CVS no longer report rx data to IMS

[Anonymous]

Having worked for 2 companies with products in the same class, no change in territory, and same mix of goals, I can promise you that each company reports different data. They can chose to report whatever they want. When I looked at the history of my former product, Novartis increased the value greatly, making it seem that my sales were greater with the competition vs Novartis than what my company reported. It is a huge scam, and only the terribly ignorant would think that the reps are being compensated in a manner that is consistent regardless what company they are with if the company buys IMS data.

Again, true but not accurate. Companies can select the mix of products they want (Novartis products, which competitors to list) and that can effect market share. If you took out say, Benicar Rxs, the total class volume would drop, and the Diovan mkt share would increase. If you only listed two products to make up the class (Diovan and Atacand), hopefully Diovan would have a 70% share and Ata have a 30% share. Now add in more products (competitors) and all shares would drop. This is no reflection on the rep's performance, just the more accurate picture of market.

I agree that if a company constantly changes the mix, the numbers vary. When this happens, the comparison vs previous quarters is also changed to reflect the mix of products.

No one ever said that the compensation system is without problems. But as so many do, they blame performance on on how "wrong" the numbers are rather then looking into the numbers to try to explain them. My advice (true, no one asked): look at your most important docs based on class volume, then see how your product is doing (increasing, declining) and compare to the competitors. Develop a strategy based on each docs data: what do I need to do to improve my performance? Stop hiding behind mommy's skirt, take responsibility and become accountable for your numbers. If you can't/don't, it's likely those numbers will not improve.

 

[Anonymous]

I worked for a manager for 6 years one time, and he expected us to know our data inside and out. When it came time for goal planning, I had to have goals based on my top 25 physicians' writing habits, and then for my territory. Good guy, gone now. When it came to midyears and such, I gave him my analysis, he didn't force his down my throat.

 

[Anonymous]

I don't agree. Scripts are being caught in other, reporting pharmacies. If you are trying to say that YOUR Novartis scripts are ONLY going to CVS, and that the competition's rx's are going to reporting stores, it simply is not true. If CVS does not report any Rx data, and if cities have a CVS on every corner, then you would see NO VOLUME being reported. Let me try a different example:

A physician has 6 exam rooms in his office, and each room has it's own supply of Rx pads, with duplicate copies remaining after the doc gives the original (sort of like having duplicate checks in your checkbook). So far so good? Those six rooms are not specific for a use, like a pediatric room, or an Gyn room. They're simply six rooms that see every type of patient that comes in over 6 months. One way to see what the doc is Rxing is to look at every single copy of the Rxs in all 6 rooms. That would be 100% accurate, right. What if you could only sneak a look in 3 of the rooms, count them, then double them. How accurate would that number be? Pretty close to 100%? I think so. You would have to be able to PROVE that one room's Rx pad is not very representative of the other 5 rooms. True there might be slight variation, because 1/6 of the data is not very much. But what if you had 2/6ths or 3/6ths, or 4/6ths?
You won't agree I'm sure, but I have worked for polling companies during presidential elections, and using polling surveys allows projections to be nearly perfect in predicting outcomes. When you look at your data, are competitors showing up? Is there volume data for the class? To use some "brand" name products for your Dr. Best, how many Diovan, Tekturna, Norvasc, Benicar, Atacand, etc products are showing up? If the class volume for HTN is there, and your Diovan numbers are going down, and your Tek are none existent, and the competitive products are growing, you got a problem that goes way beyond the data being wrong. That Dr. Best ain't listening to you, and the competitors are kicking your ass. Your Novartis product performance does not exist in a vacuum, and your competitions' numbers DO MATTER. Your may want to believe they don't, but if there are class numbers and other numbers (which help to determine market share), I am afraid you are missing the whole picture. Finally, you may gain some strength from calling others fools, but I'm just providing a different perspective. You may not like it, but 'non-reporting" outlets do not skew the results. Best of success to you!

