Ethicon takeover of synthes

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anonymous said:
ive seen this happening over several years, especially as our commission schedules became so convoluted. not sure this is the place to be anymore.
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Agreed, i certainly don’t think we have the structure to compete any longer. In my area at least the surgeons coming in are no longer synthes trained and don’t consider us the dominant trauma company.
 






Yeah, I hear about how Synthes was so dominant but literally every new surgeon is trained on Stryker or something else. My quota is fucked too with these weird ass systems they use to break up the year. I have so little control over my own destiny now, is this even worth it anymore?
 






I'm just holding on for the long-term health benefits and the pension. That's why any of us original Synthes guys are still here. Timing is everything - we worked here when the job was fun and the money insane. You young bastards will never have it as good as us. What they save on low paying the newbies they can put toward our entitlements. Kinda dumb but hey I'll take it.
 






anonymous said:
I'm just holding on for the long-term health benefits and the pension. That's why any of us original Synthes guys are still here. Timing is everything - we worked here when the job was fun and the money insane. You young bastards will never have it as good as us. What they save on low paying the newbies they can put toward our entitlements. Kinda dumb but hey I'll take it.
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anonymous said:
I'm just holding on for the long-term health benefits and the pension. That's why any of us original Synthes guys are still here. Timing is everything - we worked here when the job was fun and the money insane. You young bastards will never have it as good as us. What they save on low paying the newbies they can put toward our entitlements. Kinda dumb but hey I'll take it.
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Exactly right, feel bad for the new guys, but they seem to figure it out at about month 12 and move on. Then i get to listen to my manager blame the sales consultants for the turnover. Comical really.
 






anonymous said:
Exactly right, feel bad for the new guys, but they seem to figure it out at about month 12 and move on. Then i get to listen to my manager blame the sales consultants for the turnover. Comical really.
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this is very true. My area has had a lot of return over, but all but one has been people here less than 3 years. The tenured rep leaving was also understandable- they were fed up with the JnJ methods. Their backfills are just terrible, and will probably leave too. The cycle just is on repeat.

god damn shame what JnJ did and continues to do. Lots of great people have left and more will leave this year. Your days are numbered KC…
 












anonymous said:
this is very true. My area has had a lot of return over, but all but one has been people here less than 3 years. The tenured rep leaving was also understandable- they were fed up with the JnJ methods. Their backfills are just terrible, and will probably leave too. The cycle just is on repeat.

god damn shame what JnJ did and continues to do. Lots of great people have left and more will leave this year. Your days are numbered KC…
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When you hire people based on DEI standards this is what happens.
 






anonymous said:
When you hire people based on DEI standards this is what happens.
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when your hire on DEI and pass by actual qualified candidates you are left with this dumpster fire. If you’re a white male it doesn’t matter how good you are, a less qualified candidate will get your job to fill an arbitrary dei quota. Not saying there aren’t dei candidates that are good, far from it. But if the candidate pool for a particular role has 2 applicants; one a white male with all the qualifications and one a dei candidate that can’t count to 10, guess who gets the role? I’ve seen it no less then 10 times in 2 years in my area.
 






anonymous said:
when your hire on DEI and pass by actual qualified candidates you are left with this dumpster fire. If you’re a white male it doesn’t matter how good you are, a less qualified candidate will get your job to fill an arbitrary dei quota. Not saying there aren’t dei candidates that are good, far from it. But if the candidate pool for a particular role has 2 applicants; one a white male with all the qualifications and one a dei candidate that can’t count to 10, guess who gets the role? I’ve seen it no less then 10 times in 2 years in my area.
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our manager is more concerned with these standards than looking for good people and it is clearly demonstrated in the turnover. Can anyone explain this? Are they giving bonuses to managers for DEI hires? I know other industries are practicing this.
 






anonymous said:
our manager is more concerned with these standards than looking for good people and it is clearly demonstrated in the turnover. Can anyone explain this? Are they giving bonuses to managers for DEI hires? I know other industries are practicing this.
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as soon as you realize that sales management is paid on completely different metrics than sales reps, you can make an educated decision to leave this place. You’d think sales leadership would be paid similarly but on a different scale, but here it’s all about “reducing field inventory, reducing operational expenses, stymieing field equipment.” Literally all of these things are the opposite of what it takes to be a successful rep: enough field inventory to do our job, funding to do labs and educational events, and resources in general to do our jobs. This place makes literally zero sense. There is no way the competition operates like this.
 






anonymous said:
as soon as you realize that sales management is paid on completely different metrics than sales reps, you can make an educated decision to leave this place. You’d think sales leadership would be paid similarly but on a different scale, but here it’s all about “reducing field inventory, reducing operational expenses, stymieing field equipment.” Literally all of these things are the opposite of what it takes to be a successful rep: enough field inventory to do our job, funding to do labs and educational events, and resources in general to do our jobs. This place makes literally zero sense. There is no way the competition operates like this.
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makes you feel like your taking crazy pills
 






Stryker is woke too, just not as woke as JNJ. Maybe this is why they continue to take share. DPS celebrates its diversity while Stryker celebrates kicking DPS ass! DPS is always posting group pics of people standing around like a bunch of fools at a bad wedding. Meanwhile, Stryker posts pics of reps getting recognition at sales meetings for growing sales and taking share. Which culture do you think is more conducive for achieving success?

