Ex Nobel Rep here, How are things now that KM is out of the picture?
Nobel Biocare
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Kevin Mosher you Budhead!, Now Melker Nilsson will become President!
He will annihilate all NobelProcera parasites and other parasitic zoonoses or let the real CAD/CAM systems call the shot.
As a Procera customer, I'm hoping the e.Max collaboration will help breathe some life back into Procera. It's a great product, but frankly I think the company lost momentum when it dumped resources into marketing to the public. Granted, we saw it work for Lumineers and Invisalign, but it's a very hard and expensive way to go, not to mention non-invasive procedures appeal to the public, and crowns are just not sexy enough to cause a buzz.
I believe impression scanning and titanium copings are not ready for prime time, and will only dillute the message. I hope the powers that be will listen to the labs who know, and not do everything organically and without customer input. Procera as a brand will only lose more ground by promoting products people don't need.
IMHO
BTW, BruxZir, full contour translucent zirconia is the hottest product in our line up at the moment, followed closely be e.Max. I'm not getting requests for titanium crowns, and the technicial challenges to making them work means I'm unlikely to promote them.
Hi You shit pack, do you remember when you where “daring” and “double daring” people against Procera! What is going on now?!
Do you need a job or some consulting from Vogel and other losers at Yorba Linda so you trash down the e.Max as a #2 to improve your chances!!!
You seem to understand the entire complexity of the dental market so why don’t you go and ask Molker for a fee scanner in return of teaching Vogel and other leaches around him what the tooth is…. they still think Procera is a Swedish sausage.
Do you need a job or some consulting from Vogel and other losers at Yorba Linda so you trash down the e.Max as a #2 to improve your chances!!!
You seem to understand the entire complexity of the dental market so why don’t you go and ask Molker for a fee scanner in return of teaching Vogel and other leaches around him what the tooth is…. they still think Procera is a Swedish sausage.
as i understood it, the titanium copings are there to rival all gold crowns.....titanium crowns are real big in europe, just not in the usa
Haha and touche'
Yes, I did trash on Procera in the early days. You have to admit it was well deserved at the time. The fit was described as "passive" yet, we both know it was much worse than that.
I have a full compliment of CAD CAM systems, and I really measure their merit on quality and ability to drive sales to my lab. The Quality part is there, it's just a lack of demand that hurts Procera. Hopefully they can remedy that, but we'll see. Titanium and impression scanning aren't going to do it, that's for sure.
Oh, and no more deals on equipment. I got a small discount on NobelGuide, but I think it was because I waited until the end of the quarter to place my order. Those days are long gone I'm afraid.
BruxZir is number one, and e.Max is number two in my lab. Maybe the 3M marketing has had some effect on demand for e.Max? I don't know. Maybe e.Max is being tainted by the CEREC Koolaid drinkers who talk as though it is the second coming?
BruxZir has the buzz right now and the study from University of Alabama will only give it more gas. I'm sure glad I have both. I win either way
"I win either way" famous last words. My guess is that the economy has changed for the long term, next 10 years at least. Our Debt is out of control! The only Dental Labs winning my friend will be in China! Unless Barack acts to protect American jobs with legislation.
Well, I tend to disagree. Chinese labs will have to move to a more productive teat once 3M or Dentsply decide to take the digital impression data, and use it to make a crown from the STL file, in-house using their own materials and selling it directly to the dentist for $39.
There was a time when all hearing aids were made overseas, but that business is back here again. thanks to CAD CAM. The cheap labor advantage is gone. More stringent regulatory controls will also eliminate the counterfeit materials and their inherent cost advantage.
I bought a Cone Beam CT Scanner, opened an Implant Planning Center and hope to spend the next part of my career with primarily computer guided dentistry, and hopefully even selling implants to the dentist (in partnership with one or more manufacturers).
By the time the Chinese can get to that part of the business, I'll have moved to something else. God willing.
Haha and touche'
Yes, I did trash on Procera in the early days. You have to admit it was well deserved at the time. The fit was described as "passive" yet, we both know it was much worse than that.
I have a full compliment of CAD CAM systems, and I really measure their merit on quality and ability to drive sales to my lab. The Quality part is there, it's just a lack of demand that hurts Procera. Hopefully they can remedy that, but we'll see. Titanium and impression scanning aren't going to do it, that's for sure.