You are missing my point. I understand all of the above you are saying but if all of my Novartis Rxs and my biggest competitors Rxs are being sent to all of my CVSs and I out number my competitor 10 to 1 (in my favor) and I am paid on mkt share change NONE of those Rxs are being caught to bring up my OVERALL territory market share. Forget about volume I am paid on mkt share change so volume to me doesn't matter. Its pretty simple to understand. The CVSs in my area is not reporting that I have a 75% mkt share in their stores (just using a number for this example) so therefore none of this market share is captured or used to give me an OVERALL territory mkt share which significantly hurts me, my bonus and promo opportunities.

 

[Anonymous]

THE NUMBERS ARE A TOTAL FABRICATION JUST ASK GSK REPS!!!!!!!! I could write a book with all the personal stories and second hand stories different reps have told me thru the years. No one cares, talk about fantasy football, this is fantasy pharmaceuticals. I make $110k a year. Does it really matter what they are talking about? Larry Holmes said it best when Mike Tyson knocked him out. "I could care less, I am laughing all the way to the bank!"

 

[Anonymous]

You are missing my point. I understand all of the above you are saying but if all of my Novartis Rxs and my biggest competitors Rxs are being sent to all of my CVSs and I out number my competitor 10 to 1 (in my favor) and I am paid on mkt share change NONE of those Rxs are being caught to bring up my OVERALL territory market share. Forget about volume I am paid on mkt share change so volume to me doesn't matter. Its pretty simple to understand. The CVSs in my area is not reporting that I have a 75% mkt share in their stores (just using a number for this example) so therefore none of this market share is captured or used to give me an OVERALL territory mkt share which significantly hurts me, my bonus and promo opportunities.

ALL? Did you say ALL of your scripts are going to CVS and CVS is not reporting? ALL of your Novartis RXs and ALL of your competitors are going to CVS? Therefore, you have ZERO data for your entire territory? There are no other pharmacy outlets? None? If that's the case there is no way to measure any volume, thus you have no volume numbers showing up. Is that what you are saying? This reminds me of when we had DDD (hello DDD advocate out there!!). When the DDD numbers were no good it was because ALL the Dr. My Best rxs were being filled in ANOTHER territory and they were getting the credit from my superior selling skills.

How do you measure market share change? It has to be based on something; it can't be based on nothing. If it is so simple to understand, then let me know how you arrive at mkt share change? Please fill your answer in the parenthesis provided. Please, no dirty words; this is a serious question. Use as much space as you need. (_________________).

Mkt share change is based on number of scripts generated, let's say, this 6 months vs the corresponding six months 1 year ago (seasonalized). If this 6 months your territory generated 1500 Diovan Rxs, and 1000 in the comparative months, you have had an increase of 50% (market share change). I bet that would make you happy; me too. How can you say you are not interested in volume numbers? Volume numbers are the basis for mkt share change. Sort your doctor list on class volume, and look at your entire doc list, from most Rxs written in a class to the doc who is at the bottom. I bet what you see is that 20-30 docs write more than 60-80% of the Rxs in the class. That's were you should be spending your time, not with the Dr. Haveno Patients. You see, Dr. Haveno Patients writes 10 hypertensive scripts in 3 months and you have ALL 10 of them with Diovan, or 100% market share with that doc. How you going to grow your business there? If you're measured on mkt share change, how much you going to change this doc, other than losing mkt share? It's those top 20-30 docs who write the most hypertensive scripts that you should be looking at as a place to grow business.

How do you know you have 10 times the number of Rxs as your competitors? If you really want to effect your change in mkt share, bonus, opps for promo, feeling of self-worth, etc, the first thing you should accept is that you don't need the CVS specific "what-doc-wrote-what" numbers in order to succeed with Novartis. However, if numbers are showing up in your data, then compare how you are doing against your competition. If the numbers show you have less market share, that's what you have to deal with.

And you know what, who really gives a crap if I can convince you or not. They are what they are! Accept that or don't. Anyway you look at, your manager and their managers, are going to use the performance tools they are given by the company, flawed or not. Would it be great to have 100% of the Rxs? Sure. If your numbers were great, would you believe it then? Sure. It's when numbers look less than good that people doubt the numbers or complain about them. "Dance with who brung ya" or you are NEVER going to get that promotion. If you are REALLY serious about all this promotion and bonus stuff, stop complaining about CVS and get your docs to stop using your competitors and start finding them places/reasons to use your products.

