In the News....













Scarlett said:
Honestly, human and world conditions are deteriorating beyond surreal now. This woman should be given the most inhumane of treatments in a jail:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110514...lYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcmllcwRzbGsDanVyeWNvbnZpY3Rz

Any lawyer who claims insanity for her should be disbarred. She was drunk, sane and cruel. That poor baby.
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Yes, this is a very sad story, but why should anyone be surprised? It is the natural outgrowth of devaluing life in our society.

These types of things will only become more commonplace and instead of calling it what it is, there will be more calls for gobblement intervention.
 






This absolutely sickened me when it hit the news the first time -- I can't even read the article.
 






I Love America said:
Yes, this is a very sad story, but why should anyone be surprised? It is the natural outgrowth of devaluing life in our society.

These types of things will only become more commonplace and instead of calling it what it is, there will be more calls for gobblement intervention.
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Yep, this is what you get when you go around espousing the attitude that "abortion should be as easy as buying a gun". The devaluing of human life has predictable and very sad consequences.
 






This is the logical conclusion of the welfare state that we live in. I will bet that the dumb cunt quit school, got knocked up at 14, and the good taxpayers of Ohio have been footing the bill since. Dayton is one of the biggest shitholes in this country. If she were executed for this, I'd consider it a mercy-killing.
 


















With what's been said, I'm not even going to read the article but I disagree with the idea that abortion (in general) devalues life. If the collection of cells and DNA that will someday support a life doesn't stand a good chance of being a productive life, instead being born (which is when a fetus becomes a life) is diverted, much agony, misery and misspent tax money is avoided. This actually improves and adds overall value to life.

"Love is but a song we sing, fear's the way we die."
 






Vagitarian said:
With what's been said, I'm not even going to read the article but I disagree with the idea that abortion (in general) devalues life. If the collection of cells and DNA that will someday support a life doesn't stand a good chance of being a productive life, instead being born (which is when a fetus becomes a life) is diverted, much agony, misery and misspent tax money is avoided. This actually improves and adds overall value to life.

"Love is but a song we sing, fear's the way we die."
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Abortion devalues life. That's just the way it is. You can try to spin it in any biologically-denying way you want. It is HUMAN LIFE. It is human. It is alive. When you destroy human life for anything other than to preserve the life of the mother, it devalues life. Look at our society before abortion was legal nationally and after. Big change!

Much agony, misery and misspent tax money could be avoided if people pursued strict monogamy. Remember this? Pssst, its STILL TRUE!


"In particular, cultures that adopt what Unwin dubbed "absolute monogamy" proved to be the most vigorous, economically productive, artistically creative, scientifically innovative and geographically expansive societies on earth. Absolute monogamy is a very strict moral code. Under absolute monogamy, sex can occur only within one-man/one-woman marriage. Premarital and extramarital sex are not tolerated and divocre is prohibited."

"....his research revealed - that absolute monogamy, the key to societal health, is deeply consistent with the sexual regulations laid out in the Bible....."
Brian Fitzpatrick
 






The baby in this case was 'fried'.
Imagine the suffering this innocent child went through...why??? Some ignorant, insensitive, sick, abusive b____ didn't give a damn for human life.

How do we prevent things like this? I say show that the consequences will be severe. BTW...I'm a true advocate for the death penalty, however, they need to do away with death row. Someone like this needs to go from verdict to injection. No lapse in time.
 






Scarlett said:
The baby in this case was 'fried'.
Imagine the suffering this innocent child went through...why??? Some ignorant, insensitive, sick, abusive b____ didn't give a damn for human life.

How do we prevent things like this? I say show that the consequences will be severe. BTW...I'm a true advocate for the death penalty, however, they need to do away with death row. Someone like this needs to go from verdict to injection. No lapse in time.
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I'm in full agreement with you on the death penalty, especially in clear cut cases. In other cases, sadly a practical measure of allowing 1 to 3 years for appeals and make sure the conviction is just is only prudent. But this staying on death row for 10 or 20 years or more is absurd.
 






