Propspective Patient Advice ZOLL Life Vest & Scare Tactics

[Anonymous (Patient)]

I'm trying to read through the threads on Zoll, and I would kindly please ask that if you are an employee or ex employee that you please not reply with a war with each other.

My doctor recommended the vest. I said I would consider it, but then we get a call from a Rep who says "Congratulations, your prescription Dr. xxx wrote for your Zoll life vest has been approved, I'm calling to make an appointment for your fitting...."

As far as we know, our Dr. didn't prescribe anything, and he was very clear we would just be contacted to "look at the information"

Can you please help me understand about this device?

1. It has not been studied in any clinical trials or proven to save lives? Yes or No? (please explain in "real people" terms. (i.e. I don't understand your abbreviation/initials terms like TM, RM, ICD, WCD or other terms. Explain in normal, non sales rep english please)

2. The $3300/month the Rep says Medicare has approved.. is that reality? (I don't even think I qualify for medicare). We did not authorize our Physician to give any Rep any of our insurance information. Why did the Rep say that, and did the doctor really give out info without our permission or is this a sales tactic?

3. Does Zoll pay the Doctors to recommend this device? If not, why was my doctor so much pushing it?

4. Is the clinical trial that is referred to, actually for some kind of Implanted Defribulator device or the Life Vest itself

5. I was reading Dr. Mandrola's article and it concerned me. Can someone explain it in plain English?

There's this one: http://www.drjohnm.org/?s=Life+vest
And also the one on Medscape from 2013

6. I went to check the Better Business Bureau, and there were 11 cases against Zoll, many of them seemed to be financial, but a couple were about the device Operation (this was in Pennsylvania BBB, on their online site) Does anyone know what that is about?

7. I became really concerned when I was searching the internet for information and started reading a number of other patient experiences about it. There's more than one here, but you have to hunt for it:

http://www.complaintslist.com/medical-services/zoll/

So again, I ask you to please not bicker or curse or fight about or assassinate each others character. I am a real person (patient) who just wants to understand about this thing and not be bullied by my doctor (or a rep) into having to wear it.

Thank you kindly.

http://www.bbb.org/pittsburgh/Busin...poration-in-pittsburgh-pa-14001193/complaints

We have a doctors appointment in a couple of days, and I want to say "No" based on what I am reading, but I need a plain and easy way to communicate this with our doctor.

What do I do if that Rep did get our insurance information to keep us from being billed without our permission? We are having enough stress and hassle without a parasitic medical device company scaring the h _ _ _ out of me and my family. My child overheard the Rep scaring me on the speaker phone when we were phoned with the good news that the device we had not yet decided on, nor even had information presented to us about, had been approved.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm trying to read through the threads on Zoll, and I would kindly please ask that if you are an employee or ex employee that you please not reply with a war with each other.

My doctor recommended the vest. I said I would consider it, but then we get a call from a Rep who says "Congratulations, your prescription Dr. xxx wrote for your Zoll life vest has been approved, I'm calling to make an appointment for your fitting...."

As far as we know, our Dr. didn't prescribe anything, and he was very clear we would just be contacted to "look at the information"

Can you please help me understand about this device?

1. It has not been studied in any clinical trials or proven to save lives? Yes or No? (please explain in "real people" terms. (i.e. I don't understand your abbreviation/initials terms like TM, RM, ICD, WCD or other terms. Explain in normal, non sales rep english please)

2. The $3300/month the Rep says Medicare has approved.. is that reality? (I don't even think I qualify for medicare). We did not authorize our Physician to give any Rep any of our insurance information. Why did the Rep say that, and did the doctor really give out info without our permission or is this a sales tactic?

3. Does Zoll pay the Doctors to recommend this device? If not, why was my doctor so much pushing it?

4. Is the clinical trial that is referred to, actually for some kind of Implanted Defribulator device or the Life Vest itself

5. I was reading Dr. Mandrola's article and it concerned me. Can someone explain it in plain English?

There's this one: http://www.drjohnm.org/?s=Life+vest
And also the one on Medscape from 2013

6. I went to check the Better Business Bureau, and there were 11 cases against Zoll, many of them seemed to be financial, but a couple were about the device Operation (this was in Pennsylvania BBB, on their online site) Does anyone know what that is about?

