generics

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All I have heard is that the generic companies have requested RB's help with the REMS. I haven't heard whether or not RB is indeed assisting; without a patent on the tabs they might HAVE to, due to FDA regulations requiring RB share that information. Just a guess.

All I know is we've heard a "generic is coming" for two years now, about every quarter. Still nothing, and even if they do come out, well it was a good ride while it lasted. Pray for a new product to promote. Gotta love the FDA, giving RB shit for all the tab diversion and forcing them into making the Film, then they're going to approve 6 generics. Dumbasses. And don't fool yourselves, a big part of the Film even being here was b/c the DEA/FDA were threatening the whole office based thing b/c of all the diversion, I mean sure it was a line extension for more $$$, as we are a for profit business after all. But RB got its ass chewed for diversion of the tabs, and now the FDA is going to let generics come out? Love that government hypocrisy!!
 
























Anonymous said:
All I have heard is that the generic companies have requested RB's help with the REMS. I haven't heard whether or not RB is indeed assisting; without a patent on the tabs they might HAVE to, due to FDA regulations requiring RB share that information. Just a guess.

All I know is we've heard a "generic is coming" for two years now, about every quarter. Still nothing, and even if they do come out, well it was a good ride while it lasted. Pray for a new product to promote. Gotta love the FDA, giving RB shit for all the tab diversion and forcing them into making the Film, then they're going to approve 6 generics. Dumbasses. And don't fool yourselves, a big part of the Film even being here was b/c the DEA/FDA were threatening the whole office based thing b/c of all the diversion, I mean sure it was a line extension for more $$$, as we are a for profit business after all. But RB got its ass chewed for diversion of the tabs, and now the FDA is going to let generics come out? Love that government hypocrisy!!
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And, no one thinks the strips aren't being diverted too? You reps might talk to your doctors about the patients that state they need 24-32mg of suboxone; all the while taking one strip and selling the other three. It seems that some doctors now require counts of the empty strip packages, but don't know enough to match up the numbers on each pack. Those that don't take their recovery or this program seriously are constantly thinking of ways to manipulate.
 






of course they are. Patients don't need much of this. If doctors would quit listening to patients and start listening to medical experts that understand all of this they would know that. As for Film counts, its hard to do a Film count when the packages are not in numerical sequence in the box. Patients just buy or borrow empty packets for counts. I dont get how manufacturing cant figure out how to package each box in numerical sequence.
 






Can't come fast enough as far as I am concerned. Patients deserve affordable treatment. RBP has made way too much money from this product. RB is a user company that doesn't give a damn about the USA market. I hope the FDA and DOJ uncover all the scheming.
 






Anonymous said:
Can't come fast enough as far as I am concerned. Patients deserve affordable treatment. RBP has made way too much money from this product. RB is a user company that doesn't give a damn about the USA market. I hope the FDA and DOJ uncover all the scheming.
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Are you joking?? We GIVE away the Film to anyone with insurance, and nearly every state covers it in some form on their Medicaid plans. I guess it's illegal now to be a for-profit business. Yeah we should just let a generic arrive without a fight. Maybe you can pay my mortgage after I lose my job b/c RB is "making way too much money". Supply and demand you idiot! Learn economics and then get back to me.

You want to talk about "affordable treatment"?? Go to a methadone clinic EVERY DAY, pay the $10-15 they charge, plus the gas you use going to/from the clinic, time lost with family and work, etc. Or detox? Go see what detox centers charge. No insurance?? Sorry, you have to pay $10,000. And you will relapse b/c opiate addiction has about a 98% relapse rate when people are just detoxed.

Suboxone IS affordable treatment, you moron. It's not cheap, but it certainly is a hell of a lot cheaper than the other options out there.
 












Ok, we get it. We all know RB is here to make $$ not necessarily save lives. But if lives are saved while making $$, good job. Unfortunately, addicts have always had a stigma attached to them because of their behaviors. Whats even more unfortunate is Suboxone has developed a negative stigma of it's ownbecause of poorly run treatment in offices where the docs are making $$ hand over fist. If you want to talk affordability lets talk about the doctors. What other "disease" do you know of that a doc can choose to only accept cash, EVEN IF, your insurance covers it? If you want to slam RB lets slam the whole damn thing because I think its completely F***CKED up. Every DEA agent assesses offices differently, there is no standard of care in this treatment, the docs are milking the cash cow, RB is making lots of $$, the patients are lying and selling scripts, and DEA doesn't have any idea how to handle it all. The most bizarre thing of all of this is RB, a pharma company, is developing the standard of care for a disease or medical condition. Why cant all the "expert" physicians and medical groups figure out some standard of care that everyone can live by? The formula isn't that complicated. If they can figure out a standard of care for treating a stroke or heart attack you mean to tell me they can't on this? So, now comes generics. The majority of the docs treating these patients don't really know addiction or how to treat it (nor do they care), how the hell will they know what impact a generic will have? There will be scripts flying like crazy, this will be all over the streets.
 






