Is the DBM model /ride-alongs valid anyone ?

[anonymous]

Serious question.
I’m outside the industry now and believe rep access will continue to be reduced due to a number of factors (market access, consolidation, covid)

Putting that aside for a moment, how is it that Pharma companies can in good conscious send TWO people into an office (rep and manager), when patient time in the office is being held to an absolute minimum AND patient spouses are being told to wait in the car?

Is it time to make a foundational change in pharma sales ?

If you’re hiring good strong reps, measure them on performance only and shed a whole layer.

Serious, thought-out responses only please .

 

[anonymous]

Serious question.
I’m outside the industry now and believe rep access will continue to be reduced due to a number of factors (market access, consolidation, covid)

Putting that aside for a moment, how is it that Pharma companies can in good conscious send TWO people into an office (rep and manager), when patient time in the office is being held to an absolute minimum AND patient spouses are being told to wait in the car?

Is it time to make a foundational change in pharma sales ?

If you’re hiring good strong reps, measure them on performance only and shed a whole layer.

Serious, thought-out responses only please .

I think the reason for manager ride alongs and for that whole unneeded layer of management is for legal and compliance purposes.

 

[anonymous]

Ride along once a quarter - mainly focused on review of business with a couple of appointments with high decile prescribers.

Other than that, you can outsource the gig to India and never notice.

DBMs should have 15-20 reps each.

 

[anonymous]

Ride along once a quarter - mainly focused on review of business with a couple of appointments with high decile prescribers.

Other than that, you can outsource the gig to India and never notice.

DBMs should have 15-20 reps each.

That seems reasonable.
Just have an operations person for administrative stuff, expense report approvals, data dissemination etc.

and yes, once a quarter ride along for business discussion and to see key customers.

 

[anonymous]

Serious question.
I’m outside the industry now and believe rep access will continue to be reduced due to a number of factors (market access, consolidation, covid)

Putting that aside for a moment, how is it that Pharma companies can in good conscious send TWO people into an office (rep and manager), when patient time in the office is being held to an absolute minimum AND patient spouses are being told to wait in the car?

Is it time to make a foundational change in pharma sales ?

If you’re hiring good strong reps, measure them on performance only and shed a whole layer.

Serious, thought-out responses only please .

C'mon... Like it is even remotely a normal day when my manager is with me? LOL

 

[anonymous]

I think the reason for manager ride alongs and for that whole unneeded layer of management is for legal and compliance purposes.

It probably also has something to do with ensuring that you can do your job to a satisfactory level (supervision), just like every other job in the world.

 

[anonymous]

It probably also has something to do with ensuring that you can do your job to a satisfactory level (supervision), just like every other job in the world.

Yep.
I want to see how you speak to a person that you have called on for years, and tell you how to “ask the right questions”.
That way sales will rocket!!!

BTW, I know the office doesn’t like me, and is only tolerating me because of you.


My job is essential, and Novo should make me do 3 ride alongs per rep per month.
Unlike ANY other company in the industry.


Makes Sense To Me.

 

[anonymous]

Yep.
I want to see how you speak to a person that you have called on for years, and tell you how to “ask the right questions”.
That way sales will rocket!!!

BTW, I know the office doesn’t like me, and is only tolerating me because of you.


My job is essential, and Novo should make me do 3 ride alongs per rep per month.
Unlike ANY other company in the industry.


Makes Sense To Me.

Yep. I want to do a job that pays me $125k per year with no accountability or supervision. When my numbers are great, it’s all me. When they aren’t, it was terrible goal setting. I’m very awesome, and all my customers love me, even though I can only see about 7 of them.

I hate it when my manager rides with me b/c I have to work past 2pm, and I am petrified that he will see the charade that my job really is.

Makes sense to me.

 

[anonymous]

Serious question.
I’m outside the industry now and believe rep access will continue to be reduced due to a number of factors (market access, consolidation, covid)

Putting that aside for a moment, how is it that Pharma companies can in good conscious send TWO people into an office (rep and manager), when patient time in the office is being held to an absolute minimum AND patient spouses are being told to wait in the car?

Is it time to make a foundational change in pharma sales ?

If you’re hiring good strong reps, measure them on performance only and shed a whole layer.

Serious, thought-out responses only please .