7. I became really concerned when I was searching the internet for information and started reading a number of other patient experiences about it. There's more than one here, but you have to hunt for it:

http://www.complaintslist.com/medical-services/zoll/

So again, I ask you to please not bicker or curse or fight about or assassinate each others character. I am a real person (patient) who just wants to understand about this thing and not be bullied by my doctor (or a rep) into having to wear it.

Thank you kindly.

http://www.bbb.org/pittsburgh/Busin...poration-in-pittsburgh-pa-14001193/complaints

We have a doctors appointment in a couple of days, and I want to say "No" based on what I am reading, but I need a plain and easy way to communicate this with our doctor.

What do I do if that Rep did get our insurance information to keep us from being billed without our permission? We are having enough stress and hassle without a parasitic medical device company scaring the h _ _ _ out of me and my family. My child overheard the Rep scaring me on the speaker phone when we were phoned with the good news that the device we had not yet decided on, nor even had information presented to us about, had been approved.

20 year cardiology device rep here that has worked with the best and most well respected cardiologists in the country. I have worked for the biggest internal cardiac defibrillator and pacemaker companies as well as zoll lifevest. If you are looking for a non hostile x employee response with credibility, here it is. you can write this down and show it to your cardiologist and tell him these are exact statements from the top electrophysiologists in the country.and if you do not meet any of them, you don't need a lifevest. NOW, there is no 100% guarantee in practicing medicine, and a perfectly healthy person with no issues can drop dead. SO keep that in mind that the following will be accurate for 99.8% of the population, this wil guide you around the money making, marketing lies, and mis use of the Lifevest.

The lifevest is a good choice when AND ONLY a good choice ( especially with ZERO clinical outcomes studies completed ) when:

1) you have had a MI ( heart attack) AND have an EF% under 35%, AND have runs of PVC's ( non sustained VT) or episodes of ventricular tachycardia that are sustained. Notice how I stressed the word AND. if you had an MI (heart attack) and you don't have the other factors I listed, then you do NOT need a lifevest. that's non supported NO OUTCOMES mis-use of the device. marketing bologna.

2) a NEWLY diagnosed non ischemic cardiomyopathy with a very low EF under 30%. pay attention the word NEWLY. If it is a cardiomyopathy that you have had for a while with no change and no ventricular arrhythmias then why would you put a TEMPORARY device on? its another marketing bologna sector where the company pushes the device.

3) X plant patients that have a ICD and the have an infection and the device needs to be taken out until the infection clears, put the lifevest on until the ICD can be re implanted.

4) If you have had any SUSTAINED runs on ventricular tachycardia no matter what heart diagnosis you have, until they put an ICD in you. ( they really should bypass any time on the lifevest and put the ICD in now because you would meet criteria for one.

5) any GENETIC disorder where further testing is needed and a ICD cannot be implanted yet. Brugada syndrome, long QT syndrome, etc. Any genetic disorder that puts you at risk for sustained ventricular episodes that could lead to sudden cardiac death.


that's it.

sorry for typos and if I have spelling errors etc, I typed this fast and don't have time to double check it.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm trying to read through the threads on Zoll, and I would kindly please ask that if you are an employee or ex employee that you please not reply with a war with each other.

My doctor recommended the vest. I said I would consider it, but then we get a call from a Rep who says "Congratulations, your prescription Dr. xxx wrote for your Zoll life vest has been approved, I'm calling to make an appointment for your fitting...."

As far as we know, our Dr. didn't prescribe anything, and he was very clear we would just be contacted to "look at the information"

Can you please help me understand about this device?

1. It has not been studied in any clinical trials or proven to save lives? Yes or No? (please explain in "real people" terms. (i.e. I don't understand your abbreviation/initials terms like TM, RM, ICD, WCD or other terms. Explain in normal, non sales rep english please)

2. The $3300/month the Rep says Medicare has approved.. is that reality? (I don't even think I qualify for medicare). We did not authorize our Physician to give any Rep any of our insurance information. Why did the Rep say that, and did the doctor really give out info without our permission or is this a sales tactic?

