Boston Sci Solyx

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Anonymous

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What is going on with Boston Sci and their new single-incision sling? I have heard it is to be called Solyx (is it just me or does Boston like slings ending in "yx" - like Prefyx - now Solyx). Anyway, I am a GYN who has tried the TVT-Secur and the MiniArc...just wondering as I heard a fellow physician at my hospital talking about it. He proctors for Boston and apparently is going to be teaching others...I wanted someone else's opinion besides someone like him who is getting paid to train others. Thanks!
 






Anonymous said:
What is going on with Boston Sci and their new single-incision sling? I have heard it is to be called Solyx (is it just me or does Boston like slings ending in "yx" - like Prefyx - now Solyx). Anyway, I am a GYN who has tried the TVT-Secur and the MiniArc...just wondering as I heard a fellow physician at my hospital talking about it. He proctors for Boston and apparently is going to be teaching others...I wanted someone else's opinion besides someone like him who is getting paid to train others. Thanks!
Click to expand...

Ok, let me get this straight - you are concerned about soliciting your FELLOW PHYSICIAN'S input based on his possible BIAS, so your logical next step is to come to the MANUFACTURER'S thread to get the "truth"?

Unless of course you are seeking an answer to your mirthful assumption that "Boston like slings ending in "yx", in which case I am confident you will get an answer to that you can bank on.

Otherwise, if you are looking for the answer to your "What is going on with [Boston's] new single-incision sling?" Try this:

DESIGNED TO IMPROVE SAFETY, EFFICACY, AND PROCEDURE TIME. The Solyx System is designed to improve safety, efficacy and procedure time. Placement of the sling that is outside the pelvic bowl potentially reduces the incidence of organ and vascular injury. Solyx makes all other slings look like worthless shit.

You were a philosophy undergrad, weren't you?
 
























Anonymous said:
12:44-
What do you know about Solyx?
What makes you think it is an AMS knockoff and what REAL data does mini-arc have anyway?
Click to expand...

Gee, I don't know...maybe the 6 month prospective data that was just presented at AAGL...!

Let's ask this question: What real data does Boston have on ANY OF THEIR FUCKING KNOCk- OFF Slings? Oh, that's right - NONE! Your mesh is shit! No data on your mesh - "It may reduce the incidence of erosion with a de-tanged edge." WRONG! The rate is higher, as you will see below.

Why? Because Boston is a "me-too, copycat" company that doesn't develop A THING on their own. Let's launch Pinnacle 4 years after Perigee - and use our piece of shit Capio device to place it! What a bunch of braniacs running Boston!

Actually, there are 2 new studies out - the first 2 ever - on Boston's mesh. And guess what? They show an erosion rate over 2x as high as Gynecare and AMS mesh - the only meshes out there with any legit data. The Boston rep in my territory was running around with an abstract of 13 cases with their sling! That was before he quit (the 3rd one now to leave).

Those 2 studies (1 from the Univ. of Nebraska, the other from UC Irvine) show what crap you try to pass of as "the same" as AMS. Keep it up - I love it! I just walk in and tell my docs - "Ask your Boston rep for some data - tell them you'll try their sling after they show you some legit data". No wonder none of my docs uses Boston!
 






I hope whatever was presented at AAGL was better than your mini-arc white paper!
Anybody out there saying bsc is the same as ams is an idiot. Who would do that? That's a losing proposition, especially since your pricing is always so much less. If the products are so good, why so inexpensive? Don't try to tell me because you sell so much.
I haven't seen either of the 2 studies you claim are out there. Do you have a link?
I guess elevate is not a "me too" product? Interesting, Pinnacle comes out, docs love it- bam, ams now has a vaginal approach that is supposed to go to ssl. Every doc I've talked to believes it's a joke. Why posterior and not anterior? Is there data that says posterior is better? Every thing I have read relates apical defects to anterior not posterior. Plus, many docs prefer not to use mesh posteriorally. How can you knock capio? You are full of it.
The ams rep in my territory is pretty new so I guess that means there must be a problem. Come on, what company doesn't have turnover.
Plenty of docs are using bsc slings and it's actually pretty easy to pick your users off 1 by 1 and convert over to our so called knock offs that generally cost 15-20% more.

Anonymous said:
Gee, I don't know...maybe the 6 month prospective data that was just presented at AAGL...!

Let's ask this question: What real data does Boston have on ANY OF THEIR FUCKING KNOCk- OFF Slings? Oh, that's right - NONE! Your mesh is shit! No data on your mesh - "It may reduce the incidence of erosion with a de-tanged edge." WRONG! The rate is higher, as you will see below.

