Not accepting BS

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Anonymous said:
You are So WRONG! How much do you have to read on here to realize hard working reps are being targeted? You must not have been here that long or perhaps you don't make much more than a starting employee at 52k. Maybe you are such a tool that you are not being targeted right now. You're a dumb ass, okay? Can I be any more clear? This is happening to hard working reps that have given their souls to Forest. Do you even know what "A CEO and his Son" is? What Forest is doing goes agents everything in that book, yes, it is a book.

Thank you to the prior poster. I have done all that and spoken to an attorney who said I have a case if fired.

To the poster who fought, did you get to keep your job? Were you transferred? Thank you.
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watch yer breath rep-or the dm's will stuff it with grape leaves!
 






Anonymous said:
You are So WRONG! How much do you have to read on here to realize hard working reps are being targeted? You must not have been here that long or perhaps you don't make much more than a starting employee at 52k. Maybe you are such a tool that you are not being targeted right now. You're a dumb ass, okay? Can I be any more clear? This is happening to hard working reps that have given their souls to Forest. Do you even know what "A CEO and his Son" is? What Forest is doing goes agents everything in that book, yes, it is a book.

Thank you to the prior poster. I have done all that and spoken to an attorney who said I have a case if fired.

To the poster who fought, did you get to keep your job? Were you transferred? Thank you.
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Yes, I was able to transfer to another DM that was happy to have me on his team. It was tough though because we still had meetings together. I starting looking and found another company about a year later as the manager I had problems with was about to move up the ladder and I saw that as a repeat problem. I performed extremely well and won every award out there over the years (3x Presidents club) however the manager I had issues with did not like me and had my position slotted for one of his buddies.

As to the poster that stated that the DM's "just want us to work..." that may be true for some, but I have seen rogue managers destroy great reps because of personal differences. The truth is that no matter how hard you try to do everything perfect you will eventually make errors/mistakes somewhere and a hostile manager will accuse you of every in the book when they catch it. Much of what the managers will do to chase you out is subjective (FCR's). You can make a perfect call at every office during the ride along yet be told what a horrible job you did.

Bottom line... choose your battles wisely and realize that all you can do is your best.
Best of luck
 
























This BS is happening all over. Good reps being run out.

In Oregon, alot of good reps have been targeted, run out, and fired for no good reasons. Just started getting poor ride along scores over night.

All this while pathetic DM's like DH continue to be employed?? How many times do DM's get a free pass to screw up and have piss poor numbers. The ship begins to sink when no one respects the DM's or RD.

I have not seen anyone get off a letter of any kind for long. They might get good numbers for a couple months, but this only prolongs the enevidable. Once you have a target on your back your done, and HR is only there to protect the management.
 






I read with much interest these last few posts. I have over 20 years in pharma including Forest. This BS is happening everywhere. They can afford to squeeze reps out, replace them, and replace them again and still make a profit in that territory. Turn over is of no concern: the price of doing business. Yes, MANY times it is political and the firing of a rep is manufactured. Top performers, pres club winners and hard workers. Sometimes, most of the time, the reps are underperforming. It is the sad truth of the industry now. Everybody is tortured, most are unhappy (including mng). Goals are crazy, generics and HMO coverage is killing us , drs won't see us and all the time the company is screaming "more. more, more sales!" Get out if you want, stay if you're happy.
 






Anonymous said:
This BS is happening all over. Good reps being run out.

In Oregon, alot of good reps have been targeted, run out, and fired for no good reasons. Just started getting poor ride along scores over night.

All this while pathetic DM's like DH continue to be employed?? How many times do DM's get a free pass to screw up and have piss poor numbers. The ship begins to sink when no one respects the DM's or RD.

I have not seen anyone get off a letter of any kind for long. They might get good numbers for a couple months, but this only prolongs the enevidable. Once you have a target on your back your done, and HR is only there to protect the management.
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DH a good dm-shim eats waffles with their feet
 






Anonymous said:
This BS is happening all over. Good reps being run out.

In Oregon, alot of good reps have been targeted, run out, and fired for no good reasons. Just started getting poor ride along scores over night.

All this while pathetic DM's like DH continue to be employed?? How many times do DM's get a free pass to screw up and have piss poor numbers. The ship begins to sink when no one respects the DM's or RD.

I have not seen anyone get off a letter of any kind for long. They might get good numbers for a couple months, but this only prolongs the enevidable. Once you have a target on your back your done, and HR is only there to protect the management.
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100% agree, one of the better post in a long time. NObody survives a PIP or LOC at Forest, it is the norm and the managers are all puppets in the mix. They target reps, circle them on a spreadsheet and then the process begins. ONce you are identified to be worked out, it is over there is no way to stop this ball from rolling down hill. You can theorize all you want but once it starts your job is over.