3. Does Zoll pay the Doctors to recommend this device? If not, why was my doctor so much pushing it?

4. Is the clinical trial that is referred to, actually for some kind of Implanted Defribulator device or the Life Vest itself

5. I was reading Dr. Mandrola's article and it concerned me. Can someone explain it in plain English?

There's this one: http://www.drjohnm.org/?s=Life+vest
And also the one on Medscape from 2013

6. I went to check the Better Business Bureau, and there were 11 cases against Zoll, many of them seemed to be financial, but a couple were about the device Operation (this was in Pennsylvania BBB, on their online site) Does anyone know what that is about?

7. I became really concerned when I was searching the internet for information and started reading a number of other patient experiences about it. There's more than one here, but you have to hunt for it:

http://www.complaintslist.com/medical-services/zoll/

So again, I ask you to please not bicker or curse or fight about or assassinate each others character. I am a real person (patient) who just wants to understand about this thing and not be bullied by my doctor (or a rep) into having to wear it.

Thank you kindly.

http://www.bbb.org/pittsburgh/Busin...poration-in-pittsburgh-pa-14001193/complaints

We have a doctors appointment in a couple of days, and I want to say "No" based on what I am reading, but I need a plain and easy way to communicate this with our doctor.

What do I do if that Rep did get our insurance information to keep us from being billed without our permission? We are having enough stress and hassle without a parasitic medical device company scaring the h _ _ _ out of me and my family. My child overheard the Rep scaring me on the speaker phone when we were phoned with the good news that the device we had not yet decided on, nor even had information presented to us about, had been approved.

Dear Sir- The response given below is quite accurate. Let's take your situation in context and you seem quite engaged in your health, kudos to you. Risk is relative and many types of people have heart attacks (joggers/nonsmoker/non-alcohol/slender to the obese/drinking/smoking/high fat diet sedentary folks). Mental health plays a big part in recovery, go out and be active (based on your prescribed activity). Go out and live life not waiting to die. Medically discuss with your physician-how complex your case was? Where were the blockages (simple or complex, single or multiple, good or bad locations). What is the chance of your heart recovery (was the heart muscle just stunned or is a scar developing?). The absolute biggest impact on heart disease and the longterm implications (even death) is linked to earlier management of cardiac risk factors (hypertension, cholesterol, diabetes, diet, exercise, smoking) via medications and behavior change. The second is access to quick interventions to remove blockages to resupply the heart's blood flow (cardiac catheterization and angioplasty). Third-and most importantly that after a heart attack and successful intervention to restore blood flow is the use of core measures (specific regiment of prescribed medications).

If the Lifevest gives you piece of mind go for it. However, if not and it just stresses you and you are waiting for it to go off and you have all the other concerns that you outlined above don't. LIVEVEST IS NOT STANDARD OF CARE THAT HAS BEEN PEER REVIEWED. IN OTHER WORDS PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAD HEART ATTACKS WALK OUT OF HOSPITALS EVERYDAY and are fine. Yes occasionally someone does die and everyone says "they should have had a vest" but not that often to cause the medical community to mandate it. The vest will do nothing to heal your heart. You might even hear a stupid analogy that it's like an "airbag" or parachute. First off, if you don't have a parachute, don't jump out of a plane and you wont need one. Second, airbags are for crashes so prevent one. "Drive slower not during rush hour" (relax and take your meds!), have a second set of eyes on the road (involve family in your journey of care-e.g. team approach to quitting smoking, household chores, stress reduction). Live life!

 

[Anonymous]

20 year cardiology device rep here that has worked with the best and most well respected cardiologists in the country. I have worked for the biggest internal cardiac defibrillator and pacemaker companies as well as zoll lifevest. If you are looking for a non hostile x employee response with credibility, here it is. you can write this down and show it to your cardiologist and tell him these are exact statements from the top electrophysiologists in the country.and if you do not meet any of them, you don't need a lifevest. NOW, there is no 100% guarantee in practicing medicine, and a perfectly healthy person with no issues can drop dead. SO keep that in mind that the following will be accurate for 99.8% of the population, this wil guide you around the money making, marketing lies, and mis use of the Lifevest.