Anonymous said:
Ok, we get it. We all know RB is here to make $$ not necessarily save lives. But if lives are saved while making $$, good job. Unfortunately, addicts have always had a stigma attached to them because of their behaviors. Whats even more unfortunate is Suboxone has developed a negative stigma of it's ownbecause of poorly run treatment in offices where the docs are making $$ hand over fist. If you want to talk affordability lets talk about the doctors. What other "disease" do you know of that a doc can choose to only accept cash, EVEN IF, your insurance covers it? If you want to slam RB lets slam the whole damn thing because I think its completely F***CKED up. Every DEA agent assesses offices differently, there is no standard of care in this treatment, the docs are milking the cash cow, RB is making lots of $$, the patients are lying and selling scripts, and DEA doesn't have any idea how to handle it all. The most bizarre thing of all of this is RB, a pharma company, is developing the standard of care for a disease or medical condition. Why cant all the "expert" physicians and medical groups figure out some standard of care that everyone can live by? The formula isn't that complicated. If they can figure out a standard of care for treating a stroke or heart attack you mean to tell me they can't on this? So, now comes generics. The majority of the docs treating these patients don't really know addiction or how to treat it (nor do they care), how the hell will they know what impact a generic will have? There will be scripts flying like crazy, this will be all over the streets.
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It's already all over the streets (Suboxone and Subutex) and the Film will be too. RBP was racking in the Subutex money for years and never cared until generics entered the market. The compensation for CL's was based on Subutex and Suboxone and if you had Subutex business there was no incentive to switch patients over to Suboxone because it would be 30% harder to reach quota. If you didn't reach quota you lose your job. RBP setting the standard for care - what a crock of SHIT. It wishes. Most physicians are so discussed with RBP's deceptive propaganda. U should be on Suboxone for as long as you need to - haha! Forever is the true answer. RBP is no better than the rest of the Pain med pushers - RBP and the CL's are a joke. Keep believing the lies - it will help you sleep better at night. Stricter regs are needed ASAP!!!!
 






Wow. You really have no idea of what you talking about, or you just have an ax to grind. There is nothing in your comment above that has any validity or truth. Why don't you find another board to play on for a while.
 






Anonymous said:
of course they are. Patients don't need much of this. If doctors would quit listening to patients and start listening to medical experts that understand all of this they would know that.
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This statement would have to be up there in the most ridiculous to come out of this forum.

You're suggesting that pharma reps and experts whose pockets are lined by the manufacturer provide more trustworthy information than the patients who take the medication and actually experience its effects first hand? You're suggesting that those with motive are somehow more bona fide than those patients who have actually experienced taking Suboxone themselves? Nobody cares for the well being of the honest recovery minded patient more than the patient themselves. Nobody can describe how it feels to be on Suboxone more than the patients themselves.

I've been lurking on this forum for some time now, and it never ceases to amaze me how much you guys don't understand about your own medication.

Let me give you an example of some misnomers you guys perpetuate that the patients have to constantly try to correct. Unfortunately because your constant inference to doctors that many Sub patients who disagree with your deceptions are manipulative or not trustworthy, many have a hard time getting their doctors to listen. Way to go.

First untruth - "You can't inject or snort Suboxone". How many doctors believe this lie amazes me. While there is increased precipitated withdrawal with Suboxone over Subutex for those who are abusing agonists like heroin or Oxycodone, those who only take Suboxone can easily inject it every day with no precipitated withdrawal. Suboxone therefore only marginally helps with the diversion problem over Subutex and its generics.

Second - "It's harder to divert the film". Can someone explain to me how the fuck this is the case? There is no system to keep track of the numbers.

Third - The film is actually easier to inject.

Fourth - Some people DO need doses as high as 24-32mg. What you guys are incapable of understanding is that, even if the ceiling is around 8mg ... a patient still needs to have their levels remain over the ceiling for THE WHOLE 24 hours. Those who have a fast metabolism often require doses over 24mg for the trough level of buprenorphine (the lowest level of buprenorphine in plasma just prior to their next dose) to be over the ceiling. It's really not that fucking hard to understand.

Fifth - "Suboxone's withdrawal is relatively mild". Reality: Buprenorphine's withdrawal is just as bad as the agonists. Because it's a long acting opioid, withdrawal off buprenorphine can last 2-3 times as long as heroin or morphine. And jumping off a high dose of buprenorphine can be equally if not more painful than jumping off a high dose of morphine. Because of this suggestion of yours, many doctors are gung ho when they take their patient off buprenorphine and suggest ridiculously high jump-offs like 1mg, and then scratch their head when their patient experiences intense withdrawal, or relapse.

I understand that you guys are glorified salespeople, and it's unrealistic expect a salesperson to be honest all the time about what they peddle. What's astonishing however is, and this forum is evidence of it, that you guys actually believe your own bullshit.

For the most part it's the clients who opt to go generic, not the doctors who force it on the client. When the generic comes out, I won't switch because it's better or cheaper. It'll be because of the dishonourable way you've been marketing your shit. Coming from an addict that doesn't say much about you guys.
 












Anonymous said:
This statement would have to be up there in the most ridiculous to come out of this forum.

