JNJ

Again, Dendreon media and marketing folks do not have anything to do except writing BS. No one says Provenge should not be used. If there are many drugs in similar space, then, what will be used first is one that folks know how it works therefore know when and how to use it.

Provenge is mostly selling because there is so much bribe that has been given to some money hungery physicians who are writing it in most part to make 6-10 K per patients. Again, I say for most part, there are some physicians who are offering Provenge because as of now there is not much in that space and for now is better than nothing but this is changing.

It would be interesting to see how many of current Provenge prescribers will write the therapy if instead of 6-10 K they made 500-1000 dollars.
 






On the subject of overall survival. Interesting quote from Biotech Analyst David Miller yesterday.

"Zytiga couldn't hit survival (overall survival endpoint) with sugar pill as a placebo. $DNDN Provenge did with an active control in 64% of patients. "
 






On the subject of analysts quotes,

August 3, 2011

"There's something wrong here and I don't think anyone really knows exactly what it is," said Cowen and Co analyst Eric Schmidt."

August 4, 2011

"Given management's confident tone just weeks ago, and our own checks, this is a shock," said Christoper Raymond of Robert Baird & Co.

Pertaining to Mr. Schmidt's quote I think the criminal justice system is very close to finding out "exactly what it is."
 






Wrong again, as long as PFS is positive, the need for OS to be shown again is minimal and necessary. Drug development and regulatory 101. Zytiga has already shown OS in the post Taxotere trial, they don't have to show it again as long as they have shown pfswhich is the Co-primary end point.
Dendreon may fool a public and some investors with negative advertisement for Zytiga, MDV 3100 and others but CAN NOT fool the scientific community.
 






That is for the FDA to decide. The FDA might not approve the Zytiga label change for prechemo because they missed a primary end point. If that happened it would greatly diminish the off label use of Zytica pre chemo.

As far as MDV 3100 I think that will be a very effective drug that will go well in combo or sequentially with Provenge.
 






Johnson & Johnson's ($JNJ) cancer drug Zytiga is wooing prospective prostate cancer patients away from Dendreon's ($DNDN) Provenge, analysts say. As Reuters reports, Zytiga's survival stats are about the same as Provenge's, but the J&J drug works faster to relieve cancer-related pain. Plus, it's more convenient for patients to use--and for doctors to prescribe.

In fact, Zytiga's advance has some analysts lowering their peak sales estimates for Provenge. JMP Securities' Charles Duncan told the news service that he's now expecting Provenge to peak no higher than $500 million. "The bloom is off the rose for Provenge because patients are looking for something that can treat them more quickly," Duncan told Reuters.

Provenge treatment requires an upfront extraction of white blood cells used to make individualized doses, and then, those doses have to be administered by IV. Doctors have to pay for the $93,000 treatment and wait for reimbursement from payers. By contrast, Zytiga is a pill that patients can take on their own. Doctors don't have to serve as financial middlemen. And Zytiga treatment runs about half the cost of Provenge, Reuters says.

Memorial Sloan Kettering's Susan Slovin said she thought Provenge would be used, just not as enthusiastically as it was at first. She summed it up for Reuters this way: "[Zytiga] is taking the market by storm; there is a much faster effect with it," Slovin said. "Pain is markedly improved, along with the ability to eat, drink, go out and do what they normally would do. The patient says, 'Look, I really don't see the need to sit here and send my (blood) to wherever...I want to take a pill and go to Florida.' "
 






I have never posted here, but the idiocy of people on this board is astounding. First, to be clear, I do not work for Dendreon, so for any of the replies that follow trying to imply that I do, suck it. Nor am I an investor. I am, however, an experienced industry person.

Now to Zytiga, the failure to show a statistically significant benefit in overall survival is critical. This is the endpoint that is required for approval in metastatic prostate cancer (PCa). Anyone ever hear of Sutent, Avastin, Satraplatin or Atrasentan? All these drugs showed improvements in PFS or TTP, but are not approved for use in PCa. Without the approval, reimbursement for Zytiga is not a given, although one could make a case that insurance carriers may be willing to pay $5K/month rather than $90K upfront. That being said, since Zytiga would be used earlier in this scenario, it is possible that the time on therapy might increase, thus narrowing the cost differential, albeit with no improvement in overall survival.

To be fair, it is possible that this "trend in OS" could change to significant with greater follow-up, as the survival advantage in the post-docetaxel setting increased with additional follow-up. However, unblinding the patients, while ethical, may create a confounding effect, as placebo patients cross-over and hopefully experience the proven benefits of Zytiga later in their disease spectrum.