The lifevest is a good choice when AND ONLY a good choice ( especially with ZERO clinical outcomes studies completed ) when:

1) you have had a MI ( heart attack) AND have an EF% under 35%, AND have runs of PVC's ( non sustained VT) or episodes of ventricular tachycardia that are sustained. Notice how I stressed the word AND. if you had an MI (heart attack) and you don't have the other factors I listed, then you do NOT need a lifevest. that's non supported NO OUTCOMES mis-use of the device. marketing bologna.

2) a NEWLY diagnosed non ischemic cardiomyopathy with a very low EF under 30%. pay attention the word NEWLY. If it is a cardiomyopathy that you have had for a while with no change and no ventricular arrhythmias then why would you put a TEMPORARY device on? its another marketing bologna sector where the company pushes the device.

3) X plant patients that have a ICD and the have an infection and the device needs to be taken out until the infection clears, put the lifevest on until the ICD can be re implanted.

4) If you have had any SUSTAINED runs on ventricular tachycardia no matter what heart diagnosis you have, until they put an ICD in you. ( they really should bypass any time on the lifevest and put the ICD in now because you would meet criteria for one.

5) any GENETIC disorder where further testing is needed and a ICD cannot be implanted yet. Brugada syndrome, long QT syndrome, etc. Any genetic disorder that puts you at risk for sustained ventricular episodes that could lead to sudden cardiac death.


that's it.

sorry for typos and if I have spelling errors etc, I typed this fast and don't have time to double check it.

I agree with this. 100% accurate. The only thing I would add is in your number 2 example for non ischemic ( newly diagnosed) , if the patient is not having high burden amount of pvc's or VT then they don't need a life at either! You probably meant that and didn't add that as I could tell you were just giving a quick summary. To whoever posted this original post asking , follow this response from the above quote. It's coming from a true credible person I can tell, because they are not bashing anybody or the company. Good luck to you .

 

[Anonymous (Patient)]

Thank you to the Zoll employees and reps who replied to my question. I appreciate that you are trying to give me something to give to my doctor so I don't have to think about it, but that's not what I need.

I need some help understanding the answers to my questions so I can decide.

I'm sorry, I don't understand information going from Zoll Rep to doctor. And it seems you are just talking about if I have x condition then I will need or not need the device. I was not so much asking about that, but about the device itself and its testing and proven helpfulness.

Could you please answer my questions about the clinical trials (in plain English, not sales-person to doctor speech)?

A human being should be able to understand what the testing was, for example, Dr. Mendrola says that the database used for testing came from the company who is selling it.

Someone else here said that there were some tests of the zoll life vest, but they were from a 2011 study that has not been finished yet, and where it keeps getting changed.

Why are people wearing it if there have been no clinical trials? (or have there?) where are they?

In reading the articles it seemed like there were trials on some kind of other device (surgically inserted) and they took the information from that device and are using it to sell the life vest? (Is that what is happening)

Help me find the location of the life vest study that was not done or paid for by the zoll company?

Isn't my need of anything based on whether it works?

I thank you for your response, but can you please, instead of giving me something to give to my doctor that I don't understand. And no I don't have diabetes or smoke or hypertension and no heart arrythmias if that's what you mean by pvcs (translate?))

repeat I DONT UNDERSTAND TERMS LIKE TM, RM, PVC, WCD, IDC...etc
Could someone please help in PLAIN ENGLISH?

Maybe a non rep or former rep could reply?

I'm not needing you to speak to my doctor for me to justify the device, I'm needing help to understand so I can make an informed decision and talk to my doctor about it. I don't need my decision making bypassed (my heart is having the problem, not my brain).

1. Has the zoll life vest been studied any clinical trials or proven to save lives? Yes or No? And I would now add, are these trials that are not zoll-paid or zoll customer database studies? (meaning something independent that could not be slanted by the company selling the device controlling or picking the people for the study)?

(please explain in "real people" terms. (i.e. I don't understand your abbreviation/initials terms like TM, RM, ICD, WCD or other terms. Explain in normal, non sales rep english please)

4. Is the clinical trial that is referred to, actually for some kind of Implanted Defribulator device or the Life Vest itself?

