Levaquin

Quote




If you are a drug rep...you know nothing about sales. I am a top producer in my company. I hire doctors. Levaquin is causing problems in over 2 percent (and rising) of the people taking the drug. Reps are not educated on what they are selling. I KNOW this because my girlfriend is the personal nurse for a doctor. It is all about making your sale. Good sales people are honest. Yes, doctors should take more upon themselves to research these drugs, but YOU the rep should be EDUCATED. You know getting a job in sales requires NOTHING. I have a business and psych degree and could get a job selling Cheerios to doctors offices ( about how they are healthy for you ) and be succesful. It is not rocket science, but what makes the rep Number 1 is that he/she KNOWS their product. Pharm reps SHOULD be required to have some sort of medical degree, not a background in selling vacuum cleaners.
 




I am the person who originally started this thread, and this is my second post; unfortunately the ‘anonymous’ status of all of us makes it fairly difficult to discern this. I do, however, want to thank those of you who came to my side and helped defend my position against the unwarranted attacks that some people chose to respond with (rather than reasoned, logical dialogue, coupled with open-mindedness and maybe even a little empathy I might add).

To set the record straight, I am a male, I was 22 the first time I was given Levaquin, and 23 the next. I spent my 24th birthday sitting on a couch in terrible pain seven months after the last pill was taken. The prescription was written (both times) for bronchitis along with a sinus infection. I have taken many antibiotics over the years for these conditions, as they are recurring, and never have I had anything more than an upset stomach as a side effect. I also was not taking any medications or anything else that is contraindicated for use with Levaquin. Many subsequent tests have shown that nothing else is wrong with me, every doctor/pharmacist/specialist I have spoken with has agreed that Levaquin caused my condition.

I find the level of offense that has been taken to my post to be fairly puzzling, as I did not in any way attack any of you personally. The fact that you took it that way, rather than what my true intent was (which is quite evident in my post) I think speaks, as someone already stated, to your own feelings of being threatened, which I cannot prevent. The simple fact that this drug, which should quite a minor portion of your life, all things considered, is something that you are willing to defend so vigorously and hatefully, is, quite honestly, rather frightening.

All I can say to that is, if I was in your position, selling pharmaceuticals (or any goods for that matter), and people started coming to me complaining that the product I was selling was injurious in any way, I would certainly not respond with vehemence and petty name-calling. I would respond with incredulity at first, to be sure, but would at least listen and try to educate myself about the matter at hand. I would then react with horror that, even if it is only in some small way, I may have inadvertently contributed to someone’s pain.

To clarify my position, I am not, nor was I ever, ‘blasting’ any of you; I merely tried to put myself in your position, and having done that, I came to the conclusion that I would want to know the truth about the products I was promoting.

Do you not even care? Are you completely unwilling to listen to the concerns of your fellow humans, or is your own self-interest that great that telling me to shut up and go away becomes more than just a knee-jerk response and actually epitomizes your position toward those who would disagree with you?

As to banning me, before coming here, I thoroughly read the posting policy on this site, and I have taken care not to violate any of those rules. In fact, this policy clearly states that freedom of speech is held in high regard on this site. Attempting to silence a detractor, it would seem to me, is a greater violation of this ethos than anything I have done. Besides, I’ve noticed, imbedded in multiple other threads on this site, wanton instances of obscenity and name-calling, verbal abuse, etc… While I don’t particularly care about those things (I believe in free speech), I find it fairly odd that you find that okay and are willing to ignore it, but what I’m doing here (merely trying to educate people while sharing my story) is somehow horribly offensive and should be stopped at all cost.

Psychosomatic? The flaw in this particular argument is that the first time I was given this drug, I knew nothing about the side-effects; I never even read the pamphlet they gave me at the pharmacy because I thought it was just like every other antibiotic I’d taken. As I stated in my other post, I began having the more severe side-effects from it after I stopped taking it. A couple of months after taking it, I began waking up with shoulder pain (tendonitis), a few months after that, I partially tore a rotator cuff while emptying a dishwasher. No one ever connected the drug to these problems or any other aspect of my reaction, and the thought never even occurred to me that an antibiotic I’d taken months prior could have been doing it. Physical therapy helped me recover, and I felt great by the time I was prescribed Levaquin again. Again, it was after I started having problems that I began researching Levaquin and connected everything together. Had I not been injured, I never would have known about the possible adverse reactions from fluoroquinolones. Mass hysteria is a fallacious argument, and in no way fits in with the maladies the victims of this report.

