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Report by ZS Associates: Oncologists Are Most Likely To Shun Sales Reps

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Duh! I've been with Onc since 1994 (original 35) - The last 10 years has MDs seeing less Reps - despite the lunch money. Most of my clinics won't even let new Reps in - and they've gotten pretty tired of POD attacks as well. If we can schedule as many as we want just means we're feeding their staff - they've got no desire to sit in.

At first they thought if they cut back on the number of lunch dates each company has available they'd have more lunches available for other companies - then they found out an unintended consequence - more partners jumping in on lunch. It's a scream to see 3 of us in these tiny break rooms.

The iPad discussions are a total embarrassment to their sensibilities. I'm glad I decided to retire this month.
 




There is no value to NVS Hem/Onc reps. Why bother with listening to their canned disease lectures? The physicians have had it up past their noses with lectures from qualified investigators and clinicians - and we expect them to listen to us? hahaha That is as lame as a Organizational Management Degree
 




Anonymous said:
Duh! I've been with Onc since 1994 (original 35) - The last 10 years has MDs seeing less Reps - despite the lunch money. Most of my clinics won't even let new Reps in - and they've gotten pretty tired of POD attacks as well. If we can schedule as many as we want just means we're feeding their staff - they've got no desire to sit in.

At first they thought if they cut back on the number of lunch dates each company has available they'd have more lunches available for other companies - then they found out an unintended consequence - more partners jumping in on lunch. It's a scream to see 3 of us in these tiny break rooms.

The iPad discussions are a total embarrassment to their sensibilities. I'm glad I decided to retire this month.
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I'm not looking to get into a pissing contest but wasn't the original Oncology effort launched with Aredia when we put 60 representative and six managers into the field in 1990?
 




Anonymous said:
I'm not looking to get into a pissing contest but wasn't the original Oncology effort launched with Aredia when we put 60 representative and six managers into the field in 1990?
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No. In the early 1990s there was a small group of 15 or so ex MSLs that made up a Cytokine Development Unit. Late 1994/ early 1995 they started the Oncology Unit with 35 Reps to sell Aredia and Sandostatin.

Oncology was amped up another 30 or so shortly thereafter. Bill Spelta, Mike Emch, Mike White, Larry Schwartzenberger(?) were some of the original managers, if I recall correctly - can't remember who else.

David Epstein was CEO of Oncology, Debbie Dunshire was our Pres., Alan Schmidt was our Director <-not sure if those were their correct titled positions, but it was the pecking order. A few years later Bill and Sally Cannon made up the Western and Eastern half as Regional Directors. And the division was on a decline after that.

I don't remember who else were part of the Core 35.

We used to be a less regimented group, had integrity - were less supervised, meetings were engaging and held in fun exotic or expensive locations. Doesn't really matter the history of our heritage - just the decline we now face as an industry, and company.

I don't honestly see the need for so many reps with iPads schooling MDs on disease state. Apparently neither do the MDs. Yeah, some MDs are uniformed or disinterested - and if they are - they're not a high volume MD for that disease and the Rep is likely wasting time for purposes of making reach and frequency a completed task.

All of us have been co-opted into selling everyone on our single product - if the MD isn't a high Rx'er - what does he care? He has no interest in that and neither does the staff. Offices have cut back on the frequency and number of Company Reps in the office because of that. We're all struggling and competing with our colleagues for share of voice. Ironic isn't it?

It's increasingly hard to justify the pay for the amount and time Reps truly spend in the field. It's an embarrassment if the public ever knew how much we're paid for how little we accomplish when they're buying expensive drugs.
 




Anonymous said:
No. In the early 1990s there was a small group of 15 or so ex MSLs that made up a Cytokine Development Unit. Late 1994/ early 1995 they started the Oncology Unit with 35 Reps to sell Aredia and Sandostatin.

Oncology was amped up another 30 or so shortly thereafter. Bill Spelta, Mike Emch, Mike White, Larry Schwartzenberger(?) were some of the original managers, if I recall correctly - can't remember who else.

David Epstein was CEO of Oncology, Debbie Dunshire was our Pres., Alan Schmidt was our Director <-not sure if those were their correct titled positions, but it was the pecking order. A few years later Bill and Sally Cannon made up the Western and Eastern half as Regional Directors. And the division was on a decline after that.

I don't remember who else were part of the Core 35.