5. I was reading Dr. Mandrola's article and it concerned me. Can someone explain it in plain English?

There's this one: http://www.drjohnm.org/?s=Life+vest
And also the one on Medscape from 2013

6. I went to check the Better Business Bureau, and there were 11 cases against Zoll, many of them seemed to be financial, but a couple were about the device Operation (this was in Pennsylvania BBB, on their online site) Does anyone know what that is about?

I forgot to add this the first time:

http://www.bbb.org/pittsburgh/Busin...poration-in-pittsburgh-pa-14001193/complaints

7. I became really concerned when I was searching the internet for information and started reading a number of other patient experiences about it. There's more than one here, but you have to hunt for it:

http://www.complaintslist.com/medical-services/zoll/

COULD YOU PLEASE SPEAK TO THESE CONCERNS ABOUT OTHER PATIENTS AND ABOUT THE DATA STUDY? Thank you

Thank you kindly.

http://www.bbb.org/pittsburgh/Busine...193/complaints

Can anyone help me to say NO? Or give me a good reason why I should wear it?

 

[Anonymous]

I am a Former Zoll employee/former ICD employee. The best way to answer your question is there is no proven scientific data to show that the LV is going to help you! The study from 2011 is still ongoing with no end in sight. The best way to put it is the LifeVest is like buying the extra car insurance when you rent a car. Your physician should present this to you as an option, an option that is extra protection. The life vest currently has a 1% save rate. It is not standard of care and is sold using scare tactics. The basis of Mandrolas article was to say that he doesn't deem it a necessary nor should it be considered a standard of care. Your physician is prescribing this device so if god forbid you do have an arrhythmia that requires you to be shocked he is covered when your family asks "Did you to everything you could to help my father?" Thats it, your doctor is covering his ass. At this moment he cannot put an ICD in you due to guidelines so he is covering his ass and prescribing an extra layer of protection for you in the off chance that you do have an arrhythmia. The same way the extra insurance is sold on the brand new Samsung TV. Have an intelligent conversation with your doctor and ask him "How many of your patients have been saved using this device?" Have a conversation with your family as well, only you and they know your actual situation, explain to them that this device is an extra layer of protection and see if they think you can handle the stress that comes with wearing this device. As far as the BBB goes Zoll is a poorly run company so those claims could really be anything as they do have horrible customer service and tech support has no idea what they are talking about and often mis diagnosis an arrhythmia. As far as the insurance goes here is an inside tip, you will not be billed until you actually get fit and sign a patient agreement. If you refuse the fit and you do not let the technician put the device on your body YOU WILL NOT BE CHARGED!

I think the life vest has a place in the market strictly with ICD explant patients as well as patients that have been offered the device and explained that it is strictly an extra layer of protection. If it makes you and your family feel better to wear the device then wear it. Most patients think it is mandatory and leave the hospital with it and are miserable within a few days, said patient then calls the doctor complains and 9 times out of 10 the doc says "take it off, its your choice."

Hope this is helpful to you and your family, best of luck!

 

[Anonymous]

One more quick point to add since I forgot. Ask your doctor if he is certain that he will in fact be implanting an ICD (implantable cardiac defibrillator) if he says 100% yes he knows that in 40-90 days he will be giving you an ICD then that is a legitimate reason to say yes to wearing the device. I am 99 percent sure that that is not the case though. So unless you have had an ICD explant or are guaranteed to be getting one then this is really an extra insurance option only. Also in response to your above questions, No the doctor is not paid by the company to push this. A good customer of mine that would prescribe between 2-4 times a week told me the only reason she did was to protect herself and that she did not believe in the device at all, but why take a chance the patient can always refuse and then it is not on her.

 

[Anonymous (Patient)]

THANK YOU!! This really does help. I thought there was no real clinical anything, even for the possibility of needing some implanted device. Now I'm convinced our doctor has probably been romanced by some zoll rep or the idea of "no cost" to reduce risk, without considering what a horrendous experience it is for most the patients I've read about. I'm so grateful for the internet. And thanks for taking the time to help.