I am a rep. We need managers, coaching and guidance in some capacity, maybe with more than the amount of reps they currently manage. We are headed there presently, just so you know. I do think we are also headed towards less reps per territory, and while I would love to be my own representative, I think there us some merit to having 2 per territory. ( time off, large territories, better customer service, potential for added products, etc.) I think we are going to see less reps, and more reps per manager very, very soon.

I will also say that our manager is not going into offices in person, but does participate in many of the virtual interactions, which I think is great. Maybe that is just my area, as we have been kind of a hot spot for covid and not many offices are open to reps.

 

[anonymous]

I am a rep. We need managers, coaching and guidance in some capacity, maybe with more than the amount of reps they currently manage. We are headed there presently, just so you know. I do think we are also headed towards less reps per territory, and while I would love to be my own representative, I think there us some merit to having 2 per territory. ( time off, large territories, better customer service, potential for added products, etc.) I think we are going to see less reps, and more reps per manager very, very soon.

I will also say that our manager is not going into offices in person, but does participate in many of the virtual interactions, which I think is great. Maybe that is just my area, as we have been kind of a hot spot for covid and not many offices are open to reps.

DBM here and i agree with you 100%

 

[anonymous]

Serious question.
I’m outside the industry now and believe rep access will continue to be reduced due to a number of factors (market access, consolidation, covid)

Putting that aside for a moment, how is it that Pharma companies can in good conscious send TWO people into an office (rep and manager), when patient time in the office is being held to an absolute minimum AND patient spouses are being told to wait in the car?

Is it time to make a foundational change in pharma sales ?

If you’re hiring good strong reps, measure them on performance only and shed a whole layer.

Serious, thought-out responses only please .

fuck off. find another way to do your research

 

[anonymous]

Ask any other industry rep how often their DBMS are out with them. Wait, better one yet--ask your customers how often they (other companies) bring in their DBMS. Many of mine don't know the AZ manager, or Lilly manager--at all. On multiple occasions they will say "are you in trouble or something? they were just here with your partner now you?"

My manager was out way too much and pre-covid got a few customers irritated and offices dont care who you are(DBM, RBD, Trainer, home office)---they hate the dog and pony show. They are like, no more. So I was stretched then with my DBM ruining access, now with COVID it is worse (one rep/one patient rule) so no one wants to see my DBM. Please, if anyone can offer serious help I am open. I am not a bad rep, I have good numbers, my customers respect me, but a few to many cant take my DBM and my access is being compromised. Also during an engage call did way too much talking and the HCP out of character was like--ok I have to get back thanks talk to you later and ended. DBM has great ideas and I use them but I dont need the babysitting to watch me.

 

[anonymous]

Ask any other industry rep how often their DBMS are out with them. Wait, better one yet--ask your customers how often they (other companies) bring in their DBMS. Many of mine don't know the AZ manager, or Lilly manager--at all. On multiple occasions they will say "are you in trouble or something? they were just here with your partner now you?"

My manager was out way too much and pre-covid got a few customers irritated and offices dont care who you are(DBM, RBD, Trainer, home office)---they hate the dog and pony show. They are like, no more. So I was stretched then with my DBM ruining access, now with COVID it is worse (one rep/one patient rule) so no one wants to see my DBM. Please, if anyone can offer serious help I am open. I am not a bad rep, I have good numbers, my customers respect me, but a few to many cant take my DBM and my access is being compromised. Also during an engage call did way too much talking and the HCP out of character was like--ok I have to get back thanks talk to you later and ended. DBM has great ideas and I use them but I dont need the babysitting to watch me.

Wait, I thought you had amazing relationships, built on years of trust and respect....a few visits from your DBM results in you getting shut out of the office? So weird...sounds like maybe that relationship wasn’t as strong as you thought it was.

And the ride along model at other companies is just like Novo’s. About 100 days I’m the field doing field rides is the industry norm. If docs don’t know the AZ managers, perhaps he’s faking field rides or perhaps he just isn’t memorable. This is just a matter of you wanting to do your thing with no one watching and then we all take your word at it that you were just amazing. It’s part of the job - take it or leave it.

 

[anonymous]

fuck off. find another way to do your research

OP here.
Wow, sure struck a chord with you huh ?
We all can learn from other people and industries. There are some good insights here, ones that Brian and Doug should consider to some extent.
Then, there’s your ‘fuck off’ comment. Ya gotta look in the mirror on that one little boy. What the fuck is your problem.