You're suggesting that pharma reps and experts whose pockets are lined by the manufacturer provide more trustworthy information than the patients who take the medication and actually experience its effects first hand? You're suggesting that those with motive are somehow more bona fide than those patients who have actually experienced taking Suboxone themselves? Nobody cares for the well being of the honest recovery minded patient more than the patient themselves. Nobody can describe how it feels to be on Suboxone more than the patients themselves.

I've been lurking on this forum for some time now, and it never ceases to amaze me how much you guys don't understand about your own medication.

Let me give you an example of some misnomers you guys perpetuate that the patients have to constantly try to correct. Unfortunately because your constant inference to doctors that many Sub patients who disagree with your deceptions are manipulative or not trustworthy, many have a hard time getting their doctors to listen. Way to go.

First untruth - "You can't inject or snort Suboxone". How many doctors believe this lie amazes me. While there is increased precipitated withdrawal with Suboxone over Subutex for those who are abusing agonists like heroin or Oxycodone, those who only take Suboxone can easily inject it every day with no precipitated withdrawal. Suboxone therefore only marginally helps with the diversion problem over Subutex and its generics.

Second - "It's harder to divert the film". Can someone explain to me how the fuck this is the case? There is no system to keep track of the numbers.

Third - The film is actually easier to inject.

Fourth - Some people DO need doses as high as 24-32mg. What you guys are incapable of understanding is that, even if the ceiling is around 8mg ... a patient still needs to have their levels remain over the ceiling for THE WHOLE 24 hours. Those who have a fast metabolism often require doses over 24mg for the trough level of buprenorphine (the lowest level of buprenorphine in plasma just prior to their next dose) to be over the ceiling. It's really not that fucking hard to understand.

Fifth - "Suboxone's withdrawal is relatively mild". Reality: Buprenorphine's withdrawal is just as bad as the agonists. Because it's a long acting opioid, withdrawal off buprenorphine can last 2-3 times as long as heroin or morphine. And jumping off a high dose of buprenorphine can be equally if not more painful than jumping off a high dose of morphine. Because of this suggestion of yours, many doctors are gung ho when they take their patient off buprenorphine and suggest ridiculously high jump-offs like 1mg, and then scratch their head when their patient experiences intense withdrawal, or relapse.

I understand that you guys are glorified salespeople, and it's unrealistic expect a salesperson to be honest all the time about what they peddle. What's astonishing however is, and this forum is evidence of it, that you guys actually believe your own bullshit.

For the most part it's the clients who opt to go generic, not the doctors who force it on the client. When the generic comes out, I won't switch because it's better or cheaper. It'll be because of the dishonourable way you've been marketing your shit. Coming from an addict that doesn't say much about you guys.
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I can tell you as an addict that there is some truth but a lot of bull shit on your comments. The company tells them what to say and what the effects of the meds are. YOur clients opt for the generic bc they are not doing the Right thing you dumb fuck. It is people like you that let your clients run your office that give this medicine a bad name. Yeah yeah sales people are horrible. Well you are an idiot. you are making money and alot of it from the prescribing of this med. Then you slap the company in the face that helped you get up and running, or are you so special that the generic cl is calling on you. Never mind the lack respect, but the lack of loyalty is never brought up. so keep trying to justify your actions and not being accountable for ANY action you take. That way when you send your staff to the bank every night for the deposit and you go to your meetings to claim you are trying to help, you will be able to sleep. Sleep tight and keep slinging from your office, the corner is to full.
 






Thank you to those that blew through the real BS of that lengthy, medical-level, cover up. The last post is correct. The patients want straight buprenorphine to hussle and divert. I've heard way, way too many stories of the patient's BS. Good doctors can't believe how they get lied to (by the pt) and bad doctors really don't care. The bad docs want justification, or like it was said above, a better way to sleep at night. So they come on here educating everyone on why all the bad things like very high doses and giving pts what they want (Subutex!!) is ok. While bashing reasonable tapering, 1mg slowly, (yes, trying to help these people come off) is bad. Laughing all the way to the bank, destroying recovery rather than helping it, AND giving the only treatment to this point in the game that has given anyone a chance at getting well a BAD name.
 






I can't help but laugh at some of the assumptions you have made about how I operate.

One thing I need to clarify. A good doctor's loyalty is towards his patients alone, not towards any pharmaceutical company. A good doctor chooses the best medication to suit the patients needs. He / she does NOT choose the medication the pharma reps push or a drug that's talked up at some company funded seminar.

I once had a lot of respect for Reckitt. It was only after you began slandering your own product (Suboxone tablets) in an attempt to further the sales of the film that my opinion of you dropped. You have been promoting Suboxone and trumpeting its benefits for nearly a decade. You expect doctors to conveniently forget all that so you can better your profits?

AND giving the only treatment to this point in the game that has given anyone a chance at getting well a BAD name.
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Methadone has been around for decades and has helped numerous people get out of the addict lifestyle and into recovery. Suggesting Suboxone is the only treatment at this time is a touch arrogant. There are many patients for whom Suboxone doesn't work, or "isn't enough" to hold their cravings. Methadone can work wonders in these people.
 












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