Rep in Jacksonville, FL
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Actually, I'm the frustrated husband of a patient who was given Arestin by a dental hygienist, even though my wife is currently nursing our young baby, and the FDA warning label on the drug says that it should not be given to nursing mothers (tetracycline-based antibiotics are carried in breast milk) unless the benefits are deemed essential. This dental hygienist, who probably works on commission (another new thing I recently learned about the profession), did not ask whether my wife was currently nursing, even though my wife had discussed with the hygienist that she had recently had a baby.
The hygienist put a really hard sell on, telling my wife that she absolutely needed the drug to avoid bone loss and pain, and that she needed to get it that day during her SRP, or that it could not be done. My wife put her trust in this supposed dental health professional and caved, OK'ing the treatment at a "discounted" price of $65 per injection, which took all of a couple of minutes.
Only after the treatment did the hygienist give my wife an Arestin pamphlet, and only several days later did I read the FDA warning label in small print on the back. My wife cried for quite awhile thinking she had damaged our baby. After some further investigating, I became comfortable with the fact that the risks were pretty low.
However, we're left with a strong distaste for the dental profession. It seemed like a used car salesman trying to pile on largely unnecessary or over-priced extras like undercoating and floor mats to pad their bill. And this seems to be the norm out there now.
Frankly, when I put my first post on this board, I didn't realize it was an OraPharma sales rep board (I just found it through a Google search for Arestin + scam). I realize that this is the wrong audience for my complaints. Now that I look more at the whole OraPharma forum, I can see the sarcasm rules the day, and, even if the replies were meant to be at my expense, I acknowledge that some were quite humorous. On the other hand, while I provided data in my replies, the rest were all unresponsive quips, so my opinion of Arestin as "mostly snake oil" remains unchanged. Will you help me spread the word?
If you would put the effort into finding a good dentist as you put into your posts here we would all be better off.
To the biologist. Your best bet is to speak with someone at OraPharma by calling the customer service team. No snake oil here...just an antibiotic.
Ex rep here.... Arestin is a scam and does not work. Your best bet is to find another dentist. The RDH who placed the product was bonused for jamming that crap in your wife's mouth to pay for the Thanksgiving Turkey.
I don't know if anyone will see this post since the last post was a while ago, but...I always hate when clinicians site pocket depth reduction as the gold standard for results from SRP and Arestin! Some pockets never shrink no matter what you do to them. They are a lagging indicator at best. The 80% reduction in bleeding that is achieved vs just SRP is the greatest clinical indicator of success. Less bleeding means less infection, and that means less impact to overall health through systemic links and less bone loss due to lower bone resorption biomarkers. Now, I know that there are some dental offices that push Arestin to patients that don't really need it, just like they also try to sell a crown to patients that don't need it. But I have dozens of testimonials from Hygienists that swear up and down that when they use Arestin optimally they see results that they could not get any other way.
You are missing nothing. It is the lack of ethics all around the board. I am a registered dental hygienist with over 10 years experience. I cannot stand by this product for the exact reason you are citing. You are correct in your analysis. Here is the icing on the cake though- we are taught that a difference of only 1 mm can be atributed to "inter-operator" reliability. Therefore 2 people or the same person measuring on 2 separate occasions can be within 1 mm difference and their probing depths are considered equal. Isn't that interesting?!
Issues with practices pushing arestin also include the fact that people don't bother reading/ studying or bother to try to understand statistics. Doctors and sometimes hygienists are too preoccupied with the production goals. When your staff benefits financially from the sale of a product via bonuses or incentives- that is when you get the "pushy" practices.
I have used arestin but I am very clear about the result. I will use it in an area in which the bleeding cannot be controlled- but I promise nothing in regards to pocket improvement. I have not seen much clinical improvement with arestin. With most cases, a patient can be well controlled with scaling and root planing and thorough--not aggressive homecare.
To be fair to some hygienists though- depending on the state that you practice- sometimes you are stuck doing what the dentist wants- (placing arestin)- even if you don't agree-Especially if you NEED your job. Dentists are ultimately responsible for the diagnosis and treatment recommendations.
Issues with practices pushing arestin also include the fact that people don't bother reading/ studying or bother to try to understand statistics. Doctors and sometimes hygienists are too preoccupied with the production goals. When your staff benefits financially from the sale of a product via bonuses or incentives- that is when you get the "pushy" practices.
I have used arestin but I am very clear about the result. I will use it in an area in which the bleeding cannot be controlled- but I promise nothing in regards to pocket improvement. I have not seen much clinical improvement with arestin. With most cases, a patient can be well controlled with scaling and root planing and thorough--not aggressive homecare.
To be fair to some hygienists though- depending on the state that you practice- sometimes you are stuck doing what the dentist wants- (placing arestin)- even if you don't agree-Especially if you NEED your job. Dentists are ultimately responsible for the diagnosis and treatment recommendations.
