generics

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Thanks for the correction lol. Good thing most people believe in progression and improvements in medicine and treatments. Otherwise, they might still be getting paregoric and Mrs. Winslow's Soothing Syrup prescribed. Doc knows best right????? Nobody is slandering anything...just trying to do better.
 






Anonymous said:
Thanks for the correction lol. Good thing most people believe in progression and improvements in medicine and treatments. Otherwise, they might still be getting paregoric and Mrs. Winslow's Soothing Syrup prescribed. Doc knows best right????? Nobody is slandering anything...just trying to do better.
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Exactly!!! RB is making LESS money on the Film than the tablet, FYI, so stop accusing reps of "slandering" their own product. Some reps may come off that way, but it's not what RB taught them. The street price for tablets is skyrocketing b/c less are available now since more and more docs are writing Film. And yes, Film can be diverted but not nearly as easily as the tablets could. For those that don't know, RB was pretty much forced to make the Film by the FDA and DEA b/c of the rampant street use of the tablets. It was that or the threat of shutting down the whole "office treatment" thing. So shut up unless you know the facts.
 


















Anonymous said:
It's already all over the streets (Suboxone and Subutex) and the Film will be too. RBP was racking in the Subutex money for years and never cared until generics entered the market. The compensation for CL's was based on Subutex and Suboxone and if you had Subutex business there was no incentive to switch patients over to Suboxone because it would be 30% harder to reach quota. If you didn't reach quota you lose your job. RBP setting the standard for care - what a crock of SHIT. It wishes. Most physicians are so discussed with RBP's deceptive propaganda. U should be on Suboxone for as long as you need to - haha! Forever is the true answer. RBP is no better than the rest of the Pain med pushers - RBP and the CL's are a joke. Keep believing the lies - it will help you sleep better at night. Stricter regs are needed ASAP!!!!
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1. You're a moron who doesn't know what the hell you're talking about.
2. Subutex was NEVER promoted by CLs, and was a fraction of the overall pharma revenue, so there goes that argument. Oh and btw, Subutex was always priced higher than Suboxone on purpose (long before the generic hit), to keep doctors from using it over Suboxone.
3. Getting paid on Subutex sales ended years ago, as did getting paid on non-certified docs
4. If you didn't hit your quota you were fired? Shit, I should have been fired the 1st time I missed my quota. That's a joke of a statement, unless someone was consistently under performing or just a fucking moron of a CL.
5. Doctors are discussed? Really? Oh, you meant DISGUSTED. That isn't a typo, or mixing up they're and their...that is just stupidity.
6. I don't know about you, but my good docs that know what the hell they are doing can and do get people off Suboxone. There will always be some people that need it for life, but I never promote it like another methadone.
7. RB did what no other company wanted to do; bring bupe to the US. It sucked in the beginning and then caught fire and took off. Now every vulture company saw what they did and is trying to make a buck (BuTrans, what a joke). Bupe was relegated to your local vet's office to give to Fido after a surgery until RB made a big gamble on it for addiction.

I am not saying RB is perfect; far from it. But to make stupid claims that are plain not true shows your either have an axe to grind, or are just that ignorant.
 






Anonymous said:
This statement would have to be up there in the most ridiculous to come out of this forum.

You're suggesting that pharma reps and experts whose pockets are lined by the manufacturer provide more trustworthy information than the patients who take the medication and actually experience its effects first hand? You're suggesting that those with motive are somehow more bona fide than those patients who have actually experienced taking Suboxone themselves? Nobody cares for the well being of the honest recovery minded patient more than the patient themselves. Nobody can describe how it feels to be on Suboxone more than the patients themselves.

I've been lurking on this forum for some time now, and it never ceases to amaze me how much you guys don't understand about your own medication.

Let me give you an example of some misnomers you guys perpetuate that the patients have to constantly try to correct. Unfortunately because your constant inference to doctors that many Sub patients who disagree with your deceptions are manipulative or not trustworthy, many have a hard time getting their doctors to listen. Way to go.

First untruth - "You can't inject or snort Suboxone". How many doctors believe this lie amazes me. While there is increased precipitated withdrawal with Suboxone over Subutex for those who are abusing agonists like heroin or Oxycodone, those who only take Suboxone can easily inject it every day with no precipitated withdrawal. Suboxone therefore only marginally helps with the diversion problem over Subutex and its generics.

Second - "It's harder to divert the film". Can someone explain to me how the fuck this is the case? There is no system to keep track of the numbers.

Third - The film is actually easier to inject.

Fourth - Some people DO need doses as high as 24-32mg. What you guys are incapable of understanding is that, even if the ceiling is around 8mg ... a patient still needs to have their levels remain over the ceiling for THE WHOLE 24 hours. Those who have a fast metabolism often require doses over 24mg for the trough level of buprenorphine (the lowest level of buprenorphine in plasma just prior to their next dose) to be over the ceiling. It's really not that fucking hard to understand.

Fifth - "Suboxone's withdrawal is relatively mild". Reality: Buprenorphine's withdrawal is just as bad as the agonists. Because it's a long acting opioid, withdrawal off buprenorphine can last 2-3 times as long as heroin or morphine. And jumping off a high dose of buprenorphine can be equally if not more painful than jumping off a high dose of morphine. Because of this suggestion of yours, many doctors are gung ho when they take their patient off buprenorphine and suggest ridiculously high jump-offs like 1mg, and then scratch their head when their patient experiences intense withdrawal, or relapse.