In response to this brilliant quote:
"Memorial Sloan Kettering's Susan Slovin said she thought Provenge would be used, just not as enthusiastically as it was at first. She summed it up for Reuters this way: "[Zytiga] is taking the market by storm; there is a much faster effect with it," Slovin said. "Pain is markedly improved, along with the ability to eat, drink, go out and do what they normally would do. The patient says, 'Look, I really don't see the need to sit here and send my (blood) to wherever...I want to take a pill and go to Florida.' "
Provenge is meant for use in patients with no cancer-related pain or cancer-related pain that does not require narcotics, thus it does not surprise me that Zytiga may be more effective in reducing pain. It does surprise me that someone from MSK would make a statement like that, however. I would also argue that while having 3 procedures to remove WBC's sounds mildly annoying, treatment lasts roughly only one month. Although I am not a doctor, the literature is replete with data about patient compliance issues associated with oral cancer medications. Despite the fact that Zytiga is given once daily, it does require concomitant use of prednisone twice daily. That is a lot of pills to remember to take, especially over months of time. Thus, the actual benefits from the use of Zytiga are dependent on patient compliance. This is not an issue with Provenge;3 infusions, and you are done. Go to Florida now...

Now, the flipside...Urologists would prefer to use something that does not need to be infused, and they have "control" of the patients. An oral option if available, even if less effective, would be more likely to be used by this surgical audience.

As far as Alpharadin, dumb ass, it is meant for use in patients with symptomatic metastases and most of the patients in its pivotal trial had received prior docetaxel. Not sure how that fits the profile of use before Provenge....

As far as the COGs and appearance of impropriety at the C-Level, no way to deny those concerns. Not sure how appealing Dendreon/Provenge will be as a takeover for both of those reasons. I guess time will tell.
 






I have never posted here, but the idiocy of people on this board is astounding. First, to be clear, I do not work for Dendreon, so for any of the replies that follow trying to imply that I do, suck it. Nor am I an investor. I am, however, an experienced industry person.

I hate to say it sir but anyone who comes here posting with as much acriomony and length as you have and tries to just describe yourself as someone who is just a clearer upper of "misinformation" is a liar.

I trust the guy posting here for months about this over someone who feels the need to say they "never posted here" or "do not work for dendreon."

May I ask what your agenda is? You just like to troll Pharma boards and heroically clear up what you consider misinformation?

Why does your "first post" coincide with news that gave Dendreon about a 10% haircut based on competitor news.

I will give you my take. Last weeks drop is the first really significant drop in Dendreon shares that was not a result of wrongdoing by the EC team and others. Now that Dendreon is close to ruin because of this wrongdoing, any advances and surprises from competition to Provenge many not be the end of Provenge but surely signal the end of Dendreon and any meaningful premium Dendreon might fetch in a takeover.

Dendreon staff can not fight back against malfeasance that already occurred in public forums (their new lawyer has that IMPOSSIBLE job) but you can bet now that they have been told to take the gloves off with respect to competition and will do and say anything to minimize any good news about the competition that is moving fast and furious. They will do it at conferences, they will do it in any way they can including here and stock boards.

With that being said, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and give your claim of having no real agenda behind that post about a 5% chance of being true. No hard feelings though. On the other 95% chance, you are just a person listening to orders trying to earn a living who is probably just another victim of this company's malfeasance. Good luck.
 






I agree with you this board is a joke and pathetic. I came here for some objective information but unfortunately I'm afraid all that's here is a bunch of whiners and what our society deems as losers jerking each other off. Awful!

I have never posted here, but the idiocy of people on this board is astounding. First, to be clear, I do not work for Dendreon, so for any of the replies that follow trying to imply that I do, suck it. Nor am I an investor. I am, however, an experienced industry person.


Now to Zytiga, the failure to show a statistically significant benefit in overall survival is critical. This is the endpoint that is required for approval in metastatic prostate cancer (PCa). Anyone ever hear of Sutent, Avastin, Satraplatin or Atrasentan? All these drugs showed improvements in PFS or TTP, but are not approved for use in PCa. Without the approval, reimbursement for Zytiga is not a given, although one could make a case that insurance carriers may be willing to pay $5K/month rather than $90K upfront. That being said, since Zytiga would be used earlier in this scenario, it is possible that the time on therapy might increase, thus narrowing the cost differential, albeit with no improvement in overall survival.

To be fair, it is possible that this "trend in OS" could change to significant with greater follow-up, as the survival advantage in the post-docetaxel setting increased with additional follow-up. However, unblinding the patients, while ethical, may create a confounding effect, as placebo patients cross-over and hopefully experience the proven benefits of Zytiga later in their disease spectrum.