My oral health has improved significantly over the past decade and because of better daily care my pockets have gone from 7s and 6s to mostly 2,3, and 4's. And this without anitbiotics or any medication. I rinse with Vince, pour a non-alcohol freshener and use dental picks and floss and brush etc. So instead of a pat on the back I was a bit stunned when the hygienest told me that the five 5's she found required Arestin for each upon a planing and scaling. What makes me suspect is this: i have improved over time without meds and I no longer have a crown to lay on or a cavity to fill (the patient as a revenue stream is drying up in other words). Am I being too cynical? I did notice a squeamishness between the hygienist and the DDS when I challenged them on this need given my improvements. I go in 3x a year btw for a cleaning as well. Thoughts from DDS and Perio's appreciated.
Glad I found this. In April I had a deep cleaning after having my jaw wired. The hygienist recommended "HEAVILY" Arestin to help the pockets "heal and close up faster". Not knowing anything about it at the time and greatly concerned about the fanged teeth look I had (because of the wires pushing the gums back), I went ahead a shelved out a few hundred bucks and went on my way. Today my son and I both went for a checkup and my son had two 6mm pockets that were bleeding, four 4mm pockets that were not. The same hygienist put arestin in the treatment plan and maybe because I didn't raise any concerns when it was used on me previously, didn't say anything about it not being needed on all the teeth. When the account manager came in to go over price and quoted me over 600 bucks, I politely nodded and she began to do the deep clean. As she was doing this I was on the iPAD looking for the scam and pressure sell articles on arestin. I told her to forget the arestin. The hygienist looked taken back but she did not try to hard sell the stuff because I said it is debatable whether the stuff works as promised or not. She said she was going to put arestin in the two 6mm pockets that were bleeding at NO CHARGE, and not put it in the record, because she thought he would really need them there.
I don't mind paying for something I need and I think the point of most folks who complain is the pharmaceutical and the dentist are trying to push this stuff unnecessarily to make a buck, not because the patient needs it.
I don't mind paying for something I need and I think the point of most folks who complain is the pharmaceutical and the dentist are trying to push this stuff unnecessarily to make a buck, not because the patient needs it.
I am a hygienist and a former employee. I have and continue to see the benefits of Arestin everyday. I was frustrated by the expense of Arestin as well. Unfortunately, it is not cheap to manufacture but it does work! The 'biologist' who broke down the clinical studies failed to realize that millimeters is a very small measurement and therefore a .3mm change might not seem significant to him. Also, it seems he doesn't understand that even a seemingly insignificant decrease in bacteria may be all the body needs to stop the path of destruction.
To the patient who was diagnosed today, please understand that Arestin is NOT a scam. It is an FDA approved low dose antibiotic that can help control the bacteria that is causing your gum infection. Not treating or finding a Dr who doesn't use it or doesn't diagnose periodontal infection is the real fraud! Although, scientifically much different Arestin at the same time as non-surgical periodontal therapy works on you and your son's gum infection like that bubble gum flavored antibiotic you got him for every ear infection as a kid! It is the lowest dosage, most effective, time tested, least side effect antibiotic to treat this type of gum infection! If you have questions on the science then by all means, don't do it, but if your issue is solely cost, consider that the cost to replace a SINGLE tooth lost because of a periodontal infection is generally about $4,000!
OraPharma has really worked hard to get the cost of Arestin down for a patient. It is available by prescription and could be covered by your medical plan for a $75 copay! Chances are that your dentist or hygienist pays $16-$20 per site and turns around to charge you $50 or $60! Rest assured that OraPharma communicates a $35-$40 fee to cover cost and time of the hygienst or Dr. Your practitioner is going to charge whatever they want! Your best bet is to determine how many sites you need and ask them if they can order it through your prescription plan. If its covered by Your plan, It will take 1-2 weeks to process and arrive in the office, but it could save you hundreds of dollars! That being said, if Arestin was a scam, the FDA wouldn't approve it, pharmacies wouldn't carry it, and medical plans wouldn't recognize it.
To the patient who was diagnosed today, please understand that Arestin is NOT a scam. It is an FDA approved low dose antibiotic that can help control the bacteria that is causing your gum infection. Not treating or finding a Dr who doesn't use it or doesn't diagnose periodontal infection is the real fraud! Although, scientifically much different Arestin at the same time as non-surgical periodontal therapy works on you and your son's gum infection like that bubble gum flavored antibiotic you got him for every ear infection as a kid! It is the lowest dosage, most effective, time tested, least side effect antibiotic to treat this type of gum infection! If you have questions on the science then by all means, don't do it, but if your issue is solely cost, consider that the cost to replace a SINGLE tooth lost because of a periodontal infection is generally about $4,000!