No, I don't think there's a reason for an implanted device, but this doctor does that (puts them in) for a living, I am guessing. No one at the hospital ever spoke of needing to do that or even wanting to do that. And this person starts talking about the possibility and waiting periods, and it seemed like overkill. I think they are thinking in statistics and how much the exception I am on many counts. I kind of felt like the doctor was pushing the device on me, but when that sales person called we felt like we'd driven past a used car lot, and the guy took our plate down and was telling us we'd purchased his lemon, and now we were required to take delivery.

re: I am a Former Zoll employee/former ICD employee. The best way to answer your question is there is no proven scientific data to show that the LV is going to help you! The study from 2011 is still ongoing with no end in sight. The best way to put it is the LifeVest is like buying the extra car insurance when you rent a car. Your physician should present this to you as an option, an option that is extra protection. The life vest currently has a 1% save rate. It is not standard of care and is sold using scare tactics. The basis of Mandrolas article was to say that he doesn't deem it a necessary nor should it be considered a standard of care. Your physician is prescribing this device so if god forbid you do have an arrhythmia that requires you to be shocked he is covered when your family asks "Did you to everything you could to help my father?" Thats it, your doctor is covering his ass. At this moment he cannot put an ICD in you due to guidelines so he is covering his ass and prescribing an extra layer of protection for you in the off chance that you do have an arrhythmia. The same way the extra insurance is sold on the brand new Samsung TV. Have an intelligent conversation with your doctor and ask him "How many of your patients have been saved using this device?" Have a conversation with your family as well, only you and they know your actual situation, explain to them that this device is an extra layer of protection and see if they think you can handle the stress that comes with wearing this device. As far as the BBB goes Zoll is a poorly run company so those claims could really be anything as they do have horrible customer service and tech support has no idea what they are talking about and often mis diagnosis an arrhythmia. As far as the insurance goes here is an inside tip, you will not be billed until you actually get fit and sign a patient agreement. If you refuse the fit and you do not let the technician put the device on your body YOU WILL NOT BE CHARGED!

I think the life vest has a place in the market strictly with ICD explant patients as well as patients that have been offered the device and explained that it is strictly an extra layer of protection. If it makes you and your family feel better to wear the device then wear it. Most patients think it is mandatory and leave the hospital with it and are miserable within a few days, said patient then calls the doctor complains and 9 times out of 10 the doc says "take it off, its your choice."

Hope this is helpful to you and your family, best of luck!

 

[Anonymous]

Ok, lots of generalizations here and armchair medical advice from non-MD's. I truly hope that your source of medical advice is not Cafepharma. If it is, then you are truly ignorant, or my guess you are an attorney trolling the threads looking for angles for lawsuits. If you are, you are the worst of all humans.

To your question, the LifeVest has indications for use. If you or your family member meets the indications, then it is the decision between a patient and their doctor. That is the bottom-line end-of-story answer. Sorry for lack of drama or "cafepharma medical advice."

Maybe a second opinion from an electrophysiologist is a better option than Cafepharma.

Best of luck.

 

[Anonymous]

Ok, lots of generalizations here and armchair medical advice from non-MD's. I truly hope that your source of medical advice is not Cafepharma. If it is, then you are truly ignorant, or my guess you are an attorney trolling the threads looking for angles for lawsuits. If you are, you are the worst of all humans.

To your question, the LifeVest has indications for use. If you or your family member meets the indications, then it is the decision between a patient and their doctor. That is the bottom-line end-of-story answer. Sorry for lack of drama or "cafepharma medical advice."

Maybe a second opinion from an electrophysiologist is a better option than Cafepharma.

Best of luck.

Nice ! Call a potential customer ignorant. You represented the company exactly the way we all expected. Take a bow. You've outdone yourself this time. You suggest the patient get a second opinion from an EP but you have no problem telling tech support to forward a call to logistics to remove a vest, Without Drs consent by the way. Oh I forgot you have a police for this. Lol. Maybe you should follow it. End of story!

 

[Anonymous]

Ok, lots of generalizations here and armchair medical advice from non-MD's. I truly hope that your source of medical advice is not Cafepharma. If it is, then you are truly ignorant, or my guess you are an attorney trolling the threads looking for angles for lawsuits. If you are, you are the worst of all humans.

To your question, the LifeVest has indications for use. If you or your family member meets the indications, then it is the decision between a patient and their doctor. That is the bottom-line end-of-story answer. Sorry for lack of drama or "cafepharma medical advice."

