangerous products. Plus if EES openly has reprocessing banned, our customers will hate our guts. Sure, they'll happily pay full list price for Covidien energy or staplers but Lord forbid Johnson and Johnson doing the same. Admit it - you hate the thought of us making any money despite the fact we use it to better patient care. Seen any good drugs coming from Covidien? See them educating anyone? See Stryker sustainability educating anyone or providing community support? Didn't think so. If you're a nurse you should ask your rep about our RN Champion program.

I can see it's going to take someone suing or dying due to the product which won't happen because the hospitals hide the fact they forced the doctor to use a reprocessed device. That puts them on the line for payouts.
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Wrong. The FDA does support harmonic and trocar reprocessing, they just categorize these products a high risk in their reprocessing policy. It is still allowed as long as the reprocessor has 510(k) approval. The FDA has a list of products approved for reprocessing and it is assumed all others are not approved. You are correct that it will either take something (person dying, suffering quality of care, etc) to bring reprocessing to light. Until then, reprocessing will continue to be portrayed as a cost saving, green, beneficial activity/service for hospitals to participate in. But......I thought that EES already had this info, don't you? What about the studies that you've sponsored to show reprocessing is bad and results in bioburden on the reprocessed harmonics? What about the ads that you sponsor in medical magazines that ask hospital staff to ask their superiors about the dangers of reprocessing? From the information you bring on-site to show our staff and to talk to our surgeons about, it appears that EES should have more than enough to bring to the FDA to make this a hot button discussion topic.

The fact that this has not yet happened cannot be blamed on the idea that the FDA is too overwhelmed and their process is skewed. If data exists that proves that reprocessing is a detrimental process and poses significant risk to patient safety, then this thread should be a moot point. I seriously doubt the FDA would turn a blind eye on scientific data that exposes reprocessing to be a dangerous activity. In truth, EES has a well paid marketing department at its disposal to spin anti-reprocessing marketing campaigns.

If EES has a problem with hospitals reprocessing, I think they need to put together an air-tight case and bring it to a national level. At my hospital system, I've made numerous offers to have EES and Ascent discuss reprocessing to our executive leadership and have been turned down each time by EES reps. I have brought in EES reps to discuss with hospital leadership and never has the information presented been convincing enough for us to re-consider out stance on reprocessing. In my experience, EES knows they have better success talking to individuals RNs or surgeons on a one-off basis because their case can be much more convincing at that level. Sometimes the RNs are not experienced enough with reprocessing to understand or question what EES presents, or the surgeon is in the pocket of EES. In these situations, the info presented takes stronger hold.

As our system makes headway into severing that tie with EES and industry in general, OEMs will find less and less leverage with site staff. Eventually, it's going to have to come to leadership level and I have a strong feeling that reprocessing will not be going anywhere for a long time.
 






I agree with the above poster. In addition, we have pushed so hard against reprocessing that Applied, DaVinci, & other competitors have taken our business. Times change and those who don't change with them become obsolete. You would think by now, we would contract with Ascent to provide savings to facilities and would also help block our competitors. Reprocessing is only a fraction of our business, and when we lose it to DaVinci or Applied it is a much bigger piece of the pie. If reprocessing was sooooo bad as we tell it, these companies would be shut down and sued very quickly. I do not see that happening. Just my 2 cents worth.
 






Anonymous said:
I agree with the above poster. In addition, we have pushed so hard against reprocessing that Applied, DaVinci, & other competitors have taken our business. Times change and those who don't change with them become obsolete. You would think by now, we would contract with Ascent to provide savings to facilities and would also help block our competitors. Reprocessing is only a fraction of our business, and when we lose it to DaVinci or Applied it is a much bigger piece of the pie. If reprocessing was sooooo bad as we tell it, these companies would be shut down and sued very quickly. I do not see that happening. Just my 2 cents worth.
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Thank you, it's good to hear from someone from the other side who understands. From my perspective, it's more of a game of chicken right now. Healthcare systems are working to save $$ in every way possible. Where everyone can benefit is when manufacturers want to be partners with the system rather than fight them. Ultimately, we know we won't change surgeon's preferences. At my hospital system, they either like EES or Covidien. There are those in the middle that are willing to change, but it's not a significant percentage of the users. We still fight our internal battles to change preferences and to push reprocessing. It's not an easy task because reprocessing already is perceived negatively due to OEM marketing and discussions, past experiences (with reprocessed devices way back when the reprocessing industry was just starting off) and from cohort discussions. But hospitals can't afford to give up on the fight because, for our system alone, we save $2.5m each year on reprocessing. While we can't expect OEMs like EES to take a $2.5m hit to their bottom line, we just need you to step to the plate. Acknowledge that reprocessing is here to stay, but give us a better option for saving $$. If you do so, I can guarantee we can pull the plug on reprocessing quickly and, as long as you stay our partner, it won't come back.
 