And another thing! How are you going to evaluate rep performance once you get this promotion, since you think all this IMS stuff is BS anyway. But that's another story. I'm heading over to Starbucks and getting a Grande Pike Place, not because I'm goofing off from my job, but because I was able to retire early. My choice, not their choice. Good luck to you.

 

[Anonymous]

Another thought on those who worry about data. In the last lay off, it appeared that there was little attention to market share. I know of 6 reps in my area who were slotted to win President's Club, now gone. In addition, since a very old law suit--I believe Jerry Spence was the attorney--reps are rarely terminated for numbers. It is too easy to find other criteria, especially the old "CCI" adjustment. If you still have your job, call on who can give you business, kiss your manater's ass, and you will be fine!

 

[Anonymous]

ALL? Did you say ALL of your scripts are going to CVS and CVS is not reporting? ALL of your Novartis RXs and ALL of your competitors are going to CVS? Therefore, you have ZERO data for your entire territory? There are no other pharmacy outlets? None? If that's the case there is no way to measure any volume, thus you have no volume numbers showing up. Is that what you are saying? This reminds me of when we had DDD (hello DDD advocate out there!!). When the DDD numbers were no good it was because ALL the Dr. My Best rxs were being filled in ANOTHER territory and they were getting the credit from my superior selling skills.

How do you measure market share change? It has to be based on something; it can't be based on nothing. If it is so simple to understand, then let me know how you arrive at mkt share change? Please fill your answer in the parenthesis provided. Please, no dirty words; this is a serious question. Use as much space as you need. (_________________).

Mkt share change is based on number of scripts generated, let's say, this 6 months vs the corresponding six months 1 year ago (seasonalized). If this 6 months your territory generated 1500 Diovan Rxs, and 1000 in the comparative months, you have had an increase of 50% (market share change). I bet that would make you happy; me too. How can you say you are not interested in volume numbers? Volume numbers are the basis for mkt share change. Sort your doctor list on class volume, and look at your entire doc list, from most Rxs written in a class to the doc who is at the bottom. I bet what you see is that 20-30 docs write more than 60-80% of the Rxs in the class. That's were you should be spending your time, not with the Dr. Haveno Patients. You see, Dr. Haveno Patients writes 10 hypertensive scripts in 3 months and you have ALL 10 of them with Diovan, or 100% market share with that doc. How you going to grow your business there? If you're measured on mkt share change, how much you going to change this doc, other than losing mkt share? It's those top 20-30 docs who write the most hypertensive scripts that you should be looking at as a place to grow business.

How do you know you have 10 times the number of Rxs as your competitors? If you really want to effect your change in mkt share, bonus, opps for promo, feeling of self-worth, etc, the first thing you should accept is that you don't need the CVS specific "what-doc-wrote-what" numbers in order to succeed with Novartis. However, if numbers are showing up in your data, then compare how you are doing against your competition. If the numbers show you have less market share, that's what you have to deal with.

And you know what, who really gives a crap if I can convince you or not. They are what they are! Accept that or don't. Anyway you look at, your manager and their managers, are going to use the performance tools they are given by the company, flawed or not. Would it be great to have 100% of the Rxs? Sure. If your numbers were great, would you believe it then? Sure. It's when numbers look less than good that people doubt the numbers or complain about them. "Dance with who brung ya" or you are NEVER going to get that promotion. If you are REALLY serious about all this promotion and bonus stuff, stop complaining about CVS and get your docs to stop using your competitors and start finding them places/reasons to use your products.

And another thing! How are you going to evaluate rep performance once you get this promotion, since you think all this IMS stuff is BS anyway. But that's another story. I'm heading over to Starbucks and getting a Grande Pike Place, not because I'm goofing off from my job, but because I was able to retire early. My choice, not their choice. Good luck to you.

some zoloft or prozac would do wonders for this dude, ocd is a real illness

 

[Anonymous]

OCD person here. Forget it then. Just take the money and not worry about the job or the consequences. No accountability, no consequences, right? Keep on complaining. Let me know how that works out for you. Even with that said, I still wish you well.

Shortest message I have sent.