I hope you realize that the crux of this argument is basically that I (and we, the victims) read the wrong thing (warnings about these drugs, studies, etc…), and now we are injured because we read it, not because of the drug. The inherent absurdity of this argument (that reading certain words can cause disability) should make the act of refuting it completely unnecessary. Please study some basic human psychology before using such terminology.

Being that I have no medically identifiable disease, there are only two options as to what has caused my condition.
1. Levaquin. The full prescribing information lists basically all of my ailments as possible reactions to this drug. There are countless well-researched studies that back up my claims. Not to mention thousands of anecdotal stories written by victims all detailing the same array of ailments. My problems started after consuming this drug, and every doctor I’ve seen says that Levaquin did this, and is doing this to other people.
2. A Cripple Fairy manifested herself and hit me over the head with her disability wand.

Occam’s Razor (and common sense) decrees that the first option must be true.

Finally, as to the ‘get a life’ comment that someone posted. I had a life, I liked it; Levaquin ruined it. You may not care, but I do; and I will do everything in my power to stop this from needlessly happening to other people. Basic human principles of compassion, empathy, and caring force me to do so. Like I said in my first post, a person can believe what he/she wants to, that is their right. I can say whatever I want to, and according to the policies of this site, that is also my right. Belief, or in this case, disbelief, does not and cannot change the truth. Believe what you want.

Do you really think that, if given the choice, I would be sitting here typing this stuff if I could merely get up and go do something else? I would personally love to turn around and walk across the room (pain-free), go upstairs, go outside and run around freely like a crazed chipmunk, however, the reality that my legs are damaged stops me from doing so. Again, reality trumps belief.

Some arguments here seem to be that I just have some sort of beef with fluoroquinolone antibiotics; that this animosity I have toward them is unfounded and appeared out of nowhere. I have nothing to gain personally by doing this, and the truth of the matter is that it hurts my hands to type so much. Please think about this for a moment, and then from now on use logic if you wish to argue with me. I did not come here looking for an argument and I tried my best in my other post to prevent one by clearly stating the facts of the matter and my goals with what I am doing.

After being hurt, I found the websites devoted to these drugs. I spent hours reading the horror stories of those who have been hurt as bad as or even worse than I have been. How anyone can read those stories, can think of the lives they represent, the daily struggle that the authors are now forced to go through, and react not with anger toward the cause of their suffering, but with anger toward them, is beyond me. To take a dollar sign or a previously held notion and place it in front of and above their lives is the greatest affront to both justice and humanity that I have ever seen.

All I have asked is that you listen, and learn; I have done you no harm and deserve no reproach.
 




Yawn! This really is not the forum for your issue my young friend. Especially with the length you choose to write.

Ockham's razor? (OH, and that is the correct spelling, by the way.) Great reference! Although 99% of the people on this site will have no clue what it means. Even if you explain it!

Good luck, it sounds like you'll need it.
 








Debating the difference between Avelox, Tequin, and Levaquin, is much like debating the differences between arsenic and cyanide. While less poisonous than those, fluoroquinolones are basically all the same as each other, and have the most of the same range of side effects. Slight differences in chemical makeup doesn't change much. Over half of all fluoroquinolones that have been approved have since been banned and/or restricted for killing/maiming too many people.

They all have their body counts and groups of people crying out in severe pain wondering how the medical community could have done this to them.

There are more important things in this world than market share.
 




[ QUOTE ]
Yawn! This really is not the forum for your issue my young friend. Especially with the length you choose to write.

Ockham's razor? (OH, and that is the correct spelling, by the way.) Great reference! Although 99% of the people on this site will have no clue what it means. Even if you explain it!

Good luck, it sounds like you'll need it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Occam is the correct spelling, although Ockam is accepted.

But please explain WHY a forum for Levaquin drug reps is not the place to talk about adverse reactions to Levaquin. That would be a really interesting post. I would not be bored reading that one.
 




[ QUOTE ]
Last resort? Safer antibiotics? What crack are you smoking? Levaquin is extremely safe and very effective. No reason not to use it first line where appropriate.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem with Levaquin, and all FQs, is that they are too effective. They destroy bacteria, sure, and everything else in their path.

Levaquin is a totally made-up chemical concoction, that was shown to kill bacteria. Being a made-up chemical, there was no telling what else it would do to the human body. But hey! We don't need to mention that, do we!!! Call it "EFFECTIVE", because it certainly is. Just don't call it safe.

Do drug reps have a code of ethics?
 