In response to this brilliant quote:
"Memorial Sloan Kettering's Susan Slovin said she thought Provenge would be used, just not as enthusiastically as it was at first. She summed it up for Reuters this way: "[Zytiga] is taking the market by storm; there is a much faster effect with it," Slovin said. "Pain is markedly improved, along with the ability to eat, drink, go out and do what they normally would do. The patient says, 'Look, I really don't see the need to sit here and send my (blood) to wherever...I want to take a pill and go to Florida.' "
Provenge is meant for use in patients with no cancer-related pain or cancer-related pain that does not require narcotics, thus it does not surprise me that Zytiga may be more effective in reducing pain. It does surprise me that someone from MSK would make a statement like that, however. I would also argue that while having 3 procedures to remove WBC's sounds mildly annoying, treatment lasts roughly only one month. Although I am not a doctor, the literature is replete with data about patient compliance issues associated with oral cancer medications. Despite the fact that Zytiga is given once daily, it does require concomitant use of prednisone twice daily. That is a lot of pills to remember to take, especially over months of time. Thus, the actual benefits from the use of Zytiga are dependent on patient compliance. This is not an issue with Provenge;3 infusions, and you are done. Go to Florida now...

Now, the flipside...Urologists would prefer to use something that does not need to be infused, and they have "control" of the patients. An oral option if available, even if less effective, would be more likely to be used by this surgical audience.

As far as Alpharadin, dumb ass, it is meant for use in patients with symptomatic metastases and most of the patients in its pivotal trial had received prior docetaxel. Not sure how that fits the profile of use before Provenge....

As far as the COGs and appearance of impropriety at the C-Level, no way to deny those concerns. Not sure how appealing Dendreon/Provenge will be as a takeover for both of those reasons. I guess time will tell.
 






I came here for some objective information

You came here for some objective information but you are either the same person who wrote the post you just quoted or you trust the post of someone who clearly has an agenda who is just a puppet listening to his masters.

I would bet you are the same person posting for your "2nd" time. Up that early looking for a response to your "1st" post. Interesting that you completely ignored the post identifying your motives to a t. Take your agenda and your mean disposition elsewhere. People on this bulletin board are not end users of Provenge. Lying here wont help sales. Of course Dendreon knows nothing about how to get sales without improperly incentivizing physicians.
 






Is anything I posted inaccurate? It would be nice if you focused on the points, and not trying to establish some motive, which there is none. I am not saying that Dendreon will not go down the tubes, but if it does, it will not be because of clinical data, maybe marketing and leadership, but not the data.

Rather than duck your questions, I will try to answer your questions/statements in order.

1) Not a liar; I am an industry consultant focused in cancer care. When misinformation is put forth or facts are omitted, I find it offensive since it may impact patients' lives. That is the motivation for posting.
2) As far as the first post coinciding with the recent news, it is true, but I have followed the Dendreon board for awhile, and was finally moved to respond to inaccuracies that I read.
3) I appreciate the 5% benefit of the doubt. I only wish that Zytiga's data had exceeded that level of significance, then none of this debate would be necessary.

Now I would challenge you to be as honest about your intentions, or clinically astute enough to counter the points I made in the previous post. Re-read them, you might find that they are factual, not spin.

I hate to say it sir but anyone who comes here posting with as much acriomony and length as you have and tries to just describe yourself as someone who is just a clearer upper of "misinformation" is a liar.

I trust the guy posting here for months about this over someone who feels the need to say they "never posted here" or "do not work for dendreon."

May I ask what your agenda is? You just like to troll Pharma boards and heroically clear up what you consider misinformation?

Why does your "first post" coincide with news that gave Dendreon about a 10% haircut based on competitor news.

I will give you my take. Last weeks drop is the first really significant drop in Dendreon shares that was not a result of wrongdoing by the EC team and others. Now that Dendreon is close to ruin because of this wrongdoing, any advances and surprises from competition to Provenge many not be the end of Provenge but surely signal the end of Dendreon and any meaningful premium Dendreon might fetch in a takeover.

Dendreon staff can not fight back against malfeasance that already occurred in public forums (their new lawyer has that IMPOSSIBLE job) but you can bet now that they have been told to take the gloves off with respect to competition and will do and say anything to minimize any good news about the competition that is moving fast and furious. They will do it at conferences, they will do it in any way they can including here and stock boards.

With that being said, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and give your claim of having no real agenda behind that post about a 5% chance of being true. No hard feelings though. On the other 95% chance, you are just a person listening to orders trying to earn a living who is probably just another victim of this company's malfeasance. Good luck.
 






No spin and I am not the science guy who originally responded to you. I think he hasnt rebutted you since his first rebuttal.

It's better when people are civil and I'm glad you are more civil in this post.

On the subject of caring about peoples lives, many of us are offended by a company that gives extra financial incentive for doctors to use its therapy and has the leaders of its sales team tell salespeople to "sell the spread" so the company can attempt a rebound from a debacle created by the greed of its management.

