Not such good news about ABH Dermagraft

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Anonymous

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So I hear DermaGraft has been buying off doctors... Taking trips everywhere, paying them salaries to use the product, especially at VA's... Anyone know what's up with all this?? Apparently Shire just bought a MeSS of a company..
 






Anonymous said:
So I hear DermaGraft has been buying off doctors... Taking trips everywhere, paying them salaries to use the product, especially at VA's... Anyone know what's up with all this?? Apparently Shire just bought a MeSS of a company..
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Clearly you are full of shit and have no idea what you are talking about. Douche.
 






This acquisition is great news for Shire reps and terrible for the current ABH reps. The dermagraft reps average 175k per year and have several thousand dollars per month to spend on entertainment with customers. ABH does not follow ADVAMED/PHARMA guidelines and can still do all the entertainment/dinners, without limit, that used to happen 15 years ago. Many unethical things have happened with this company. As far as the compensation, it will certainly be scaled back to a more 'pharma' model.

I guarantee you that half the current dermagraft reps leave in the next six months. This will open up great opportunities for current Shire reps. It will get you outta the pharma stigma.
 






Anonymous said:
So I hear DermaGraft has been buying off doctors... Taking trips everywhere, paying them salaries to use the product, especially at VA's... Anyone know what's up with all this?? Apparently Shire just bought a MeSS of a company..
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If the va administration ever gets wind of the names of doctors receiving money from ABH and finds out about the gift cards and dermagraft scrubs they give to the staff, the walls will come tumbling down. It's amazing the doctors and staff allow reps to prep and apply dermagraft on patients, I thought patient contact was a no no, I guess that's why they wear scrubs. To make them officially the idiots in blue. Look at me I'm wearing scrubs, I'm important. And the mangers wear scrubs too? Really, obvious to tell you came from pharma and now your back to pharma. Congrats.
 






Anonymous said:
If the va administration ever gets wind of the names of doctors receiving money from ABH and finds out about the gift cards and dermagraft scrubs they give to the staff, the walls will come tumbling down. It's amazing the doctors and staff allow reps to prep and apply dermagraft on patients, I thought patient contact was a no no, I guess that's why they wear scrubs. To make them officially the idiots in blue. Look at me I'm wearing scrubs, I'm important. And the mangers wear scrubs too? Really, obvious to tell you came from pharma and now your back to pharma. Congrats.
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You're an idiot and a mis-informed one at that. I've been here a year and have been very successful after 7+ years in OR sales. I have NEVER paid a doc, given scrubs, or had any patient contact (outside of a handshake as they leave). Got over the fact that we've been kicking your ass for years. Get a new job since you can't sell your graft. Quit making claims about bad apples that left the company years ago.

Oh- and as for our comp going down- that's total bullshit speculation on your part. Ethicon and Gynecare are both part of J&J, yet their reps are paid like device reps despite J&J having a large pharma presence. You're just bitter because your shitty company (OI, HP, KCI) can't comp you liek us and your Dermagraft rep is mopping the floor with you.....
 






I agree DG is mopping the floor with OI and others and will most likely do it more with such a large company behind them. I would assume that DG will get the VLU indication or they would not have been purchased.
Now...as far as the trips for docs and other special perks....I hear that it happens a lot. I hear the VA located in the desert out west is a prime example. I don't know if it is true, but I sure hear about it.
 






Anonymous said:
You're an idiot and a mis-informed one at that. I've been here a year and have been very successful after 7+ years in OR sales. I have NEVER paid a doc, given scrubs, or had any patient contact (outside of a handshake as they leave). Got over the fact that we've been kicking your ass for years. Get a new job since you can't sell your graft. Quit making claims about bad apples that left the company years ago.

