Good Leaders - Bad Leaders (No DM's)

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Anonymous said:
There are plenty of good women working at Forest. Gotta love Stu Ragins. Unfortunately some of the worst leaders in marketing happen to be women. One is N Barnett. Two others are Hochberg and P Barnett. Both Barnetts are little Elaine wanna-bes. EH - hope you get well soon and come back a little nicer. Doubt it, but we can hope. And P Barnett - has she done anything since she got here other than offend people? She is so rude it's amazing. By the way, there are plenty of poor male leaders, too.
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Seriously??!! Stu Regins??!! The only department in the entire company that no one holds accountable. We survive as SALES PEOPLE on knowing information and exceeding our goals. While MC segmenting is good, the geniuses in sales admin can't develop a better formula for evaluating data and the company won't buy (read 'spend') for more current data. Instead we go off 2 yr old data that has NO bearing on the current marketplace, therefore, we continue to use a business model that started 20 years ago. She has no balls or know how to update and change it to meet current demand. NIce woman, wrong position. IMHO
 






Anonymous said:
Agreed. I am in device sales, and it is respectable, challenging, and unlike pharma you do sell, and you are an actual resource for the Dr. When I go into the OR with scrubs on, and I am standing next to the surgeon it is all business, and I better know what I am doing. The pharma industry is a complete unadulterated joke. From the weak corporate ass kissing regional managers to the poor sales reps who entered the business without a real idea what they were in for. If you peruse Medreps.Com or other employment boards you see the same thing over and over "Please, No Pharma Reps." That is the sad reality. You pharma reps are stuck where you are. Its miserable where you are, and you have no other place to go. Suit wearing, report writing, lunch providing, sample droppers. It shouldn't even be called a " sales" job. There is no sales involved. The worse part of being a pharma rep is the degrading way staff and doctors treat you. That in itself was enough for me to get out. No one has the right to treat me with such disrespect and contempt. Anyone who posts here defending this horrible unethical industry needs to understand you are brainwashed.
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WHo the fuck are mr device sales man, here to tell us how good you are , you cock sucker.
Why are you posting on our board if you are "so successful"? you arrogant piece of shit. By the way moron, this health care bill is going to hit you and us right between the eyes , and with all the new restrictions of treatment of 65 and above and the tax you will need to pay the govt, you are screwed. YOu will not make anywhere near the money you make now , and maybe then you will understand that you are just another rep selling, not some elitest "saleman selling devices"
 






While there is truth that the healthcare bill will likely pinch our earnings, if you make 200k vs 100k, the cut will still make the divide between Forest and device large. And the job activity will always be different. This bill will hit both pharma and device. you idiots who voted for hope and change essentially sealed the change of the medical field forever. well done.
This bill is another step in the deterioration of the pharma business model. It's been sliding for years. It's only going to get worse.
At this point, be thankful we have jobs, but this pharma model is dying.
 






I would have to agree with most of what I have read on this board. Pharma business is dying if not already dead. The new healthcare bill will effect both pharma and med devices for the negative and I still work for Forest and do not believe that this is real sales. It is mostly marketing. That being said. For the above posters in med sales: it obviously is not impossible to get into medical sales with pharma experience - you both seem to have done it or why else would you be on this board. Some companies will hold this against you inevitably but there are companies out there who are just looking for honest hard working individuals. Just because you work for Forest does not mean you are not good at sales - it just means you are not currently practicing real sales.
 






25 makes a good point. best way in is to know someone or right place/right time. That is essentially someone standing up for you and saying "this person isn't a typical pharma loser/lazy/slug". Know someone who would stake their reputation on your work ethic and abilities? If so, go for it.
Device isn't for geniuses, but those who make the jump can often do a better job of "laddering" up and/or selling themselves as not being typical lazy slugs.
No matter how much you say you're different, there has to be some meat behind it or else it's signatures and feed the cows for life.
 






Anonymous said:
Agreed. I am in device sales, and it is respectable, challenging, and unlike pharma you do sell, and you are an actual resource for the Dr. When I go into the OR with scrubs on, and I am standing next to the surgeon it is all business, and I better know what I am doing. The pharma industry is a complete unadulterated joke. From the weak corporate ass kissing regional managers to the poor sales reps who entered the business without a real idea what they were in for. If you peruse Medreps.Com or other employment boards you see the same thing over and over "Please, No Pharma Reps." That is the sad reality. You pharma reps are stuck where you are. Its miserable where you are, and you have no other place to go. Suit wearing, report writing, lunch providing, sample droppers. It shouldn't even be called a " sales" job. There is no sales involved. The worse part of being a pharma rep is the degrading way staff and doctors treat you. That in itself was enough for me to get out. No one has the right to treat me with such disrespect and contempt. Anyone who posts here defending this horrible unethical industry needs to understand you are brainwashed.
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i completely agree with this and i work for this shit ass company. unfortunately i needed a job and was offered a good package so i took it. I am trying to desperately get out of pharma and into something that is truly sales......this company leads by fear and IT IS NOT FRIGGIN SALES!!!!! i am so sick of success stories, and stupid ass two day ride alongs that score you on crap like spending your budget money...just to spend it.....even if there is no return on investment. i wish this damn company would have a lay off and get rid of us...oh wait....i might as well just leave...they dont offer a severance package!
 