Maybe a second opinion from an electrophysiologist is a better option than Cafepharma.

Best of luck.

The person who posted this is rude, but spot on. Really, Cafepharma for medical advice?

 

[Anonymous]

The person who posted this is rude, but spot on. Really, Cafepharma for medical advice?

Look they are just looking for information to make an informed decision. For you, me or anyone on this site to think that someone would take our comments over a provider sight unseen is delusional and arrogant.

 

[Anonymous]

Look they are just looking for information to make an informed decision. For you, me or anyone on this site to think that someone would take our comments over a provider sight unseen is delusional and arrogant.

Yup. Well said. You just described Zoll.

 

[Anonymous]

Look they are just looking for information to make an informed decision. For you, me or anyone on this site to think that someone would take our comments over a provider sight unseen is delusional and arrogant.

He just did.

 

[Anonymous]

He just did.

I am not sure they did. The patient obviously had multiple discussions with multiple healthcare providers prior to coming to this forum. In those discussions even they weren't completely clear as to the need or rationale (i.e. data). Imagine the conversation and response over "Do I really need to take a beta blocker or a statin?" This left questions in the patient's mind and as they went through a discovery found more negative than positive. The last resort was to engage in a "technical, industry forum" to seek "insider" information and education and clarification to their line of thought and rationales. If I were buying a new car and heard mixed reviews and then had access to a manufacturers line assembler or quality person, why wouldn't I take their opinions into consideration. In the end I would suggest the previous responses just validated a position they already concluded.

In the end, the providers didn't and couldn't unequivocally recommend a WCD and that left the patient to seek an understanding. Healthcare is changing and the patient/consumer is and will have more say in their care. The following scenario will play out more often than not within a methodically thinking population. The rest will fall victim to Zoll propaganda and fear mongering at the bedside.

 

[Anonymous]

Thank you to the Zoll employees and reps who replied to my question. I appreciate that you are trying to give me something to give to my doctor so I don't have to think about it, but that's not what I need.

I need some help understanding the answers to my questions so I can decide.

I'm sorry, I don't understand information going from Zoll Rep to doctor. And it seems you are just talking about if I have x condition then I will need or not need the device. I was not so much asking about that, but about the device itself and its testing and proven helpfulness.

Could you please answer my questions about the clinical trials (in plain English, not sales-person to doctor speech)?

A human being should be able to understand what the testing was, for example, Dr. Mendrola says that the database used for testing came from the company who is selling it.

Someone else here said that there were some tests of the zoll life vest, but they were from a 2011 study that has not been finished yet, and where it keeps getting changed.

Why are people wearing it if there have been no clinical trials? (or have there?) where are they?

In reading the articles it seemed like there were trials on some kind of other device (surgically inserted) and they took the information from that device and are using it to sell the life vest? (Is that what is happening)

Help me find the location of the life vest study that was not done or paid for by the zoll company?

Isn't my need of anything based on whether it works?

I thank you for your response, but can you please, instead of giving me something to give to my doctor that I don't understand. And no I don't have diabetes or smoke or hypertension and no heart arrythmias if that's what you mean by pvcs (translate?))

repeat I DONT UNDERSTAND TERMS LIKE TM, RM, PVC, WCD, IDC...etc
Could someone please help in PLAIN ENGLISH?

Maybe a non rep or former rep could reply?

I'm not needing you to speak to my doctor for me to justify the device, I'm needing help to understand so I can make an informed decision and talk to my doctor about it. I don't need my decision making bypassed (my heart is having the problem, not my brain).

1. Has the zoll life vest been studied any clinical trials or proven to save lives? Yes or No? And I would now add, are these trials that are not zoll-paid or zoll customer database studies? (meaning something independent that could not be slanted by the company selling the device controlling or picking the people for the study)?

(please explain in "real people" terms. (i.e. I don't understand your abbreviation/initials terms like TM, RM, ICD, WCD or other terms. Explain in normal, non sales rep english please)

4. Is the clinical trial that is referred to, actually for some kind of Implanted Defribulator device or the Life Vest itself?