Fact is this guy or "whatever" "it" is, is probably not even a drug rep. If so, then "it" could answer the question. If a rep, probably someone that is pissed because they can't make quota and are having to search for that special vacuum cleaner sales job. That's what happens when you don't know your product. I am the top producer where I work and have been for 5 years. I have been the top producer at every company I have worked in doing sales. Problem is, anyone will hire a sales person. I have two degrees...business and psych, but you don't even need a degree to do sales. I was offered 5 out of 5 jobs with pharma companies right out of college. Oh just fyi, pharma reps, I heard Carmax is hiring!
 




I used to be a rep for Levaquin, and I first of all, just want to say I am so sorry for what has happened to you. I can understand your concerns and just wanted to respond from a reps point of view.

Ruptured tendon is a potential severe side effect of ALL quinolones, not just Levaquin. It is well-known by phycisians and pharma representatives, which is why we are not promoting Levaquin for minor infections. Most physicians will tell you they reserve Levaquin for patients who have recurrent infections (similar to what you mentioned about having recurrent bronchitis or sinusitis). Or they will use it for older people who may have developed resistant pathogens. It should never be given first line, and we definitely are not out there promoting that it should be.

There are rare situations where this happens to patients...and it is very unfortunate. There are hundreds of drugs on the market where there is a small chance (ie: 2%) that severe side effects can occur. Levaquin is a great product and has saved many individual's lives...especially those with pneumonia...and has kept many out of the hospital. Again, I am very sympathetic to your situation...but just wanted to let you know we are not out there trying to get Levaquin to be used first line. My goal is to keep physicians informed about new indications, resistance/susceptibility rates, new studies, and of course side effects. Because Levaquin has been around for so long...99% of physicians are completely aware of the side effects for Levaquin.
 




Thank you for your professional reply. I will have to say my doctor acted puzzled that this was the result of Levaquin. He did say he had heard of these ADR's, but not to this degree. The NP that I saw at the urologist, read from a drug book the Levaquin side effects and said this is not from the medicine. Come to find out the guy was younger than I am. He is probably 28 or 29. He was actually in a rival fraternity where I went to school. He was probably reading the 2001 medical almanac that I saw there in the office I was sitting in.

The actual specialist said it was from "Levaquin poisining". He did say that was the case of all quinilones. You are very right about that.

It is just unfortunate that the docs don't know enough about the drug. I am sure a drug rep with your attitude educates them on this. I can't say so for the other people, or "so called" drug reps on this site.

Anyways, take care and have a good one.
 












AEs are bound to come up when so many patients have used Levaquin. 400M. Just wait until Drs start writing Avelox as often as Levaquin. Wait - that'll never fuckin happen. Nevermind.
 




No matter which advantages levaquin has. It is a big problem, that it is so difficult to be treated for these ADR. And it is difficult to be treated because no one believes you. We need enlightening the interests working against diagnosing drug ADR.
 




[ QUOTE ]
I think we should table this discussion until the last week of April, at that point I'll be glad to moderate from the beach at Cabo! Thanks!

[/ QUOTE ]

Oooh good luck. I heard Cabo is having a huge roach infestation in restaurants and hotels, and 20 people have died of food poisoning there in the last year.
 




[ QUOTE ]
I used to be a rep for Levaquin, and I first of all, just want to say I am so sorry for what has happened to you. I can understand your concerns and just wanted to respond from a reps point of view.

Ruptured tendon is a potential severe side effect of ALL quinolones, not just Levaquin. It is well-known by phycisians and pharma representatives, which is why we are not promoting Levaquin for minor infections. Most physicians will tell you they reserve Levaquin for patients who have recurrent infections (similar to what you mentioned about having recurrent bronchitis or sinusitis). Or they will use it for older people who may have developed resistant pathogens. It should never be given first line, and we definitely are not out there promoting that it should be.

There are rare situations where this happens to patients...and it is very unfortunate. There are hundreds of drugs on the market where there is a small chance (ie: 2%) that severe side effects can occur. Levaquin is a great product and has saved many individual's lives...especially those with pneumonia...and has kept many out of the hospital. Again, I am very sympathetic to your situation...but just wanted to let you know we are not out there trying to get Levaquin to be used first line. My goal is to keep physicians informed about new indications, resistance/susceptibility rates, new studies, and of course side effects. Because Levaquin has been around for so long...99% of physicians are completely aware of the side effects for Levaquin.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for your concern. We all know that tendon rupture is a class effect of all FQs. However OMP makes Levaquin and this is a thread for Levaquin. There are many more devastating ADRs for Levaquin and other FQs in addition to tendon rupture, especially among people who take more than a few pills.