Scarlett said:
The baby in this case was 'fried'.
Imagine the suffering this innocent child went through...why??? Some ignorant, insensitive, sick, abusive b____ didn't give a damn for human life.

How do we prevent things like this? I say show that the consequences will be severe. BTW...I'm a true advocate for the death penalty, however, they need to do away with death row. Someone like this needs to go from verdict to injection. No lapse in time.
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Exactly ! Shoot the motherfucker up right away, dust him and yank the kids who have no chance for a viable life and are only born to satisfy some religious whacko's curiosity and pseudo-conscience.

Support the death penalty and abortion now!
 






Vagitarian said:
Exactly ! Shoot the motherfucker up right away, dust him and yank the kids who have no chance for a viable life and are only born to satisfy some religious whacko's curiosity and pseudo-conscience.

Support the death penalty and abortion now!
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You are one confused individual. The rational approach is to protect innocent human life, in and outside the womb. Do you have any idea of the number of outstanding individuals grew up in orphanages? Abortion is a selfish and easy way out, but hey, that's you.
 
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Wow, I see this has turned into another swinging contest. I am a little concerned that this woman was drunk and that one of her other children did it as per both articles. The judge refused to hear the testimony. This IS a perfect example of why abortion should not only be legal but there should be mandatory birth control for anyone on welfare. If an impoverished woman has one child out of wedlock, she is more likely to have two or more all with different fathers and stay in poverty than if she had an abortion, FACT! Poverty breeds crime and many social ills. Young girls who get an abortion are significantly more likely to NOT make the same mistake again and to continue on with their education as well as delay another child until they are married, FACT!

There is absolutely no scientific evidence that legalized abortion has devalued society. That is an argument held only by the extreme Christian right with no actual proof. What about the Crusades? What about the Civil War? What about the Middle Ages. People and society were brutal and there was no abortion then. There are an abundance of examples before abortion was legal on social issues and crime as well as suicide being more prevalent. Abortion is NOT an option in the middle east and they behave like animals!! Our society is actually better now than it has been in a long time. I don't think abortion plays any role in any of it. Zero! It is a medical procedure to be kept between a woman and her doctor.

The problem is the economy and how 80 percent of the wealth in the country is now owned by 10 percent of the people. Mostly those overpaid CEOs and many of our government officials. There is no middle class and that was what made this nation strong, independent and innovative. The economic crisis is crushing and sure to increase crime, stress and mental illness.

P.S. When you see a women commit a violent crime against her children, you are sure to find serious mental illness or no present husband/father or a man who is absolutely a control freak abuser. It would not surprise me to find the woman in this story has several kids out of wedlock all with different fathers, an abusive boyfriend, lives on welfare, has a history of mental breakdowns and too many kids to support. It could be that while she was drunk/high, one of her other small children did this and she would rather face the death penalty than tell. Little kids do like to put stuff in the microwave. I personally find it almost impossible to fathom that a mother would do this.
 
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It's interesting that some of us support abortion and the death penalty, some are against both and some support the death penalty but not abortion. I'm not in a swinging contest anymore than anyone else. We live in an orderly society where the majority rules. I see irony in states that allow abortion but not the death penalty ut my personal fe3eling is that the remedy is to get on with the capital punishment and keep the freedom of choice.

The divide stems from whether or not you believe the fetus is part of the mother or a separate, sustainable entity. I believe the first of those two choices but willing to go along with what the majority rules.

We're in one of those revolving door discussions where all we're doing is going round and round so I'm gonna bail to the next topic. Happy Sunday everybody - summer's almost here.
 
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Man For All Seasons said:
Abortion devalues life. That's just the way it is. You can try to spin it in any biologically-denying way you want. It is HUMAN LIFE. It is human. It is alive. When you destroy human life for anything other than to preserve the life of the mother, it devalues life. Look at our society before abortion was legal nationally and after. Big change!

Much agony, misery and misspent tax money could be avoided if people pursued strict monogamy. Remember this? Pssst, its STILL TRUE!


"In particular, cultures that adopt what Unwin dubbed "absolute monogamy" proved to be the most vigorous, economically productive, artistically creative, scientifically innovative and geographically expansive societies on earth. Absolute monogamy is a very strict moral code. Under absolute monogamy, sex can occur only within one-man/one-woman marriage. Premarital and extramarital sex are not tolerated and divocre is prohibited."