I am in full agreement with you on the fact that Provenge should be used in the right circumstances and for the people it is intended for. Morality and ethics and Provenge will only go together when the corporation Dendreon no longer exists.

The science guy can speak much more about this extra incentivizing of physicians to use the therapy for. It has something to do with a registry.

He posts every few days and I'm sure he will follow up.
 






I have a question about CMS.

Why is the taxpayer stuck paying for Provenge when it is very possible that many physicians are only using the medication because of a spread of what one poster says can be up to 6k to 10k for a few hours work?

Does medicare and cms know about this spread? Are they ok with it? Are they ok that doctors might choose this therapy only for this reason? Are they ok with the fact that Dendreon tells its salespeople to "sell the spread"? Wouldnt Medicare and CMS be much more better with a situation where the physician might make 2k and the other 4-8k reduce medicares bill? Is CMS really ok with paying that 93k while the prescribing physician is making 6-10k in some instances as another poster states? As a taxpayer I am not ok with that at all.

I hope that guy comes back and explains this registry thing in detail.
 






All good points and great questions. You may ask the CMS and or Department of Health Office of Inspector General (OIG) to look in to this. It goes faster if you get an attorney and or your Representative or Senator involve in this.
I do believe you are correct to bringing these questions but I am not sure this is a correct place for it.
Good luck
 












Reply #27;

Sounds like a die hard Dendreon fan, maybe one of those money hungry physicians, most likely urologist who has made millions already.

Going back to Zytiga, MDV and others. Again, the question is correct sequence. If I have a choice to give a pill to my patient that he can effort and I know how this pills work vs a therapy such as Provenge that may or may not work, either way, I will not know; then it makes sense to give him the pill.

Argue is to first give Provenge since I may loose a chance of benefiting from it's OS. Well, I am not sure if that is a solid scientific argument unless you show me in a trial that Provenge followed by Abi or MDV is better than Abi or MDV alone. The issue is, you can not, for such trial to be done, you have to enrol many patients in order to show statistically significant OS, since there is no other true markers such as PFS, PSA and etc that can be measured as a response to Provenge.

Oh, yup, let's talk about your immune data that you have been showing and claiming them as a marker. How many patients? Again, non validated, you have to validate all of this, yes, you have to do your home work. Showing data from 20-30 patients and stating that in some of those patients, one of the markers was high at 6 weeks and one of the markers in other patients was high at 12 weeks and so on. This needs to be validated, otherwise is a woodoo science.

And yes, take the Provenge and pray and hope that works, that is a good policy for Dendreon and those so called Doctors who are making 6-10 K from it But not good for the patient and tax payers when there is a minimum $93k price tag attached to it.

I am all for our government pay for the therapy that it works for as long as it works but not to always pay for a therapy that it may work and there is no way of stopping it and save some money if it does not work.

There are simply more choices around today compared to couple of years ago and frankly, choices are more logical and better that Provenge. Provenge came to market a bit late. I do believe research in immune therapy should and will continue. But for now, Provenge is near last in the pack.
 






ASP plus 6% is standard, what is not standard is giving thousands of dollars for Physicians to participate in a Safety registry. What is not standard is asking sales reps to sell the spread and the Registry participation honorarium.

Let's ask CMS, FDa and OIG look in to PROCEED Registry and it's participants. Let's ask FDA, OIG, CMS and other federal agencies to look through physicians records to find out when, why, how they became prescribers and Registry participants. Let's look at who they are and pay a close attention to dates.

In fact Feds know about it already. You are an idiot who believe everyone is stupid.

Go ahead, please bring it to the court of law.
 






The worm is turning..


Last years conventional wisdom:

-Zytica adds around 3 months of medium increase in Survival.

-Provenge adds around 4 months of medium increase in Survival.


The new emerging conventional wisdom will become:

-Zytiga does not increase overall survival per the latest Johnson and Johnson press release for use in pre-chemo.

-Provenge adds around 8 months of medium increase in survival based on the papers recently out from ASCO GU that take into account that Provenge was competing with itself as 64% of placebos crossed over to frozen Provenge.


Stay Tuned..............
 






Perhaps the CMS Inspector General should inspect your mental health or Dendreon should sue you for slander.

Lol, you are a PATHETIC joke Dendreon HQ person.

You want to talk about lawsuits? Dendreon is on the hook for billions. MG personally is going to be fighting the law probably for the next 10 years of his life for damages incurred on good hardworking people. Thats not even including Federal civil suits and very possible criminal charges.
 






Tell us what you are smoking? Provenge, 8 month. In that case Taxotere is 10 month. What are you talking about. FDA look at the Frozen Provenge, go read the FDA opinion. Dude, read Taxotere papers, see what was the OS for men without symptoms, reality check.