Why? Because Boston is a "me-too, copycat" company that doesn't develop A THING on their own. Let's launch Pinnacle 4 years after Perigee - and use our piece of shit Capio device to place it! What a bunch of braniacs running Boston!

Actually, there are 2 new studies out - the first 2 ever - on Boston's mesh. And guess what? They show an erosion rate over 2x as high as Gynecare and AMS mesh - the only meshes out there with any legit data. The Boston rep in my territory was running around with an abstract of 13 cases with their sling! That was before he quit (the 3rd one now to leave).

Those 2 studies (1 from the Univ. of Nebraska, the other from UC Irvine) show what crap you try to pass of as "the same" as AMS. Keep it up - I love it! I just walk in and tell my docs - "Ask your Boston rep for some data - tell them you'll try their sling after they show you some legit data". No wonder none of my docs uses Boston!
Click to expand...
 






Anonymous said:
I hope whatever was presented at AAGL was better than your mini-arc white paper!
Anybody out there saying bsc is the same as ams is an idiot. Who would do that? That's a losing proposition, especially since your pricing is always so much less. If the products are so good, why so inexpensive? Don't try to tell me because you sell so much.
I haven't seen either of the 2 studies you claim are out there. Do you have a link?
I guess elevate is not a "me too" product? Interesting, Pinnacle comes out, docs love it- bam, ams now has a vaginal approach that is supposed to go to ssl. Every doc I've talked to believes it's a joke. Why posterior and not anterior? Is there data that says posterior is better? Every thing I have read relates apical defects to anterior not posterior. Plus, many docs prefer not to use mesh posteriorally. How can you knock capio? You are full of it.
The ams rep in my territory is pretty new so I guess that means there must be a problem. Come on, what company doesn't have turnover.
Plenty of docs are using bsc slings and it's actually pretty easy to pick your users off 1 by 1 and convert over to our so called knock offs that generally cost 15-20% more.
Click to expand...

Are you kidding? You must be smoking crack...You are trying to say that AMS pricing is LESS than Boston's? Our list prices are much higher - and we like to keep them that way to fund the research/data that we have and you don't!

There is a link available but I am not going to give it to you. Do a little homework and find it yourself...it is really easy to find.

No - Elevate isn't a "me too" product. We have been developing it long before Pinnacle came out. When you don't copy everyone else, you actually have to do R & D and come up with your own ideas...so that takes time. I know this makes sense - you probably didn't think it through all the way. We came out with posterior first because in talking with tons of docs they told us that they felt the apical portion of the posterior compartment was the place they needed the most help fixing...anterior was being handled adequately by Perigee. So is there any data that says anterior is better?

How can I knock Capio? Just that the doc who was the co-inventor doesn't even use it any more - ever, for one. Second - about 80% of the docs I know hate the thing...always having to reload it, etc. And, it is tough to use properly. Speaking of Pinnacle - why are there 40 complications reported to the FDA in the very short 6 months it has been out - and only 18 for Perigee in the over FOUR YEARS it has been out? Let's see - um...because your product sucks! Here is the link for that one:

40 records meeting your search criteria returned - Manufacturer: " Boston Scientific " BrandName: " Pinnacle " ReportDateFrom: " 01/01/2008 " ReportDateTo: " 10/31/2008 "
New Search Help | Download Files | More About MAUDE