Anonymous said:
WHo the fuck are mr device sales man, here to tell us how good you are , you cock sucker.
Why are you posting on our board if you are "so successful"? you arrogant piece of shit. By the way moron, this health care bill is going to hit you and us right between the eyes , and with all the new restrictions of treatment of 65 and above and the tax you will need to pay the govt, you are screwed. YOu will not make anywhere near the money you make now , and maybe then you will understand that you are just another rep selling, not some elitest "saleman selling devices"
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Awesome
 






Anonymous said:
I still work for Forest and do not believe that this is real sales. It is mostly marketing.
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I'm trying to figure out why everyone thinks it's not a good job if it's not "real sales." So what if I consider myself a "marketing rep" or a "sales rep"?

Most doctors don't want to be "sold to" anyways. Think about it. When you go into a big electronics store, do you want someone hounding you so they can make a sale, or do you just want them available at arm's length to answer any questions you may have?

I don't care what title they give me, or what my technical job description is. I care what they pay me, and how I'm treated by my DM. Right now, everything is going great. (Until the Obamanation health plan ruins it all.)
 






You are exactly correct that it should not matter your title. My point in this is that is what matters to your DMs - what your sales are! Most docs don't want to be sold to but this is exactly how we are evaluated. If all we can do is go out and market our products than is it fair to evaluate us based off of sales numbers? Oh and remember, according to our DMs, managed care does not matter cause it does not sell our products.
 
























Anonymous said:
While there is truth that the healthcare bill will likely pinch our earnings, if you make 200k vs 100k, the cut will still make the divide between Forest and device large. And the job activity will always be different. This bill will hit both pharma and device. you idiots who voted for hope and change essentially sealed the change of the medical field forever. well done.
This bill is another step in the deterioration of the pharma business model. It's been sliding for years. It's only going to get worse.
At this point, be thankful we have jobs, but this pharma model is dying.
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Funny reading these old posts. You all seem to miss the point in its entirety. The problem at schlock operations like forest is not the "industry" or the health care legislation, it is the "pods"s and the culture of the forest sales model and personnel. The companies that are going to be extinct in 1-2 years are the same one's who ruined it long ago with pounding offices with 4 reps per one drug and not focusing on sales but on reach and frequecny, this is the forest way. How much did you spend, not sell......and you are fired if you do not sell but retained if you kiss ass and spend money.....the ass leading the kettle around the dingy theory.......the sample ratio's and how many calls per pod per doc is what will be eliminated in the near future, a territory will have 1 rep not 4 or 5, I cannot wait to see the jockeying and politics behind which reps stay and whom go, you know forest will be looking at least a 50% reduction in head count with no severance pak in the coming months. The dec. has already been made to thin out the pods.....finally....reality is sinking in.
 






Anonymous said:
Funny reading these old posts. You all seem to miss the point in its entirety. The problem at schlock operations like forest is not the "industry" or the health care legislation, it is the "pods"s and the culture of the forest sales model and personnel. The companies that are going to be extinct in 1-2 years are the same one's who ruined it long ago with pounding offices with 4 reps per one drug and not focusing on sales but on reach and frequecny, this is the forest way. How much did you spend, not sell......and you are fired if you do not sell but retained if you kiss ass and spend money.....the ass leading the kettle around the dingy theory.......the sample ratio's and how many calls per pod per doc is what will be eliminated in the near future, a territory will have 1 rep not 4 or 5, I cannot wait to see the jockeying and politics behind which reps stay and whom go, you know forest will be looking at least a 50% reduction in head count with no severance pak in the coming months. The dec. has already been made to thin out the pods.....finally....reality is sinking in.
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While I agree with you that Forest has to cut reps in the future and that the POD system does not make any sense, why did they just do an expansion of the sales force and why are they speeding up the stock repurchase plan? I can't seem to quite figure this out. At a time when we are going to be bringing in less revenue we start to spend more money.
 






Anonymous said:
While I agree with you that Forest has to cut reps in the future and that the POD system does not make any sense, why did they just do an expansion of the sales force and why are they speeding up the stock repurchase plan? I can't seem to quite figure this out. At a time when we are going to be bringing in less revenue we start to spend more money.
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...because of their brilliant business acumen!
 






L.R. in MI is a new Manager, but I think he is for real. I know him both as an RST & a DM. Always willing to show you what a good job looks like and doesn't let you drown out they"re. Just my two cents though. We'll see if someone disagrees with me.
 












Anonymous said:
Agreed. I am in device sales, and it is respectable, challenging, and unlike pharma you do sell, and you are an actual resource for the Dr. When I go into the OR with scrubs on, and I am standing next to the surgeon it is all business, and I better know what I am doing. The pharma industry is a complete unadulterated joke. From the weak corporate ass kissing regional managers to the poor sales reps who entered the business without a real idea what they were in for. If you peruse Medreps.Com or other employment boards you see the same thing over and over "Please, No Pharma Reps." That is the sad reality. You pharma reps are stuck where you are. Its miserable where you are, and you have no other place to go. Suit wearing, report writing, lunch providing, sample droppers. It shouldn't even be called a " sales" job. There is no sales involved. The worse part of being a pharma rep is the degrading way staff and doctors treat you. That in itself was enough for me to get out. No one has the right to treat me with such disrespect and contempt. Anyone who posts here defending this horrible unethical industry needs to understand you are brainwashed.
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EASY THERE TIGER! GET OVER YOURSELF! THE DOCS STILL DON'T RESPECT YOU, I PROMISE-I AM SURE. NEXT TIME YOU ARE IN THE OR, ASK THEM.
 












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