"....his research revealed - that absolute monogamy, the key to societal health, is deeply consistent with the sexual regulations laid out in the Bible....."
Brian Fitzpatrick
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I notice you took my suggestion, quit pissing and moaning about the sig line and typed one out as part of your post. Good boy! You're catching on to my way of thinking. :cool:
 






Well, Vag, there are 1 and 2 lb fetuses born that survive, granted often with horrible health problems for life. So, it is really tough to say where to draw the line anymore. I think that alone has made abortion less popular. Let's face it. It is NOT birth control. Anyone going for an abortion receives extensive counseling and is actually pushed to consider other options unless the abortion is for health reasons. Mental health is also a health reason.

I am just sick that every fucking thread goes to this heated debate. I did write a book called "The no win debate" on the subject about 17 years ago. I turned it into articles rather than publish it because I felt it too inflammatory and I did want rocks coming through my front window or someone killing my cats or coming after my children. The articles actually kept a clinic open in my town and kept two hospital systems from merging: one Catholic and one not. That would have removed not just abortion services but hospital birth control and tubals from the city.

I feel very strongly about the freedom of choice before the sixth week. After that, I'm not convinced that abortion is as viable an option. Just like at some point, I believe we all have the right to take some medication to end our suffering when life has no quality anymore. It is always interesting that males seem to feel the strongest about the abortion topic. Yet, for most of the young women at an abortion clinic, there is no father in the picture and if there is one, he is all for getting rid of a burden he might have to support. All this time, the right wingers attack the women. Why not go after fatherlessness? Put yourself on a list to adopt! However, I also think it is totally nutty to go through invitro fertilization and have a litter. That is just sick. Yet, America is spellbound by Kate Plus 8: A show that makes me want to vomit. It is curious to me that you can have a poor black women with eight kids and no one gives a shit. But make her an attractive white women and she gets her own TV show.

Feebs: I am sorry but a truck that has dead fetuses on it is absolutely disgusting. That would be like posting a billboard with blood and guts from GI surgery or what not. Surgical procedures do frighten and can damage children who view them. This goes too far and should be banned. It would be different if it was a truck with posters promoting life and showing just fetal development. Perhaps I read your post wrong. P.S. the fetus poster that the prolife movement has everywhere is actually from China and is a late term abortion. Less than 2 (maybe 4) percent of abortions in the U.S. are even past the first trimester. Any late term abortions performed here in the U.S. are to save the mother or extreme medical circumstances. There is not a single clinic that will perform this procedure without a medical mandate. The poster was purely chosen for its "shock" value and does not reflect anything factual here in the U.S. This is also not a tactic that I find civil. It is done purely to get a rise out of people = not cool.
 
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I was not talking about China either. The images used here in America come from procedures in China or historic back-alley procedures. If you read the laws on abortion, you will see that even with it being legal, there are many restrictions in the U.S. You cannot possibly buy into those images as being anything but inflammatory? Number one: most abortions (70 percent) are before the 6th week. The tissue is a white blob that looks like a wad of gum. There is almost no blood. There are certainly no "body parts". Number two: the images on those trucks are primarily LATE term abortions which are NOT done in this country unless extreme medical necessity. Images like these prevent people from making decisions because they do nothing but use fear tactics. I find it deplorable and, if one came to my town, I would go out of my way to file a lawsuit against them. This is no different than showing images of child porn in hopes of preventing it. Showing images of war never stopped it. Showing images of animal abuse does not stop it. Abortion is legal. Destorting the perception of a legal surgical proceedural is probably a form of interference with the surgeon's or clinic's economic advantage. It could also be misleading. This would be like being against plastic surgery and finding a bunch of surgical mistakes to highlight your cause! I am sorry but I think it is time for the quiet majority that sits and tolerates prolife hate to be equally as pushy and perhaps start running a good offense themselves.

The reason this is a no win debate is that even when abortion was illegal approximately 1.2 million were performed annually.
 
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