We used to be a less regimented group, had integrity - were less supervised, meetings were engaging and held in fun exotic or expensive locations. Doesn't really matter the history of our heritage - just the decline we now face as an industry, and company.

I don't honestly see the need for so many reps with iPads schooling MDs on disease state. Apparently neither do the MDs. Yeah, some MDs are uniformed or disinterested - and if they are - they're not a high volume MD for that disease and the Rep is likely wasting time for purposes of making reach and frequency a completed task.

All of us have been co-opted into selling everyone on our single product - if the MD isn't a high Rx'er - what does he care? He has no interest in that and neither does the staff. Offices have cut back on the frequency and number of Company Reps in the office because of that. We're all struggling and competing with our colleagues for share of voice. Ironic isn't it?

It's increasingly hard to justify the pay for the amount and time Reps truly spend in the field. It's an embarrassment if the public ever knew how much we're paid for how little we accomplish when they're buying expensive drugs.
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Again, this is not to denigrate your experience or statements. Clearly you come from the Sandoz side of the merger. However, it was Ciba-Geigy who put together the 60 territory sales force in 1990. Yes, the managers included Emch, Spelta White, Reed and others. We went a year waiting for Aredia to be approved (loaned executive program) in 1991. Aredia owned the market for HCM when Ciba downsized and folded the Oncology force into MM. Most of the original 60 were called into Novartis Oncology at the time of the Sandoz-Ciba merger (1996). Later we got Zometa , Femara and Gleevec from the Ciba pipeline. Affinitor, Sandoglobulin and Sandostatin came from the Sandoz side of the house.

Just sayin'
 




Anonymous said:
Again, this is not to denigrate your experience or statements. Clearly you come from the Sandoz side of the merger. However, it was Ciba-Geigy who put together the 60 territory sales force in 1990. Yes, the managers included Emch, Spelta White, Reed and others. We went a year waiting for Aredia to be approved (loaned executive program) in 1991. Aredia owned the market for HCM when Ciba downsized and folded the Oncology force into MM. Most of the original 60 were called into Novartis Oncology at the time of the Sandoz-Ciba merger (1996). Later we got Zometa , Femara and Gleevec from the Ciba pipeline. Affinitor, Sandoglobulin and Sandostatin came from the Sandoz side of the house.

Just sayin'
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You're right I am from the Sandoz side. I thought Aredia was Chiron's product and NVS (Ciba) had a 50/50 stake in the product. I do know for a fact - Novartis Oncology started with 30 Reps at first, I'll put money on that, then we doubled our sales force afterwards to 60 or so Representatives.

I loved Aredia, Sandostatin - I didn't care for selling the Glob at all. That one was too much of a hospital contract drug. My my, how this job has changed since then...
 




Anonymous said:
You're right I am from the Sandoz side. I thought Aredia was Chiron's product and NVS (Ciba) had a 50/50 stake in the product. I do know for a fact - Novartis Oncology started with 30 Reps at first, I'll put money on that, then we doubled our sales force afterwards to 60 or so Representatives.

I loved Aredia, Sandostatin - I didn't care for selling the Glob at all. That one was too much of a hospital contract drug. My my, how this job has changed since then...
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Oh yeah, one other thing...I loved the Ciba Geigy management style compared to the Sandoz side. I was so used to intimidation and finding fault to one of looking for opportunities to improve and focus on the good. Somehow, somewhere that all got messed up back to the Sandoz mind set.
 




Anonymous said:
Oh yeah, one other thing...I loved the Ciba Geigy management style compared to the Sandoz side. I was so used to intimidation and finding fault to one of looking for opportunities to improve and focus on the good. Somehow, somewhere that all got messed up back to the Sandoz mind set.
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Unfortunately we took the bad from both sides. Ciba was a very "nice' organization, but they brought us the focus on metrics and team selling model. Personally never had a problem with the management but I know others did. I trace the problem to after the merger to the massive expansions and mass market approach. The organization became earn at all costs with a ton of newbie managers that had no individual creative responsibility or skills and only looked at metrics and sales. You can boil it down to professional sales model to a commercial sales model. A very sorry decline indeed but one that permeated the entire industry.
 




Anonymous said:
There is no value to NVS Hem/Onc reps. Why bother with listening to their canned disease lectures? The physicians have had it up past their noses with lectures from qualified investigators and clinicians - and we expect them to listen to us? hahaha That is as lame as a Organizational Management Degree
Click to expand...

WTF is an Organizational Management Degree and who has one of those?
 












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