I understand that you guys are glorified salespeople, and it's unrealistic expect a salesperson to be honest all the time about what they peddle. What's astonishing however is, and this forum is evidence of it, that you guys actually believe your own bullshit.

For the most part it's the clients who opt to go generic, not the doctors who force it on the client. When the generic comes out, I won't switch because it's better or cheaper. It'll be because of the dishonourable way you've been marketing your shit. Coming from an addict that doesn't say much about you guys.
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Thank you for the above! You are so right. And, RBP does very little to train physicians and CL on how to help patients withdrawl from Buprenorphine. It's an "unmentionable". Hmmmm I wonder why???
 






You are a complete fool of you think for one second that patients are always truthful. That or you are blinded by the greed. They use providers to get what they want. I hate to say it but in a lot of cases yes the "reps" know more than the patient. Speaking from my own, an addict must know when its time, not the dr, staff , rep, family. But you are part of the problem if you have to much power in your own treatment. Providers need to get a set. Wheather you are or not. My own therapy would have been for shit if I had a provider that didn't stay strong. Weak ones seem to be fake and money grubbing bastards.
 












Lots of broad sweeping statements, name calling and accusations flying on here. Clearly, you don't know all the people who developed this medication, you don't understand who the target patient was and is. Most obvious , is your lack of understanding of most everything having to do with what went into getting this med on the market and the incredibly compassionate people who did their best to get this med out to help as many people as possible. Further, you clearly don't care that there is a difference between an addict and the chemically dependant. You dont know or care about what went into hiring clinical people vs. sales schelps who truly did screw reputation of those initially hired to market this medication. Last, but not least, you stereotype and smear as many people and facets of this company and medication as you can, without having ever met or known anyone who works for the company.

So, who is it that you hate most of all? Could it possibly be yourself? Your job? Your out of control life? Go get some help and let those who want to help, go do their job. Not everyone is a profiteering monster, liar or cheat. Maybe, its just you and maybe, its just what you've been brainwashed to believe.
 






Anonymous said:
Lots of broad sweeping statements, name calling and accusations flying on here. Clearly, you don't know all the people who developed this medication, you don't understand who the target patient was and is. Most obvious , is your lack of understanding of most everything having to do with what went into getting this med on the market and the incredibly compassionate people who did their best to get this med out to help as many people as possible. Further, you clearly don't care that there is a difference between an addict and the chemically dependant. You dont know or care about what went into hiring clinical people vs. sales schelps who truly did screw reputation of those initially hired to market this medication. Last, but not least, you stereotype and smear as many people and facets of this company and medication as you can, without having ever met or known anyone who works for the company.

So, who is it that you hate most of all? Could it possibly be yourself? Your job? Your out of control life? Go get some help and let those who want to help, go do their job. Not everyone is a profiteering monster, liar or cheat. Maybe, its just you and maybe, its just what you've been brainwashed to believe.
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Reckitt Benckiser Pharmaceuticals (The global and domestic leadership team ) is the profiteering monster, liar and cheat.
 






Pants on fire! Post #19 is no physician. It is a methadone rep, coming on here, blowing and running scared. I never had any respect for them anyway. Used to drivel around professional meetings and say all sorts of highly unprofessional things, let alone even things that make sense. Any REAL physician, who bothers to take the time to learn and study, knows there is a helluva lot of difference between Methadone and buprenorphine. Chemically different, so naturally they have a different effect on the brain and the body, but hey, I'm preachin to the choir. Idiota could care less what the truth is. They just come on here with their egos and burned out selves squeeling and have never even bothered to learn what the differences are, why or what the two different meds were mader and the circumstances surrounding how they were launched.

No REAL physician comes on here spewing that much ignorance. So brains on the floor, hows about you go study up on the difference between a partial opiate agonist and a full agonist, for starters? That will make for some good bed time reading for Bonzo and maybe you can start to understand a few things. I said "start."
 






Anonymous said:
No REAL physician comes on here spewing that much ignorance. So brains on the floor, hows about you go study up on the difference between a partial opiate agonist and a full agonist, for starters? That will make for some good bed time reading for Bonzo and maybe you can start to understand a few things. I said "start."
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A partial mu agonist only partially activates the mu receptor. A mu agonist fully activates the mu receptor.

One has a partial effect. The other has a full effect.

But what degree?

If you or I (assuming you are not opioid dependent and of low tolerance) took 4mg of buprenorphine, we'd be incredibly ill, nauseous, our breathing would be shallow, we'd be hypotensive. We'd be overdosing. Whilst it likely wouldn't be fatal, it'd still be an overdose.

40mg of methadone would have a similar effect.

The fact buprenorphine is a partial agonist doesn't put it in a different class to methadone. It is still an incredibly potent opioid with abuse potential. Its overdoses are also much harder to treat. I find it amazing that in America RB has somehow managed to distance Suboxone from methadone whereas in other countries, recovering opioid addicts simply see methadone and Suboxone as two options on offer. Suboxone is just viewed as "methadone-lite".
 






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