No one with a conscience could promote this drug as anything but a rarely used antibiotic of last resort, only to be used with caution for someone who would die otherwise, and not routinely handed out like candy by ignorant doctors, like it is now. By the way, 2% severe adverse reactions is NOT rare. That's a huge number, and in fact the rate is probably much higher, since many severe reactions are not linked back to the drug since doctors are not willing to admit that a drug they prescribed has done something so bad to a person, and/or the victim goes to a different doctor when the ADRs hit them.

And sociopathy is no more rare than ADRs to FQs, so there are PLENTY of people around willing to lie about these poisons to doctors for the sake of money.
 




The reason that this is not the place to post your issues with Levaquin is because the majority of people that look at this site are in fact brainwashed drug reps.

It's all about brainwashing and marketing tactics set way above our heads, and we just do what we're told.

All I can say, is that life is tough, but look around, and I bet you'll see that someone has it tougher than you. You gotta move past what happened to you and go on with your life. If you think your life's destiny is to stop fluoroquinolone use...then go for it. But remember, these drugs help people way more than they hurt people, and you could find serious side effects with every drug on the market...every single one.
 




[ QUOTE ]
The reason that this is not the place to post your issues with Levaquin is because the majority of people that look at this site are in fact brainwashed drug reps.

It's all about brainwashing and marketing tactics set way above our heads, and we just do what we're told.

All I can say, is that life is tough, but look around, and I bet you'll see that someone has it tougher than you. You gotta move past what happened to you and go on with your life. If you think your life's destiny is to stop fluoroquinolone use...then go for it. But remember, these drugs help people way more than they hurt people, and you could find serious side effects with every drug on the market...every single one.

[/ QUOTE ]


.......and your point is???????
 




Hello again, I too wish to thank that one (former) rep for his reply. However, if 99% of doctors knew of the dangers of fluoroquinolone use, then I wouldn’t have resorted to posting here, nor would thousands of other victims be sharing their stories with the world right now. I commend that person’s reply and the fact that they said that they took the time to properly educate the doctors they personally sold Levaquin too. But again, this is obviously not happening on a large enough scale to prevent massive numbers of severe, avoidable adverse reactions.

According to a study done at University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine, out of a random sample of 100 prescriptions written for fluoroquinolones in hospital emergency rooms, only one of these scripts was written for the right diagnosis with the right dosage and for the correct length of treatment. Obviously, doctors are not being properly educated regarding these drugs.

Where the fault lies with this, I believe, is a non-issue compared with finding the means to end it.

If, as has been stated earlier in this thread, the severe reaction rate to these drugs is somewhere around 2%, and given nearly over 12 million scripts for Levaquin in 2004, and 9 million for Cipro in the same time period, then the total number of severe reaction for these two drugs alone is somewhere in the neighborhood of 420,000 per year. Extrapolate that data over a decade, and the total number affected is in the millions. Many of these people have no idea what is wrong with them, due to the fact that neither they nor their doctors were ever told that side effects can appear months after they stop taking these drugs. Close to 90% of victims are told by the prescribing doctor that their symptoms have nothing to do with the drug they took; many are told to continue taking them even after complaining of muscle, tendon and/or nerve pain.

With the sheer number of prescriptions written, the idea that these drugs are not being handed out unnecessarily is laughable. Also, the idea that ‘millions of people’s lives have been saved’ is also quite facetious, because it can be shown that many of those same lives could have been saved with safer antibiotics. This is not to say that they should be banned, merely restricted to cases where their live-saving abilities will be best served and the benefits will clearly outweigh the severe risks involved.

To the person who told me to ‘get on with my life,’ while good advice in some situations, I find that attitude to be indicative of naivety regarding what it is truly like to be in nearly constant severe pain with limited use of one’s arms and legs. I do however agree with you that there are people in this world who are worse off than I am.

Case in point: a 16 year girl given Levaquin for a sinus infection who collapses at school on the fifth day of treatment. Massive damage ensues, 29 orthopedic casts on her arms and legs are required over the next few years to prevent tendon rupture, and she ends up in a motorized scooter, possibly permanently, with limited use of her arms as well.

Levaquin is now in clinical trials for babies as young as 6 months old.

A previously healthy 57 year old man, given Levaquin, takes one pill. The next nine months of his life are plagued with severe untreatable insomnia resulting in extreme sleep deprivation and pain until, at this time, he cannot take it anymore and chooses to end his own life.

I could go on and on and on and on. I would agree that these people are worse off than I am. That is why I am so adamant in doing this, and will continue to try to the best of my ability to stop this from happening to others.

I should probably stop this before I being boring you all again. Thanks, and again, I do not wish to attack and/or offend anyone here; I merely see a grave injustice happening in the world, and I cannot for the life me sit back and do nothing while people suffer.
 




Top Bottom
Back
Quote