 

[anonymous]

Wait, I thought you had amazing relationships, built on years of trust and respect....a few visits from your DBM results in you getting shut out of the office? So weird...sounds like maybe that relationship wasn’t as strong as you thought it was.

And the ride along model at other companies is just like Novo’s. About 100 days I’m the field doing field rides is the industry norm. If docs don’t know the AZ managers, perhaps he’s faking field rides or perhaps he just isn’t memorable. This is just a matter of you wanting to do your thing with no one watching and then we all take your word at it that you were just amazing. It’s part of the job - take it or leave it.

-But not one of those companies has 9 or less reps under them as direct reports.
-Also, NNI in certain areas requires DBMs to conduct 2 days per ridealong with reps.

If a DBM has 9 reps (3territories) that puts the DBM in each territory 6 days per month out of roughly 20 working days (really 16 because Fri are “office days” for DBMs)
WTH do u need to “see” that much?

I agree that reps should be held accountable and DBMs should do ridealongs, but if you can seriously think this isn’t pissing off offices
(regardless of reps relationships) you are clueless.

If a territory is performing poorly, increase the DBM activity...but standard scheduling no matter how the territory is performing is terrible judgement.

Reps are trying to tell DBMs that the feedback is not positive from most offices, and HCPs are making jokes of Novo DBM activity.

My DBM is pretty good about dealing with offices. for those who have aggressive DBMs, best of luck to you.

 

[anonymous]

It’s not just your field rides with a rep that are the problem. It’s the field rides with the 2 other reps in the territory. This means that office is seeing the DBM far more than any rep. Believe me, that gets old fast. Then, consider the reps from other companies in the same situation. Manager with rep week one. Manager with another rep in same office next week. Wash, rinse, repeat. Multiply this by the number of drug companies calling on that office and you get DBM overload. I’ve seen this happen with a doc who was a friend of mine - he tolerated this dog and pony show until one manager got in his face and said (in so many words) that he was practicing bad medicine if he didn’t Rx his drug. He then told the office manager no more reps.

 

[anonymous]

It really amazes me that every single POA or National Conf Call, the “evolving of practicing medicine & the industry” is always the title of some PowerPoint

Then, NNI continues with and intensifies this DBM activity....

I don’t want to see anyone lose their job, but maybe this will give more reps under fewer DBMs and by just the numbers, this activity will tone down?

 

[anonymous]

-But not one of those companies has 9 or less reps under them as direct reports.
-Also, NNI in certain areas requires DBMs to conduct 2 days per ridealong with reps.

If a DBM has 9 reps (3territories) that puts the DBM in each territory 6 days per month out of roughly 20 working days (really 16 because Fri are “office days” for DBMs)
WTH do u need to “see” that much?

I agree that reps should be held accountable and DBMs should do ridealongs, but if you can seriously think this isn’t pissing off offices
(regardless of reps relationships) you are clueless.

If a territory is performing poorly, increase the DBM activity...but standard scheduling no matter how the territory is performing is terrible judgement.

Reps are trying to tell DBMs that the feedback is not positive from most offices, and HCPs are making jokes of Novo DBM activity.

My DBM is pretty good about dealing with offices. for those who have aggressive DBMs, best of luck to you.

Agree. It is over the top. Too many DBM visits per territory. It is a numbers game, we all have to do jobs, but like poster said--it is too frequent because of number of reps. It is a different covid world now--we have had high numbers in my area, and offices are still fearful. My DBM has helped me more in situations over the phone and been a good sounding board, I am sick to lose my DBM if it happens. But totally has pushed peoples buttons regardless of if they are my buddies or not and lost access because of aggressiveness.

 

[anonymous]

Agree. It is over the top. Too many DBM visits per territory. It is a numbers game, we all have to do jobs, but like poster said--it is too frequent because of number of reps. It is a different covid world now--we have had high numbers in my area, and offices are still fearful. My DBM has helped me more in situations over the phone and been a good sounding board, I am sick to lose my DBM if it happens. But totally has pushed peoples buttons regardless of if they are my buddies or not and lost access because of aggressiveness.

These are very good thoughts.
Let’s hope as we make changes this Fall, this could be one of them.
Positive thread for the most part

 

[anonymous]

These are very good thoughts.
Let’s hope as we make changes this Fall, this could be one of them.
Positive thread for the most part

Well, when folks get cut and there are fewer reps per territory, some of this will take care of itself.