 

[Anonymous]

If you believe there are consequences to this job, or any type of reality to this job, you must be an OCD ridden newbie!! Most of us who have been around more than--oh say, a year--realize that it is totally a crap shoot. In the meantime, keep doing your little analysis. I bet your team can hardly wait for your week report and I bet you print out a "hit list" of doctors for everyone. It is SO precious!

 

[Anonymous]

ALL? Did you say ALL of your scripts are going to CVS and CVS is not reporting? ALL of your Novartis RXs and ALL of your competitors are going to CVS? Therefore, you have ZERO data for your entire territory? There are no other pharmacy outlets? None? If that's the case there is no way to measure any volume, thus you have no volume numbers showing up. Is that what you are saying? This reminds me of when we had DDD (hello DDD advocate out there!!). When the DDD numbers were no good it was because ALL the Dr. My Best rxs were being filled in ANOTHER territory and they were getting the credit from my superior selling skills.

How do you measure market share change? It has to be based on something; it can't be based on nothing. If it is so simple to understand, then let me know how you arrive at mkt share change? Please fill your answer in the parenthesis provided. Please, no dirty words; this is a serious question. Use as much space as you need. (_________________).

Mkt share change is based on number of scripts generated, let's say, this 6 months vs the corresponding six months 1 year ago (seasonalized). If this 6 months your territory generated 1500 Diovan Rxs, and 1000 in the comparative months, you have had an increase of 50% (market share change). I bet that would make you happy; me too. How can you say you are not interested in volume numbers? Volume numbers are the basis for mkt share change. Sort your doctor list on class volume, and look at your entire doc list, from most Rxs written in a class to the doc who is at the bottom. I bet what you see is that 20-30 docs write more than 60-80% of the Rxs in the class. That's were you should be spending your time, not with the Dr. Haveno Patients. You see, Dr. Haveno Patients writes 10 hypertensive scripts in 3 months and you have ALL 10 of them with Diovan, or 100% market share with that doc. How you going to grow your business there? If you're measured on mkt share change, how much you going to change this doc, other than losing mkt share? It's those top 20-30 docs who write the most hypertensive scripts that you should be looking at as a place to grow business.

How do you know you have 10 times the number of Rxs as your competitors? If you really want to effect your change in mkt share, bonus, opps for promo, feeling of self-worth, etc, the first thing you should accept is that you don't need the CVS specific "what-doc-wrote-what" numbers in order to succeed with Novartis. However, if numbers are showing up in your data, then compare how you are doing against your competition. If the numbers show you have less market share, that's what you have to deal with.

And you know what, who really gives a crap if I can convince you or not. They are what they are! Accept that or don't. Anyway you look at, your manager and their managers, are going to use the performance tools they are given by the company, flawed or not. Would it be great to have 100% of the Rxs? Sure. If your numbers were great, would you believe it then? Sure. It's when numbers look less than good that people doubt the numbers or complain about them. "Dance with who brung ya" or you are NEVER going to get that promotion. If you are REALLY serious about all this promotion and bonus stuff, stop complaining about CVS and get your docs to stop using your competitors and start finding them places/reasons to use your products.

And another thing! How are you going to evaluate rep performance once you get this promotion, since you think all this IMS stuff is BS anyway. But that's another story. I'm heading over to Starbucks and getting a Grande Pike Place, not because I'm goofing off from my job, but because I was able to retire early. My choice, not their choice. Good luck to you.

Dude the number used in my examples and saying all Rx were going to CVS were fabricated to prove my point. It doesn't matter if it's 1 Rx or ALL Rxs either way I have a very high number of CVSs in my territory AND I am generating more Rxs than my competition based off of the sales data. It so simple and basic its hard for me to understand how someone cannot understand what I am saying even on here. Then I tell myself I am on CP and that explains everything.

 

[Anonymous]

Federal Regulations will soon prohibit the collection and dissemination of prescription data for profit.

Costco, Walmart, Target and several other medium sized pharmacy chains already DO NOT report data. And CVS is ending their contract now.

IMS is grasping for air but the writing is on the wall.

 

[Anonymous]

No, most likely it will not affect your market share much, but if you are paid on VOLUME instead of SHARE, there will definitely be an effect.