OraPharma has really worked hard to get the cost of Arestin down for a patient. It is available by prescription and could be covered by your medical plan for a $75 copay! Chances are that your dentist or hygienist pays $16-$20 per site and turns around to charge you $50 or $60! Rest assured that OraPharma communicates a $35-$40 fee to cover cost and time of the hygienst or Dr. Your practitioner is going to charge whatever they want! Your best bet is to determine how many sites you need and ask them if they can order it through your prescription plan. If its covered by Your plan, It will take 1-2 weeks to process and arrive in the office, but it could save you hundreds of dollars! That being said, if Arestin was a scam, the FDA wouldn't approve it, pharmacies wouldn't carry it, and medical plans wouldn't recognize it.
Right on!
I'm a practicing RDH and former rep out West. I knew nothing of LAAs even after practicing for 7 years. My boss knew less than I did. He did great work and was an ethical dentist but just never heard the arestin presentation.
As a former employee and someone who still believes in the product, I see how people slam the product. It's not JUST about pocket depth. It's bacteria control. Simple. Why do we educate our patients on B&F? It's to eliminate as much bacteria as possible.
Like the person wrote up here. The FDA APPROVED the product. That means, "it does what it and the orapharma reps claim that does."
It's no silver bullet but it works almost all the time for me.
Like the person wrote up here. The FDA APPROVED the product. That means, "it does what it and the orapharma reps claim that does."
It's no silver bullet but it works almost all the time for me.[/QUOTE]
FDA Approval means only that the potential risks are outweighed by the potential benefits and has no relationship to claims made by the manufacturer. Tighten up!
It's no silver bullet but it works almost all the time for me.[/QUOTE]
FDA Approval means only that the potential risks are outweighed by the potential benefits and has no relationship to claims made by the manufacturer. Tighten up!
You're kidding right? The FDA could then approve orange juice to cure cancer since the dangers don't outweigh the benefits. The manufacturer has to prove efficacy. Almost every drug out there has side effects. Nothing would get approved if that is all the FDA does. Read up on your facts dude.
Quite simply, Arestin has proven, measurable effects in PD reduction and potential protective benefits in terms of helping prevent long-term systemic complications of periodontal disease, which are serious in nature. It's quick and easy to use and the cost is not prohibitive. Sounds pretty good to me overall, and 10+ years on the market with industry awards ought to tell you something about its efficacy.
Hi all. If this product (Arestin) was not a scam, why does it NOT have ADA approval? Also, if you do the math, the active ingredient costs more than $1,000,000 per ounce! No wonder with this profit margin it is so heavily promoted by the manufacturer. You can buy 100mg capsules of minocycline for less than $1 each retail. Who wouldn't like to make over a million $$ with an investment of less than $300! Think about how much advertisement and incentives the supplier could afford at this markup!
First off the ADA only approves products, not prescription medications. Second, Arestin contains monocycline, but it isn't only monocycline. The delivery and the concentration allows a patient to receive benefit of over 5000mg of antibiotic with a dosage of 1mg!!! I would imagine that any competent clinician would see the benefit of NOT putting a patient at risk for antibiotic resistance and side effects. Plus, if it was just a scam, as you say, then I'm fairly certain that we wouldn't be getting coverage under medical and pharmacy plans as well! OP has worked to make Arestin accessible and affordable to patients and offices! Can you say that for any other product in the dental device space? In addition, pointing out the value of something like this by it's weight is just idiotic! How about 17 Alpha-Hydroxy Progesterone Caproate (17P) at $1.5 million per ounce but just .001g can save a premature baby's life! Not worth it?... Then go bug KV Pharmaceuticals on their page! How about pure Oxygen? It cant even be measured in ounces, but I bet you'd agree it's pretty important! Now run along back to Tolmar, OR drop some LSD at $70,000 per ounce... Just leave us alone!!!
"YOU" and your agenda are the problem with Reps in the dental space. The ADA? REALLY? Forget about the cost to attain such an approval for a moment and think about the governing body of the FDA. Use your limited expertise and ask yourself which organization is bigger and more powerful in the pharmaceutical arena. Is it the ADA or the FDA? Then ask yourself if Arestin is FDA approved. After you tuck tail and slink away, please remind your whole company to continue to lead all of their sales calls with your moronic numbers. We here at OP will enjoy kicking your ass for another 20 years.
All non-clinical studies and clinical trials done by CROs are paid for by the sponsor, so are you asserting that all FDA approvals based on CRO studies should be discarded as all that data is biased?
If all the negative posts are from some disgruntled Atridox rep, consider for a moment the frustration of having been on the market essentially the same amount of time as Arestin, and suffering the worst head-to-head beating in dental history. The facts are tough to swallow for those guys and Arestin's choke hold is a strong one still. Some good advice for the Atridox crew to follow: "Don't throw rocks at a man carrying a machine gun." - Rowdy Roddy Piper
Who cares about Atridox? Lasers are the future.