Blah, Blah, Blah.... Astra has horrible stability and what is hot in this market is high initial stability and immediate provisionals. Regardless patients and restorative dentists care about teeth and the sad truth is most OMFS' don't give a damn about crestal bone loss or the connection. If you haven't figured out yet that the best rep wins, (given that you work for one of the top 5) then you are never going to succeed in this market. We are in sales and if you service your customers and add extra value, more than your competitors, then you will win. Hard work, skills, and time in territory trumps scientific data and connections all day long. Why do you think companies put so many resources towards the sales force. Have some self respect and worth and quit debating who's widget is the best. Or better yet keep debating this while I take your top account to dinner and get in his referral's ears. Good luck.
The person that is from Astra is Chris Hall. He would be the only one to talk about both Astra and Implant Direct. Chris left Astra for ID and when he could not hack it anymore he came crawiling back to Astra like the little shit he is.
OK, all Nobel has to offer is the NobelActive fixture in limited sizes - the rest have a flat to flat interface so they are crap. ITI is still trying to push the single stage biologic width nonsense. Anyone who has ever tried to graft around a single stage implant will tell you it is much easier to do around a bone level fixture with a cover screw in place. Few surgeons can consistently place them ideally thought anyone seems to be able to qualify as an ITI fellow. 3i has a silly connection and a questionable surface thought the prosthetic parts are very good. Zimmer? ID's Legacy 3 is probably better. Bicon and Ankylos you have to bury 2.0 mm to get them to work.
Astra makes a much better bone level fixture than all of the above and the prosthetic line is complete. Surface is excellent and size range goes from 3.0 to 5.0 mm and could even be expanded to 5.5 mm if they wanted to add a fourth platform like ID's Legacy 3. Astra makes fixtures as short a 6.0 mm and again they could expand the diameter range offered beyond 4.0 mm if they added a fourth platform. Then you might add that Astra is probably the only company that qualifies as a medical divice manufacture in that they test what they sell prior to turning things over to the marketing department.
After that you just have numerous pretenders like the ones constantly mentioned on this blog......................
So you work for Astra or ID if you can get along with Jerry. But based on the comments posted here many of you have painted yourself into a corner.
Still bored ? ? ?
Again. The best rep wins. PERIOD! Take you product specs and shove it, this isn"t medical or pharma.
Astra has been around long enough and still has not established itself as a major player. Atlantis did nothing for them. PS is a big issue. They say they have no bone loss but studies are done at time of abutment connection, not implant placement.
Astra has been around long enough and still has not established itself as a major player. Atlantis did nothing for them. PS is a big issue. They say they have no bone loss but studies are done at time of abutment connection, not implant placement.
Might work with family physicians prescribing Nexium or something, but its a different world in dental...IMHO
Exactly. In Europe, they sell their products based on performance figures and expect the one with the best numbers to prevail, though the method of acheiving those numbers may be suspect sometimes.
When I worked at Vident/Vita we were given products by HQ in Germany that were very successful there and then questioned in the US "WHY can't you sell this to Americans? They must either be stupid or incompetent to not recognize our product is better."
The fact of the matter is, the US market is driven by slick marketing and sales from the podium by rockstar clinicians.
In my lab, we see Nobelbiocare implants 10:1 over any other brand. Their marketing is driven at the American dentist, and I have three different NBC reps who visit me, some of them weekly. A cooincidence? A superior product, or better marketing and support?
I believe the latter. As for Astra buying Atlantis or Zimmers new abutment center hurting or helping, Etkon sure didn't help Strauman, even though the Etkon system works satisfactorily. There are so many low cost custom abutment options out there, I'm not sure adding it to the stable adds anything.
It comes down to who can help an undertrained, underskilled dentist understand the system, thereby making the surgeon look good, and who gives lab support to small labs who don't know what to do with the case once they get it. In this regard, Nobel seems to come out on top every time, no matter where my dentist is located. Smaller territories, and seperate lab and dentist reps is the key...not necessarily the performance of the implant itself because they all have 98% success rates for the most part.
Maybe being in the lab business you can enlighten us as to the numerous low cost custom abutment solutions available. Labs I have talked to like Atlantis because they don't have to have one of their more talented people working on abutments.
Agree training general dentists is a valuable asset and Nobel does a good job. Trilobe connection isn't the best but if the surgeon orients the lobes ideally they are easy to restore and that seems to be driving the market even thought the NobelActive is probably a better design. As for clinical ease of use Astra's double hex is a pain in the ass and they need to make it go away. This complaint is damn near legendary but nobody seems to be listening. Besides the abutments are only single hexed so any potential mechanical advantage is lost with the exception being the insertion drivers which are double hexed.
I colored the last part of your post only because it sounds like a typical company response. The points you made are quite valid, but in the big picture of little relavance. The position of anti rotaion features are really inconsequential when you are making custom abutments which is about 80% of the time, and only of minor consequence when using stock abutments.
Just off the top of my head, I can think of a bunch of ISO certified CAD CAM custom abutment/bar resources that are way cheaper the Atlantis, Precera, Etkon or 3i:
Dale: $225 apx
Whip Mix $180 apx
ZirconiaAbuments.com $200 apx
GC $199 apx
Preat $199 apx
New Best $180
Inclusive $99
Then, there are some in-house options as well. For example, I can make them on my Lava machine for about $105 each, with my Cercon for about the same, and with my Intelletech for about $85.
Mark,
Last time I checked Atlantis abutments were costing us $209/unit so the savings you point out aren't all that significant. Some of the others are two piece solutions which don't excite me very much. Haven't used Ekton, Procera or 3i but for their systems in particular they must work well. Probably the biggest advantage for Astra buying Atlantis has been getting into offices their reps might not otherwise call on. Nothing like picking up a few more email addresses, but I don't think reps use this to their advantage the way they could or should.
Hey Mark,
When you worked with the Itero which happened:
1. You had people out on the highway pulling over?
or 2. You went directly into a light show induced seizure?
Or 3. You turned around and sold it for 100 dollars on the cent to some avid Lazer Floyd fans
Just wondering.
Hey why don't you two guys move your conversation to some lab rep technical board, you are misposting here. This is a dental manufacturers rep board, its obvious you two do not fall into that category.
Hey why don't you two guys move your conversation to some lab rep technical board, you are misposting here. This is a dental manufacturers rep board, its obvious you two do not fall into that category.
Are you afraid about learning something technical about implants/dentistry....................or are you just frustrated waiting for Niznick's next comment?
Good sales reps WANT to hear what their customers know and think about the company they work for. And they also want to know about their competitors companies and why they might be losing business to them. Since I make bars and custom abutments, and ceramic copings, doesn't that make me your competitior?
If I were you, I'd start thinking of questions to ask, and break out a notepad.