Every script NVS expected you to get based on history through that CVS won't be captured now. Do you think NVS will adjust our VOLUME goals? I doubt it... They know most reps won't catch it and the ones who could do something about it just don't care.

 

[Anonymous]

No, most likely it will not affect your market share much, but if you are paid on VOLUME instead of SHARE, there will definitely be an effect.

Every script NVS expected you to get based on history through that CVS won't be captured now. Do you think NVS will adjust our VOLUME goals? I doubt it... They know most reps won't catch it and the ones who could do something about it just don't care.

CVS is not coming back!

Researcher Renews CVS Fight Over Prescription Data

Law360, New York (April 28, 2011) -- IMS Health Inc. has renewed its claims against CVS Caremark Corp. for allegedly breaching contracts to provide the market research firm with prescription data, according to a lawsuit unsealed Wednesday in Delaware.

CVS, the largest prescription provider in the U.S., has not lived up to a settlement of previous litigation reached in March between the two companies whereby CVS agreed to resume supplying the data, “thus necessitating this follow-on action,” IMS said in a heavily redacted complaint originally filed April 15.

The original suit, filed in February, said CVS was bound by three separate contracts to provide the data, without which IMS did not have a representative sample of the prescription market on which to base its research. The companies entered into an undisclosed settlement agreement and related reinstatement agreement March 7 and the lawsuit was dismissed, according to court documents.

“IMS has made repeated attempts, without success, to persuade defendants to honor their obligations and to avoid further litigation,” the complaint said.

Norwalk, Conn.-based IMS uses the prescription data to create reports that are vital to drug recall programs, academic and medical researchers, law enforcement authorities, health agencies and pharmaceutical distributors, according to the suit.

The data compiled by IMS for its reports on individual prescription sales include information about the prescriber; the dosage and quantity of the product; the cost of the drug and who paid for it; and the age and gender of the patient, though names are not disclosed. The firm also compiles information on the wholesale purchases made by the pharmacy itself, according to the complaint.

The lawsuit seeks specific performance under the settlement agreement and damages.

David R. Marriott of Cravath Swaine & Moore LLP, an attorney for IMS, said at a Feb. 14 hearing that IMS’s competitors were attempting to take advantage of the hole in its research, contacting the firm’s customers to provide replacement data, according to a transcript of the proceeding.

“We need the data. We can’t get the data from anywhere else. And we have a contractual right to the data, period,” William M. Lafferty of Morris Nichols Arsht & Tunnell LLP, another IMS attorney, said at the hearing.

A representative for CVS did not immediately respond to a request for comment Wednesday.

Founded in 1954, IMS is “the world’s leading provider of information, research, and analysis to the pharmaceutical and healthcare industries, with data collection and reporting activities in more than 100 countries,” according to the complaint.

CVS is one of the country's largest pharmacy benefits managers, with a network of more than 64,000 pharmacies.

CVS is represented by Gregory V. Varallo and Scott W. Perkins of Richards Layton & Finger PA and Foley & Lardner LLP is of counsel.

IMS is represented by Leslie A. Polizoti and William M. Lafferty of Morris Nichols Arsht & Tunnell LLP and Cravath Swaine & Moore LLP is of counsel.

The current case is IMS Health Inc. v. CVS Pharmacy Inc. et al., case number 6388, in the Delaware Court of Chancery.

The settled case is IMS Health Inc. v. Caremark LLC et al., case number 6174, in the same court.

--Editing by Eydie Cubarrubia.

 

[Anonymous]

Dude the number used in my examples and saying all Rx were going to CVS were fabricated to prove my point. It doesn't matter if it's 1 Rx or ALL Rxs either way I have a very high number of CVSs in my territory AND I am generating more Rxs than my competition based off of the sales data. It so simple and basic its hard for me to understand how someone cannot understand what I am saying even on here. Then I tell myself I am on CP and that explains everything.

Also, not every territory in the nation has equal numbers of cvs. Not every drug is market share based bonus. Some of us have rx's per territory regardless of competition. So the parts of the country with more reporting pharmacies will win at every turn. Also, with CVS being the largest in the northease, they are more likely to have new drugs stocked vs rite aid.