Oh- and as for our comp going down- that's total bullshit speculation on your part. Ethicon and Gynecare are both part of J&J, yet their reps are paid like device reps despite J&J having a large pharma presence. You're just bitter because your shitty company (OI, HP, KCI) can't comp you liek us and your Dermagraft rep is mopping the floor with you.....
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Shire rep here..I agree and were happy to have you guys and DG
 












Anonymous said:
I have watched the DG rep prepare and help implant DG in my local VA. I have also watched the other DG rep apply DG to a patient.
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Well I saw Santa and the Easter Bunny too.....piss off poser!

I have seen the Oasis rep prepare their shitty pigskin. And I've seen OI reps prepare their product. We are categorically trained not to apply product to patients. Any rep doing this is acting of their own accord. But I doubt this is really happening.

As for "payments" to docs, there is nothing illegal going on. We have speaker training courses that we send docs to at corporate. That's it. Outside of speaking honoarias, this is all smoke and mirrors by some OI or Oasis rep who is getting OWNED by DG!
 






Wonder why there is no ABH board. Were too freaking busy thinking for ourselves and busting our asses. Don't have time to piddle & bitch, like you pharma drones. You people couldn't handle the grind and 14 hour work days.
 






Anonymous said:
Wonder why there is no ABH board. Were too freaking busy thinking for ourselves and busting our asses. Don't have time to piddle & bitch, like you pharma drones. You people couldn't handle the grind and 14 hour work days.
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Thank goodness you had some extra time to post the above reply! Wheww.

As far as the DG reps touching and applying product....I have witnessed that. I have seen one particular rep thaw a lot of DG and pull it from the bag and hold it before handing the entire mesh to the doc. I have witnessed his non-va counterpart apply to a patient. Back in the day, we were trained not to handle it due to potentially removing or killing cells. Oh well. On to the scrubs....I have walked in and witnessed the DG rep taking sizes and also handing the scrubs out. There are a couple of docs that wear those in the clinic.
I am not saying you are wrong for buying the business.....just wish I could do the same! Maybe this big Pharma group will reel that stuff in?
By the way, some of the DG reps actually brag about what they can do!
 






Anonymous said:
This acquisition is great news for Shire reps and terrible for the current ABH reps. The dermagraft reps average 175k per year and have several thousand dollars per month to spend on entertainment with customers. ABH does not follow ADVAMED/PHARMA guidelines and can still do all the entertainment/dinners, without limit, that used to happen 15 years ago. Many unethical things have happened with this company. As far as the compensation, it will certainly be scaled back to a more 'pharma' model.

I guarantee you that half the current dermagraft reps leave in the next six months. This will open up great opportunities for current Shire reps. It will get you outta the pharma stigma.
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Obviously you know nothing about Dermaraft reps if you think 175K is average. LOL!!!!!
 


















Anonymous said:
Interesting article.....a must read:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/01/health/01device.html?_r=1

How would something like this impact.....hmmm...I dunno....lets say... skin sub companies?
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This is a bullshit article. Obviously, you are a silly pharma rep who has never done anything but push pills your whole life. I worked in implants for years before coming to ABH. This kind of inflammatory article has been done many times. We could easily write pieces like this about pharma as well where there is a perceived correlation between consulting/speaking fees and scripts written by docs. Bottom line- this is a hack job and you are trying to twist things to make a point. Epic fail. This will have no impact on skin sub companies-or any one else.
 






Anonymous said:
Thank goodness you had some extra time to post the above reply! Wheww.

