Income Potential ?? Clinical Sales Representative: Ethicon Products

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Anonymous said:
Oh, my God. Some of us on the West Coast just got wind of the 2011 comp plan. It's pretty bad. Almost all categories pay significantly less and the targets are higher. There will be an exodus.
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We just got the preliminary payplan on the East Coast as well. I can't imagine any decent rep staying with this plan. I can't believe it's real but my manager confirmed it. At 2011 plan you will make close to half as you would in 2010. I say YOU because there's no way I'll still be with Ethicon. I guess they realize they can bring in new reps as quickly as they leave since it is Johnson and Johnson.

I guess in 2011 the answer to OP will be 60 to 80 total comp. 125 if you are one of the top 5 reps in the nation.
 






That is such a shame. Our customers already look at this position as a revolving door. Cutting comp will only make things worse. This does not fit with the Ethicon growth strategy either. Experienced reps would have a much easier time pushing new products through VAC's. New reps will spend half a year just trying to figure out who to talk to.
 






To 1st poster and everyone-average commision-75k-this is wrong. 35 reps??? well, 22 below 75k and 14 below 58k equals 36 reps. so all 36 reps according to post number 1 made below 75k in commision. Ethicon lies about comp-If one rep blew it out and that skews the average as well.
Get your head on straight people-with salary and commision you will be lucky to make 75-85k per year period!!!!!
 






This job is a joke to begin with and everyone is now trying to leave. Comp plan Is laughable for 2011 with upper management viewing the CSR role not deserving anything close to six figure potential.
 






Is the second poster's detailed analysis an appropriate view of what to expect in compensation as a CSR in Ethicon Products for 2011? What can the average rep and top 10-15% of reps expect to make in total compensation?
 






No, the 2nd post is outdated because it is now too generous of a description of both the income potential and the duties associated with being a CSR. You will defend FAR MORE and make FAR LESS. In a corporate email, Ethicon has stated that its growth businesses are Biosurgery, Mentor, and Acclarent. This is where the comp/marketing/product development resources are now going. Not all, but most, and their comp plans and general culture are all far better than EP, EES, and/or EWHU.

Specifically for the EP CSR role, the 2011 plan represents about a 40% pay cut at plan from previous years. Moreover, the plan is far harder to achieve and contains a couple fantasy categories, such as the monstrous Total Suture increase and the Gut to Syn Abs conversion. These are both joke categories and will probably pay out for only 10% of CSR's. These are now not controversial points and even the most line-toting DM's admit these. Bottom line: far more work for FAR less pay.

All this is not even counting the recent insult of the 60% quota increase on Physiomesh for a pittance of a commission increase--15% to 16%, and 22% to 23%--in order to make up for lost income potential for (recalled) SecureStrap. This is such a slap in the face.

If you don't understand the comp plan, you need to. If you are capable of doing it, forecast your likely sales increases for each comp category at each account, and get a rough total of the likely increases for your territory. Then, ask a rep who understands the plan or your DM to help you plug in the numbers to get a rough forecast of your comp dollars for the year. If you are honest about your assessment and have a territory with growth potential that is NOT phenomenal, you will be lucky to make above 90-100K. If you've blown out DB or mesh in the past, or especially if you have serious threats, you are really screwed. Hint: about 60% of the sales force is really screwed.

This is all such a shame compared to what it used to be like as a CSR.
 






Anonymous said:
No, the 2nd post is outdated because it is now too generous of a description of both the income potential and the duties associated with being a CSR. You will defend FAR MORE and make FAR LESS. In a corporate email, Ethicon has stated that its growth businesses are Biosurgery, Mentor, and Acclarent. This is where the comp/marketing/product development resources are now going. Not all, but most, and their comp plans and general culture are all far better than EP, EES, and/or EWHU.

Specifically for the EP CSR role, the 2011 plan represents about a 40% pay cut at plan from previous years. Moreover, the plan is far harder to achieve and contains a couple fantasy categories, such as the monstrous Total Suture increase and the Gut to Syn Abs conversion. These are both joke categories and will probably pay out for only 10% of CSR's. These are now not controversial points and even the most line-toting DM's admit these. Bottom line: far more work for FAR less pay.

All this is not even counting the recent insult of the 60% quota increase on Physiomesh for a pittance of a commission increase--15% to 16%, and 22% to 23%--in order to make up for lost income potential for (recalled) SecureStrap. This is such a slap in the face.

If you don't understand the comp plan, you need to. If you are capable of doing it, forecast your likely sales increases for each comp category at each account, and get a rough total of the likely increases for your territory. Then, ask a rep who understands the plan or your DM to help you plug in the numbers to get a rough forecast of your comp dollars for the year. If you are honest about your assessment and have a territory with growth potential that is NOT phenomenal, you will be lucky to make above 90-100K. If you've blown out DB or mesh in the past, or especially if you have serious threats, you are really screwed. Hint: about 60% of the sales force is really screwed.

This is all such a shame compared to what it used to be like as a CSR.
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This post is dead on and not just a disgruntled rep's rambling. But I think it's more than 60% of the sales force that will be screwed. There are three types of reps now. Those who understand the pay plan. This group is pissed and looking eslewhere. Those who just started and don't understand what they are up against or can afford to live on 80K for the experience. And last, those who just aren't analytical enough to understand the pay plan. This group is very small this year since the plan is very obviously poor. Many CSR's are looking for employment in other JnJ companies as well as outside the company. Those who would have liked to stay within the group of JnJ companies have expanded searches outside the company because they know they simply can not make enough in 2011 to survive. This is now a company for moms who need plenty of time for the kids and some extra spending money. Or the young rep who wants to crack into device then move-on. It is no longer a smart move for someone in Pharma wanting to get into device. It's not worth the pay cut for that person. An excellent rep who I trained with just left after two years and went back to Pharma because of the new pay plan. If you don't need to make 100K plus then it can be a great place to work. Car, Insurance, gas, expenses, and some spending money to upgrade the powder room. Don't expect to be the income in the household covering the mortgage though.
 


