I sell implants so reprocessing poses no threat to me. I do however find it annoying and kind of (used car salesman-ish), sleezy, but I guess there is a pkace for used goods in every market. To the reprocessing reps, just know you are viewed as total bottom of the barrel. You will never be accepted as or paid as a device rep. With that said, it is probably here to stay. The rat race will continue with OEM's upgrading equipment with "trip wires" and used car salesman trying to find a work around.

To the MM posting on here (assuming you are legit which is doubtful). Get real and get the hell off CF. You are truly delusional if you think a rep is going to partner with you for any other reason than revenue growth. You talk about reps as if we should be your friends and be lookong out for your hospital. Sorry, not gonna happen. Sure occasionally it will but only if the rep is achieving some objective which gets him paid (some bonus or standardization, etc). As long as we work for public companies (who seek uber agressive, alphas), and make more $ as you spend more $, we will continue to use any tactic that works.
 






Anonymous said:
I sell implants so reprocessing poses no threat to me. I do however find it annoying and kind of (used car salesman-ish), sleezy, but I guess there is a pkace for used goods in every market. To the reprocessing reps, just know you are viewed as total bottom of the barrel. You will never be accepted as or paid as a device rep. With that said, it is probably here to stay. The rat race will continue with OEM's upgrading equipment with "trip wires" and used car salesman trying to find a work around.

To the MM posting on here (assuming you are legit which is doubtful). Get real and get the hell off CF. You are truly delusional if you think a rep is going to partner with you for any other reason than revenue growth. You talk about reps as if we should be your friends and be lookong out for your hospital. Sorry, not gonna happen. Sure occasionally it will but only if the rep is achieving some objective which gets him paid (some bonus or standardization, etc). As long as we work for public companies (who seek uber agressive, alphas), and make more $ as you spend more $, we will continue to use any tactic that works.
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Assuming MM means Materials Management, I never implied that I was in that position with my hospital system. I am legit in that I have a strategic role in my hospital system and I'll continue on here because I don't see how you will stop me. Thanks.

I also never inferred that I wanted a rep as a friend. You need to think outside the box and not so narrow-mindedly. I am asking for a partner in that it is a mutually beneficial relationship. How can I be 'truly delusional' if you yourself state that it 'occasionally' will happen? Obviously the partnership mentality is a stretch for uber aggressive alphas, but those are only the reps that you're thinking of. Not to say that the Regional Corporate Account Directors are not alphas themselves, but they understand the business at a much higher level than reps. You may see it as "Here is my product line, how do I make lots of $$?" The people I deal with see it as "Here is my company, how do I work with [Insert Hospital System] to advance/increase my book of business?" That's the level of partnership I'm talking about. They see the whole book of business and understand that a relationship is the only way to get things done with the help of hospital leadership. Believe me, if their only goal is to get paid and make us spend more money, you can bet that we're not standing for that. If you're willing to partner with us and understand the limitations that we are under as health care providers, the path for your success and ours may be more alike than you comprehend. Otherwise, it's an uphill battle and we'll fight you every step of the way.

You tell me which tactic sounds more appealing.

If you continue to maintain your alpha uber aggressive mentality and approach your role in our hospitals that way, then I think you won't be using your tactics in our hospitals for very long. It's time for you to face facts that you need to work with hospitals and not against. You're right that CF is not a venue designed for/targeted to hospital staff, but when we are trying to help you understand how to potentially be better at your job, don't you think it would be a good idea to listen anyways?
 






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