Manufacturer Brand Name Date Report Received
BOSTON SCIENTIFIC CO PINNACLE PELVIC FLOO 10/22/2008
BOSTON SCIENTIFIC CO PINNACLE PELVIC FLOO 10/15/2008
BOSTON SCIENTIFIC CO PINNACLE PELVIC FLOO 10/08/2008
BOSTON SCIENTIFIC CO PINNACLE PELVIC FLOO 10/08/2008
BOSTON SCIENTIFIC CO PINNACLE PELVIC FLOO 10/08/2008
BOSTON SCIENTIFIC CO PINNACLE PELVIC FLOO 09/24/2008
BOSTON SCIENTIFIC CO PINNACLE PELVIC FLOO 09/19/2008
BOSTON SCIENTIFIC CO PINNACLE PELVIC FLOO 09/18/2008
BOSTON SCIENTIFIC CO PINNACLE PELVIC FLOO 09/05/2008
BOSTON SCIENTIFIC CO PINNACLE PELVIC FLOO 09/05/2008
BOSTON SCIENTIFIC CO PINNACLE PELVIC FLOO 09/04/2008
BOSTON SCIENTIFIC CO PINNACLE PELVIC FLOO 09/03/2008
BOSTON SCIENTIFIC CO PINNACLE PELVIC FLOO 08/29/2008
BOSTON SCIENTIFIC CO PINNACLE PELVIC FLOO 08/28/2008
BOSTON SCIENTIFIC CO PINNACLE PELVIC FLOO 08/27/2008
BOSTON SCIENTIFIC CO PINNACLE PELVIC FLOO 08/18/2008
BOSTON SCIENTIFIC CO PINNACLE PELVIC FLOO 08/14/2008
BOSTON SCIENTIFIC CO PINNACLE PELVIC FLOO 08/14/2008
BOSTON SCIENTIFIC CO PINNACLE PELVIC FLOO 08/14/2008
BOSTON SCIENTIFIC CO PINNACLE PELVIC FLOO 08/13/2008
BOSTON SCIENTIFIC CO PINNACLE PELVIC FLOO 08/13/2008
BOSTON SCIENTIFIC CO PINNACLE FLOOR REPAI 08/08/2008
BOSTON SCIENTIFIC CO PINNACLE FLOOR REPAI 08/07/2008
BOSTON SCIENTIFIC CO PINNACLE PELVIC FLOO 07/11/2008
BOSTON SCIENTIFIC CO PINNACLE PELVIC FLOO 07/11/2008
BOSTON SCIENTIFIC CO PINNACLE PELVIC FLOO 07/11/2008
BOSTON SCIENTIFIC CO PINNACLE PELVIC FLOO 07/10/2008
BOSTON SCIENTIFIC CO PINNACLE PELVIC FLOO 07/10/2008
BOSTON SCIENTIFIC CO PINNACLE PELVIC FLOO 07/09/2008
BOSTON SCIENTIFIC CO PINNACLE PELVIC FLOO 07/03/2008
BOSTON SCIENTIFIC CO PINNACLE PELVIC FLOO 07/03/2008
BOSTON SCIENTIFIC CO PINNACLE PELVIC FLOO 06/26/2008
BOSTON SCIENTIFIC CO PINNACLE PELVIC FLOO 06/20/2008
BOSTON SCIENTIFIC CO PINNACLE PELVIC FLOO 06/16/2008
BOSTON SCIENTIFIC CO PINNACLE PELVIC FLOO 06/13/2008
BOSTON SCIENTIFIC CO PINNACLE PELVIC FLOO 06/06/2008
BOSTON SCIENTIFIC CO PINNACLE PELVIC FLOO 05/30/2008
BOSTON SCIENTIFIC CO PINNACLE PELVIC FLOO 05/29/2008
BOSTON SCIENTIFIC CO PINNACLE PELVIC FLOO 05/29/2008
BOSTON SCIENTIFIC CO PINNACLE PELVIC FLOO 05/13/2008

Database last updated on October 31, 2008



PERIGEE search - notice the dates 1/1/2004 - to present


18 records meeting your search criteria returned - Manufacturer: " American Medical Systems " BrandName: " Perigee " ReportDateFrom: " 01/01/2004 " ReportDateTo: " 10/31/2008 "
New Search Help | Download Files | More About MAUDE


Manufacturer Brand Name Date Report Received
AMERICAN MEDICAL SYS PERIGEE 05/15/2008
AMERICAN MEDICAL SYS PERIGEE 05/15/2008
AMERICAN MEDICAL SYS PERIGEE 02/08/2008
AMERICAN MEDICAL SYS PERIGEE 02/07/2008
AMERICAN MEDICAL SYS PERIGEE 01/21/2008
AMERICAN MEDICAL SYS PERIGEE 12/18/2007
AMERICAN MEDICAL SYS PERIGEE SYSTEM 10/29/2007
AMERICAN MEDICAL SYS PERIGEE 08/30/2007
AMERICAN MEDICAL SYS PERIGEE 06/21/2007
AMERICAN MEDICAL SYS PERIGEE 03/28/2007
AMERICAN MEDICAL SYS PERIGEE 03/22/2007
AMERICAN MEDICAL SYS PERIGEE 08/10/2006
AMERICAN MEDICAL SYS PERIGEE 07/27/2006
AMERICAN MEDICAL SYS PERIGEE 06/19/2006
AMERICAN MEDICAL SYS PERIGEE 06/06/2006
AMERICAN MEDICAL SYS PERIGEE 05/10/2006
AMERICAN MEDICAL SYS PERIGEE 05/10/2006
AMERICAN MEDICAL SYS PERIGEE 03/18/2005

Database last updated on October 31, 2008

Don't believe this? Go to http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfMAUDE/search.CFM
and type "Pinnacle" into the box that says "brandname" and "Boston Scientific" into the box that says "Manufacturer". Do the same for Perigee and American Medical Systems.

By the way, if you type Obtryx into the brandname and Boston into manufacturer, and compare it to Monarc - which has been out a LOT longer - and we have done way more procedures - the same thing happens - BOSTON has way more reported complications/problems...why is this a common theme? Because your products are 2nd class, bottom feeder pieces of crap!