KC is not the problem but he's not the solution either. He knows who butters his bread and he's just hanging on like everyone else waiting for the pension and health benefits. Besides, who's going to hire him anyway?
 






anonymous said:
Stryker is woke too, just not as woke as JNJ. Maybe this is why they continue to take share. DPS celebrates its diversity while Stryker celebrates kicking DPS ass! DPS is always posting group pics of people standing around like a bunch of fools at a bad wedding. Meanwhile, Stryker posts pics of reps getting recognition at sales meetings for growing sales and taking share. Which culture do you think is more conducive for achieving success?

KC is not the problem but he's not the solution either. He knows who butters his bread and he's just hanging on like everyone else waiting for the pension and health benefits. Besides, who's going to hire him anyway?
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Good points all around. I notice the stryker posts as well. It’s a defined difference in our company cultures and its shows in our success in the market.
 






The difference is Stryker is a sales organization and JNJ is a finance company.

Stryker celebrates success, talks about sales, has national meetings, gives people literal arm fulls of cash at the meeting in front of everyone. Some of their practices would be deemed "immoral" by JNJ but they spend far more effort talking about selling, and providing tools and resources for people to do that.

JNJ looks at any business as a commodity business. They are fixated on controlling costs. Manufacturing, cost of sales, inventory etc. If they forecast for selling 100 nails they want to sell 100. Not 104, because then the machine will have to run longer or someone might get overtime.

This whole market for the major players is moving this direction. What legacy Synthes folks miss was all encompassed in the fact that it was a Swiss company void of US shareholders, not listed on the S&P & devoid of Wharton MBA's. In the end, even Orsinger started to cook the books for the sale and you could see the shift happening. You want excitement, sales, and the wild west again? Go work for a private company (Arthrex or something). It still exists out there you just have to look. Synthes as it was is dead and its never coming back. Stryker has different problems, but they certainly have their own set of problems.

It was a different world when you had promo sets showing up every week and "contracting" was a letter in October saying fuck you here is a 5% price increase.
 






Thanks Ken, what are you doing about this?
anonymous said:
The difference is Stryker is a sales organization and JNJ is a finance company.

Stryker celebrates success, talks about sales, has national meetings, gives people literal arm fulls of cash at the meeting in front of everyone. Some of their practices would be deemed "immoral" by JNJ but they spend far more effort talking about selling, and providing tools and resources for people to do that.

JNJ looks at any business as a commodity business. They are fixated on controlling costs. Manufacturing, cost of sales, inventory etc. If they forecast for selling 100 nails they want to sell 100. Not 104, because then the machine will have to run longer or someone might get overtime.

This whole market for the major players is moving this direction. What legacy Synthes folks miss was all encompassed in the fact that it was a Swiss company void of US shareholders, not listed on the S&P & devoid of Wharton MBA's. In the end, even Orsinger started to cook the books for the sale and you could see the shift happening. You want excitement, sales, and the wild west again? Go work for a private company (Arthrex or something). It still exists out there you just have to look. Synthes as it was is dead and its never coming back. Stryker has different problems, but they certainly have their own set of problems.

It was a different world when you had promo sets showing up every week and "contracting" was a letter in October saying fuck you here is a 5% price increase.
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anonymous said:
The difference is Stryker is a sales organization and JNJ is a finance company.

Stryker celebrates success, talks about sales, has national meetings, gives people literal arm fulls of cash at the meeting in front of everyone. Some of their practices would be deemed "immoral" by JNJ but they spend far more effort talking about selling, and providing tools and resources for people to do that.

JNJ looks at any business as a commodity business. They are fixated on controlling costs. Manufacturing, cost of sales, inventory etc. If they forecast for selling 100 nails they want to sell 100. Not 104, because then the machine will have to run longer or someone might get overtime.

This whole market for the major players is moving this direction. What legacy Synthes folks miss was all encompassed in the fact that it was a Swiss company void of US shareholders, not listed on the S&P & devoid of Wharton MBA's. In the end, even Orsinger started to cook the books for the sale and you could see the shift happening. You want excitement, sales, and the wild west again? Go work for a private company (Arthrex or something). It still exists out there you just have to look. Synthes as it was is dead and its never coming back. Stryker has different problems, but they certainly have their own set of problems.

It was a different world when you had promo sets showing up every week and "contracting" was a letter in October saying fuck you here is a 5% price increase.
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excellent, excellent write up. Spot on! You hit the nail on the head so accurately. This articulates what many of us feel but couldn’t quite figure out. I would even build on this and say JnJ is a marking company second to finance, certainly does is not second. Sales isnt even 3rd or 4th… I think if JnJ could “sell” its products without reps it would excitedly and eagerly embrace that model, even if they lost market share. The reason would be that the lost market share is greatly offset by the reduction in overhead. All so the executives can get another couple million because the share price would go up 3 cents.

this isn’t a sales company at all, I’m part due to the sellout of Synthes to JnJ but also because the market has evolved over the past 20 years. No big company (JnJ, Stryker, Medtronic, Abbott etc) operates the way it did 2 decades ago in this space. To really make the comp of the old days you either go to a private/start up with a killer unique product. You don’t go to a fortune 20 company. It’s a decent place to start a career in med device, but anyone a decade or two into their career has seen many changes, none for the better… especially the way their wallet has been impacted.

I’d advise my own kid to pick a different career at this point, as the juice isn’t worth the squeeze in device anymore.
 






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