As far as the DG reps touching and applying product....I have witnessed that. I have seen one particular rep thaw a lot of DG and pull it from the bag and hold it before handing the entire mesh to the doc. I have witnessed his non-va counterpart apply to a patient. Back in the day, we were trained not to handle it due to potentially removing or killing cells. Oh well. On to the scrubs....I have walked in and witnessed the DG rep taking sizes and also handing the scrubs out. There are a couple of docs that wear those in the clinic.
I am not saying you are wrong for buying the business.....just wish I could do the same! Maybe this big Pharma group will reel that stuff in?
By the way, some of the DG reps actually brag about what they can do!
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Ahh this is great. I've been with ABH a good long while and the haters never seem to stop, die down, wisen up, or quit bitching. We are a rough culture built on accountability and production. If reps are found lacking in any of these 2 areas, they dont last long and end complaining about us to their friends, family, and on this site. Couple Facts for you in no particular order: we help heal patients better than any other product or vendor because we are driven by actual clinical outcomes on Mrs. Smith in room 2. We are not grabbing signatures and showing a clinical from 1999. Also, we are not "can you place another order for me"- see my OI rep. Little cheap dressed joke makes me laugh every time he sticks his head in the windows of the clinics once a month where I'm going from room to room on a weekly basis with the doc and staff. We actually care about financially protecting hospitals and practices with insurance verifications, proper billing, coding, documentation, and business reviews. These facts have allowed us to kick the living piss out of most anyone in wound care. Since coming here, everyone has always said we're going to jail, yet here we are. We are a member of Advamed and have been for almost 2 years.
As a senior rep would i have initially rather gone public? Hell yes. We all came here with something to prove and are proud of what we've built. Today I am optimistic that Shire will help us where we are weak, and make us stronger in what we are best at. If they choose to allow us to work, we will kill it for them- they are currently saying all the right things so again, I'm hopeful. Here is the last and most important fact: a big company already tried to pharma job this product and job out about 5 years ago. S&N spent $400M on DG and sold it for $2M and were actually happy to get the "looser" of a product off their books. We came along and now 4 years later you buy us for $750M. I would ask you not make the same mistakes as S&N. If you do, you will loose 1/2 of ABH reps inside of a year. You will replace them with 25 yr old pharma glossy page turners (I used to be one) and you will be kicking yourself for buying this company and product. We are damn good because we are well paid to be and well motivated to work 14+ hour day. I know I sound self important, but believe me: facts are facts about what is required here. I make 3 times what my nearest competitor in wound care makes and I work 10 times harder than him/her. That's why we get the business. Not bc we pay docs (which we don't).
 






I agree with almost everything that you say. Up until the statement that you do not pay docs. ABH has ruled on every point and that needs to be mentioned.
However, defining the term "pay docs" is very loose to say the least. A great product, great outcomes, but real shady business practice.
I actually admire what you guys have done in wound care. BRAVO
 






Anonymous said:
I agree with almost everything that you say. Up until the statement that you do not pay docs. ABH has ruled on every point and that needs to be mentioned.
However, defining the term "pay docs" is very loose to say the least. A great product, great outcomes, but real shady business practice.
I actually admire what you guys have done in wound care. BRAVO
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While I appreciate your partial agreeance, I invite you to both step in line with the other doubters and additionally you can shampoo my crotch.

BRAVO

Didnt I start off my first post with, "rough culture"? There you go... my description of that wasn't so loose was it?
 






I don't know or care what you started your first post off with. If you claim that some reps for ABH have not crossed the line....whatever. I know what I have been witness to.
As far as the shampoo comment.....sounds like you have issues....crabby issues. What would make one think of a comment like that? I would guess experience in the crabby sense. Disgusting.
 






Anonymous said:
I don't know or care what you started your first post off with. If you claim that some reps for ABH have not crossed the line....whatever. I know what I have been witness to.
As far as the shampoo comment.....sounds like you have issues....crabby issues. What would make one think of a comment like that? I would guess experience in the crabby sense. Disgusting.
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1st off, from a mental capacity standpoint, you sir have clearly brought a knife to a gun fight. That was from "As Good as it Gets" you numb nuts. "Witness to?" You are flat out fucking hysterical!! Any Shire reps ever "cross the line?" Any Honda dealers ever "cross the line"? Any American Cancer Sociaety reps ever "cross the line"? Yes. Your point? Is it a culture? No.

Happy Friday!
 






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