Maybe you have a month or whatever but the decision to make your life miserable and eventually fired is already written in stone. Unfortunately at Forest, the "pod mates" back stab and the specialty reps have got many a rep fired and sometimes visa versa, but rarely. The rep at this company are just as big of a problem as middle management. Sad but very very true....... not ALL reps are loser and slime but I have worked at many a pharma and FRX reps seem to be the biggest fucking insecure losers I have ever seen and their reputation follows them EVERYWHERE.

Ask a doc what they think of their Forest reps once you quit, it is fucking ridiculous how Forest is viewed as shady, used car salesmen, hard charging annoying buttfucks. I was embarrassed after my first year as an employee here to even give my card to the receptionist as they immediately rolled their eyes, not because of my name but because of the company....end of discussion.
 












Anonymous said:
This BS is happening all over. Good reps being run out.

In Oregon, alot of good reps have been targeted, run out, and fired for no good reasons. Just started getting poor ride along scores over night.

All this while pathetic DM's like DH continue to be employed?? How many times do DM's get a free pass to screw up and have piss poor numbers. The ship begins to sink when no one respects the DM's or RD.

I have not seen anyone get off a letter of any kind for long. They might get good numbers for a couple months, but this only prolongs the enevidable. Once you have a target on your back your done, and HR is only there to protect the management.
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I know 2 reps on different sales forces who got off official warning letters.
 






Anonymous said:
I know 2 reps on different sales forces who got off official warning letters.
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Yes, it is possible, but not for everyone. And has been said, will you ultimately get canned anyway? Is this the life you want? I am in this bs position. It's not so easy. Should I fight it because I know I can or should I look for a job that doesn't have so much subjective crap? Screw the economy, if you're smart, successful, ass kicking, etc....there are jobs. If there aren't, you aren't all that or not trying hard enough. Ultimately you have to decide if this is the life you want.
Hey DMs, are you REALLY proud of what you do?
 












Don't sign anything you dont agree with. Use FACTS and documentation to prove you were evaluated or were treated to a different standard than other reps or to show how you were discriminated against for age, race, disability, etc. List any unprofessional or sexual harassment type remarks. Keep working to get numbers. Even if you are fine now, start keeping all this just in case.
 












Guys - easiest way to avoid being fired is simply to use the "compliance" card. We are so heavily regulated as an industry, and Forest is scared to death. Take this advice from someone for whom it worked to a tee.

Each of us has emails / voicemails where something can be misinterpreted from our DM's / RD's / etc. Save them.

In addition, we all have great relationships with our doc's. Gain examples of potential off label discussions for uses with our products, true or un true. Most of our guys will vouch for us that our DM's / RD's have mentioned something during a sales call to that effect.

Trust me, if you can provide any emails that could even hint at potential off lable promotion, or even chosing speakers based off of their experience with our products, etc. And, if you can have a doc call our compliance department to hint at a discussion that may have happened, again true or untrue, you will be in business.

I've come out looking like a hero potential whistle blower, while these dicks that used to be our "leaders" have quickly been replaced. Ha Ha.

I was once on probation and ready to be fired, and now I own this company. I'm untouchable, and now I get to work less than I ever did.

Again, stick to compliance accusations, and you can do whatever you want with this company. Good luck.
 






Anonymous said:
Guys - easiest way to avoid being fired is simply to use the "compliance" card. We are so heavily regulated as an industry, and Forest is scared to death. Take this advice from someone for whom it worked to a tee.

Each of us has emails / voicemails where something can be misinterpreted from our DM's / RD's / etc. Save them.

In addition, we all have great relationships with our doc's. Gain examples of potential off label discussions for uses with our products, true or un true. Most of our guys will vouch for us that our DM's / RD's have mentioned something during a sales call to that effect.

Trust me, if you can provide any emails that could even hint at potential off lable promotion, or even chosing speakers based off of their experience with our products, etc. And, if you can have a doc call our compliance department to hint at a discussion that may have happened, again true or untrue, you will be in business.

I've come out looking like a hero potential whistle blower, while these dicks that used to be our "leaders" have quickly been replaced. Ha Ha.

I was once on probation and ready to be fired, and now I own this company. I'm untouchable, and now I get to work less than I ever did.

Again, stick to compliance accusations, and you can do whatever you want with this company. Good luck.
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Send all your emails re off-label promotion to this guy - http://fiddaman.blogspot.com

I'm sure he'd post them all whilst protecting the sender, although his main gripe just seems to be antidepressants, particularly Paxil.
 






Anonymous said:
Has anyone fought or disputed being targeted for termination or being given a warning that has no merit? I don't even want to keep my job if it means giving up everything I believe in but I don't want to resign either.
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Yes, you have to fight it hard by contering everything they document that is negative and send it in to HR. Even though HR won't defend you or help you; if you build your case they will have a harder time pulling the trigger on you for fear of not having an open and shut case. This is assuming you are in a protected class, however. You will really piss off your Dm in the process but who gives a fuck. You might as well make his/her life miserable which a good fight will because HR will demand more documentation from them.

Copy everything and get everything you can in writing including recording conversations during ride alongs - perfectly legal by the way.
 






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