Hands down DB is ten times a better product. One can physically see the difference. The challenge is materials management thinks all TSAs are the same. Your surgeons will need to go to bat for this one.
 






Anonymous said:
Hands down DB is ten times a better product. One can physically see the difference. The challenge is materials management thinks all TSAs are the same. Your surgeons will need to go to bat for this one.
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I agree with the above qoute.

First your surgeons need to be educated on the differnces. The comparison chart on Ethicon Website helps. They need to know that the liquigarbage will not even be around for 24 hours. Get some samples to put on key surgeons arms. Your fight will be won at that point. Most of it will flake of before the work day is over. It's an awesome sight.

But if you lose a single account to Histoacryl, Liquiband, etc., get a new job since Dermabond is the only category with ok payout this year.

If you win the battle, congratulations now you get to tell them about the $100/ea. Prineo
 






Wow this post scared the crap out of me! 1 - Because there are honest, informative answers without a bunch of bull sh** to weed through and 2 - because I am looking at a hernia mesh position. I am currently coming from spine hardware. It was my first med device job and I have been there for 3 years. I am not with the big 3 so my territory was seriously underperforming when I got there. I have worked my ass off to grow business and convert doctors. I am at a very frustrating point because I feel like I have worked my territory to the max. I am up against medtronic and depuy and nobody cares about a pedicle screw. Each case I get makes a huge difference to me since I am not standing in the or all day running multiple rooms. I am 100% commission and pay all my gas, expenses etc. To me this looked like a good opportunity to get ahead since I wouldn't be responsible for the expenses and it offers a base. I do need my income to pay my mortgage and other expenses. I need to be making 140,000/yr minimum for the move to even make sense. I am not the sole provider but damn near close. Making the wrong decision is detrimental to me because I have an 18 month old to worry about and I can't afford to go backwards. Any advice as to your thoughts to help me way this out would be great....
 






I'm interviewing for a position. How fair is the compensation? Are certain geographies better than others? This territory recently lost an account. Can you still make money?
 












Fact: Good hernia reps are making $$ (250+ total comp), but CSR's got the high hard one this year. If you can get a position as a Full Line rep, do it, as you have the best of both worlds. With a new VP of sales, I am hearing from all angles that next years comp plan will be more fair and aggressive. This is a good company--many CSR's would disagree and have a good story to tell-- but you have to be able to sell clinically, period. Many good new products and a strong pipeline in both suture and hernia, but if you want to get into some real $$ try to get into the hernia division. I am not just drinking the juice here, I know there are a lot of suture reps that have been here a while that are very upset. If you are looking at a position here just do the homework, ask the right questions, and decide if this is the fit for you.
 






Anonymous said:
Fact: Good hernia reps are making $$ (250+ total comp), but CSR's got the high hard one this year. If you can get a position as a Full Line rep, do it, as you have the best of both worlds. With a new VP of sales, I am hearing from all angles that next years comp plan will be more fair and aggressive. This is a good company--many CSR's would disagree and have a good story to tell-- but you have to be able to sell clinically, period. Many good new products and a strong pipeline in both suture and hernia, but if you want to get into some real $$ try to get into the hernia division. I am not just drinking the juice here, I know there are a lot of suture reps that have been here a while that are very upset. If you are looking at a position here just do the homework, ask the right questions, and decide if this is the fit for you.
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total crap. this is obviously a recruiter or manager on here. one rep in the company made this last and he has been here for over 6 years. maybe $150k tops if you have some good gpo's
 






Anonymous said:
total crap. this is obviously a recruiter or manager on here. one rep in the company made this last and he has been here for over 6 years. maybe $150k tops if you have some good gpo's
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You're kidding right? I'm bored and the fam is with the inlaws so I will type ths out. I am neither a recruiter nor manager and have run the #'s for the top producing territories of last year and this year through June--if you are a rep here, you know you can do this in about 10 min--and have seen people can make $$. I am a relatively new hernia rep (2+) but a former CSR (another 3+) and made a comfortable 150 last year and plan to make minimum 250 total comp in 2011. I will say it once more in case the last poster didn't hear.....do your homework if you are looking at a job here. Right now, this company pays on growth and growth and growth........If you have business to convert and can actuallty sell--I mean convert the hospital, not just a doc here and there--you can clean up. Again, I have heard from reliable resources that the comp plan will feature more payout from $1 next year to help maintain business and keep reps from jumping ship. You will also soon see changes to this years comp plan for CSR's due to the fact that currently they could make more $$ behind the counter at their local gas station. Here's the deal, this is hernia mesh and is arguably the most competitive slot in device. Everyone has a mesh, biologic, tacker etc.... and everyone's is better than everyone elses. If you want to put your skills to the test then do the research, sign up, and see if you can perform. If you can succeed in this marketplace then you can make it anywhere. The reason I chose JNJ is that they love to cross-pollinate between the 200+operating companies and do reward top performers. Thoughts?
 






First off, lots of great info here and I want to thank those that have provided helpful information. Most posts suggest finding a CSR position with low market share, and I'm currently looking at a CSR position that already has 80-90% of the market share. This to me sounds more like a customer service position, than a sales position. Does anyone know more about the 2012 pay plan, and how it relates to retaining current volume?
 






We will find out the 2012 comp plan sometime in December. We have always been paid on growth and I can not imagine that it will be much different next year. Good luck with your decision
 






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