Oh, and no more deals on equipment. I got a small discount on NobelGuide, but I think it was because I waited until the end of the quarter to place my order. Those days are long gone I'm afraid.
BruxZir is number one, and e.Max is number two in my lab. Maybe the 3M marketing has had some effect on demand for e.Max? I don't know. Maybe e.Max is being tainted by the CEREC Koolaid drinkers who talk as though it is the second coming?
BruxZir has the buzz right now and the study from University of Alabama will only give it more gas. I'm sure glad I have both. I win either way
Hi Mark,
Didn't expect to find you here. Best day for us last year returning our Cerec unit. About time 3M stepped up to the plate to defend LAVA over the inflated e.Max claims. However their COS impression scanner is a joke. Local fellow here had his remake rate go from 2 to 25% before giving it back to 3M. Boy if you can get that contraption to work taking an impression in the mouth has to be a no brainer in comparison.
Richard D. Cottrell, DDS
Lake Forest, IL
Nice to see you Dr C!!! Actually I have been around here for a while, but only recently decided to start using my name. I was part of the team that did the double blind study with the iTero scanner and in the 1500 or so units we did, we had the digital restoration chosen over the conventional one 70% of the time. Digital impressions have a lot of promise, but the cost of the models and scan fees has to come down. There will be two more out in Chicago and the price is about half. They are open artchitecture.
Mark,
The iTero scanner seems to work reasonably well however the models are expensive is you indicate. However, I'm afraid their camera is presently like trying to parallel park a bus, but that should improve over time. As for accuracy we get gold onlays to fit perfectly using 3M's PVS (there are several others that are equally good) and prior to that hydrocolloid. Since my wife is now replacing all my gold work after ortho I think I would know otherwise. The same goes for our LAVA cores so I would have to see data to support superior fit. Maybe marking margins on a monitor is easier than trimming the actual die, but Mr. O never seem to complain about that either.
Assume you will be in Chicago for the Midwinter - hope to see you there if that is the case,
Richard
After suffering/snoozing thru these last few posts, I am saying something I thought would never happen: I miss Niznick and people pretending to be Niznick!! Where's the entertainment?!
Implantology List is usually boring without Nizplant around as well...............(G)
OK, all Nobel has to offer is the NobelActive fixture in limited sizes - the rest have a flat to flat interface so they are crap. ITI is still trying to push the single stage biologic width nonsense. Anyone who has ever tried to graft around a single stage implant will tell you it is much easier to do around a bone level fixture with a cover screw in place. Few surgeons can consistently place them ideally thought anyone seems to be able to qualify as an ITI fellow. 3i has a silly connection and a questionable surface thought the prosthetic parts are very good. Zimmer? ID's Legacy 3 is probably better. Bicon and Ankylos you have to bury 2.0 mm to get them to work.
Astra makes a much better bone level fixture than all of the above and the prosthetic line is complete. Surface is excellent and size range goes from 3.0 to 5.0 mm and could even be expanded to 5.5 mm if they wanted to add a fourth platform like ID's Legacy 3. Astra makes fixtures as short a 6.0 mm and again they could expand the diameter range offered beyond 4.0 mm if they added a fourth platform. Then you might add that Astra is probably the only company that qualifies as a medical divice manufacture in that they test what they sell prior to turning things over to the marketing department.
After that you just have numerous pretenders like the ones constantly mentioned on this blog......................
So you work for Astra or ID if you can get along with Jerry. But based on the comments posted here many of you have painted yourself into a corner.
Still bored ? ? ?
Blah, Blah, Blah.... Astra has horrible stability and what is hot in this market is high initial stability and immediate provisionals. Regardless patients and restorative dentists care about teeth and the sad truth is most OMFS' don't give a damn about crestal bone loss or the connection. If you haven't figured out yet that the best rep wins, (given that you work for one of the top 5) then you are never going to succeed in this market. We are in sales and if you service your customers and add extra value, more than your competitors, then you will win. Hard work, skills, and time in territory trumps scientific data and connections all day long. Why do you think companies put so many resources towards the sales force. Have some self respect and worth and quit debating who's widget is the best. Or better yet keep debating this while I take your top account to dinner and get in his referral's ears. Good luck.