5. I was reading Dr. Mandrola's article and it concerned me. Can someone explain it in plain English?

There's this one: http://www.drjohnm.org/?s=Life+vest
And also the one on Medscape from 2013

6. I went to check the Better Business Bureau, and there were 11 cases against Zoll, many of them seemed to be financial, but a couple were about the device Operation (this was in Pennsylvania BBB, on their online site) Does anyone know what that is about?

I forgot to add this the first time:

http://www.bbb.org/pittsburgh/Busin...poration-in-pittsburgh-pa-14001193/complaints

7. I became really concerned when I was searching the internet for information and started reading a number of other patient experiences about it. There's more than one here, but you have to hunt for it:

http://www.complaintslist.com/medical-services/zoll/

COULD YOU PLEASE SPEAK TO THESE CONCERNS ABOUT OTHER PATIENTS AND ABOUT THE DATA STUDY? Thank you

Thank you kindly.

http://www.bbb.org/pittsburgh/Busine...193/complaints

Can anyone help me to say NO? Or give me a good reason why I should wear it?

Dude - You are annoying as hell. Educate yourself with any of the unlimited resources available to your dumb @ss. If you don't know the term ICD here is a novel idea.... GOOGLE IT! If you don't trust your Doctor here is a novel idea.... GET A NEW ONE. Stop spending your time on cafepharma wanting other people to do your job as a concerned patient for you and utilize your resources (NOTE - this website is not a real resource)

 

[Anonymous]

Dude - You are annoying as hell. Educate yourself with any of the unlimited resources available to your dumb @ss. If you don't know the term ICD here is a novel idea.... GOOGLE IT! If you don't trust your Doctor here is a novel idea.... GET A NEW ONE. Stop spending your time on cafepharma wanting other people to do your job as a concerned patient for you and utilize your resources (NOTE - this website is not a real resource)

Insanely well said! This "patient" is totally bizarre. Cafepharma as "insight" to good industry opinions and heath care advice. BTW, there is no chance this is a real patient, and I love the ZOLL "health care advice" Not sure what med school these ZOLL Folks attended...idiots!

 

[Anonymous]

Dude - You are annoying as hell. Educate yourself with any of the unlimited resources available to your dumb @ss. If you don't know the term ICD here is a novel idea.... GOOGLE IT! If you don't trust your Doctor here is a novel idea.... GET A NEW ONE. Stop spending your time on cafepharma wanting other people to do your job as a concerned patient for you and utilize your resources (NOTE - this website is not a real resource)

Prophet like answer!

 

[Anonymous]

Nice scummy low ball responses. Whether you agree or not with the "patients" means of education or "state of mind" be professional, which you obviously can not!
1.) if you were a true Sales person- you would address the concerns.."concentrically". Since you did not nor can not that speaks volumes of your abilities

2.) If your a manager- well bullying and marginalizing just cost you. The fact that you can not engage in meaningful discourse or guide the conversation shows your lack of credibility, leadership and overall tact.

3.) Marketing- nice posts! keep up the good work. I guess you missed the patient engagement part in your "months of experience" getting kicked out of offices as a field pleb.
Once again you take an opportunity of learning and growth and turn it into a dung heap. Enjoy the ride as this will be as good as it gets in your career. lol.

To the patient, an ethical company would wish you well in your journey to health. Good luck.

 

[Anonymous]

Nice scummy low ball responses. Whether you agree or not with the "patients" means of education or "state of mind" be professional, which you obviously can not!
1.) if you were a true Sales person- you would address the concerns.."concentrically". Since you did not nor can not that speaks volumes of your abilities

2.) If your a manager- well bullying and marginalizing just cost you. The fact that you can not engage in meaningful discourse or guide the conversation shows your lack of credibility, leadership and overall tact.

3.) Marketing- nice posts! keep up the good work. I guess you missed the patient engagement part in your "months of experience" getting kicked out of offices as a field pleb.
Once again you take an opportunity of learning and growth and turn it into a dung heap. Enjoy the ride as this will be as good as it gets in your career. lol.

To the patient, an ethical company would wish you well in your journey to health. Good luck.

Nice high road response. Something the others didn't seem to understand nor encourage. The reps/managers/marketing responses merely confirms the reputation of the company and leadership.