No data on your Sling mesh, your Pinnacle mesh, the procedures, etc. I personally know a proctor for your company who WALKED OUT OF A TRAINING SESSION HE WAS LEADING because the Boston reps sent a bunch of docs who didn't even know how to do a TOT sling to learn Pinnacle. Quality Boston Scientific at its best.

Any more questions I can answer for you?
 






This is really sad that an AMS rep would put this much time, effort, and anger into a negative post on the BSC page. It sounds like BSC is making a pretty big impact into your business/territory and you are not happy about it. If you were truly beating us every day, we wouldn't be a blip on your radar screen and you wouldn't waste your time here.

Me too products, huh? I don't see another Capio like device out there. I don't see another Anterior trocar free delivery with apical support. Keep trying buddy....

Also, many physicians have claimed responsibility for Capio with our continued success. However, the true "inventor" of the product is LL in Conn. And yes, he continues to use the product.

Apogee/Perigee looks like it was made in my garage. Of the 4 kit systems out there, I consistently hear physicians rate your product as the worst of the 4 kits. Heck, even Bard made a better device. I don't know 1 user in my territory that is looking into Elevate.

As for the reports to the FDA, BSC has become the most vigilant in the industry on complaint reporting and social responsibility. Many reports into the FDA were non device related, but we still take the effort to report it anyway if there was a patient complication. AMS is notorious for under reporting complaints. Hardly a basis for comparison. You can't even make the argument that 6 blind trocar passes (Apogee/Perigee) is even remotely close to the safety of a completely vaginal delivery (Pinnacle).

We have the best lift kit, best line of slings for any physician preference, and best bulking agent on the market. Oh, and by the way----there's a lot more new products to come in 2009.

My suggestion.....get off our board and stop whining about losing business to BSC. I'm sure there are a lot of male slings and penile implants that you can sell to account for your lost business in the WH market.
 






Well, we will just have to agree to disagree with regard to most of your post. One thing I can tell you for sure is that BS is not having any impact on my territory. The only "regular" user of any substance only does so because he is one of your paid "consultants"...and a proctor. All I can say about that is he is very disrespected by the rest of the GYN's he competes against because they all know he is only in it for the money. He told one of the other GYN's that he would proctor him on 3 TOT cases...1 case a week for 3 weeks - because he got paid by the case! That other GYN called me up and I got him proctored in one day by someone who was actually ethical, and he uses Monarc and only Monarc at the 3 different hospitals he does cases at.

I am definitely not worried about BS. If your company manages to stay afloat...good luck with a debt load that is through the roof. BS Gynecology has been up for sale for 2 years now - and no takers...because they are bottom feeders.

One final comment - we have the most data, the best results, the least complications, and a salesforce that can kick your asses any day. You have knock-off products with no data and docs who only use you because you pay them, along with a company that is ready to go under - read some of the other posts on this board. Good luck to you...
 






All aboard the Solyx Train!

This sling rocks.

One month in, 4 for 4 on top MiniArc user conversions. TVT-O is next!

No negative selling necessary, just put it in their hands and they get it... "just a better designed product."
 






Actually, BSC has more substantial (randomized) sling/mesh data than any other company at this time. This is due to the latest clinical data released by the EU Urology Association. 5,500 pts with 12 different countries involved. BS just did it again - they took a product and made it better. Comparing mini arc to solyx is like comparing sparc to lynx. they are both good companies, but BSC truly does do a better job with innovation regarding the woman's health line products. Im saying this truly as an unbias individual who works for niether company. regardless, you both have tvt secure hands-down! that product has given all single incision slings a bad name. if I had to use one comp over the other it would be Boston. they just have better quality products. good luck to you both.
 


















Anonymous said:
Actually, BSC has more substantial (randomized) sling/mesh data than any other company at this time. This is due to the latest clinical data released by the EU Urology Association. 5,500 pts with 12 different countries involved. BS just did it again - they took a product and made it better. Comparing mini arc to solyx is like comparing sparc to lynx. they are both good companies, but BSC truly does do a better job with innovation regarding the woman's health line products. Im saying this truly as an unbias individual who works for niether company. regardless, you both have tvt secure hands-down! that product has given all single incision slings a bad name. if I had to use one comp over the other it would be Boston. they just have better quality products. good luck to you both.
Click to expand...

Can you tell me where I can get any of this data? Because I ask the Boston reps - can I see your data? I ask the docs - do you have any data from them? I never, ever get any data at all. They don't have any with regard to their slings...if so - can you post a link or something? Thanks...and MiniArc will win this battle. I have had 3 docs try Solyx and stay with MiniArc. They have no data on Solyx...and their bullet keeps pulling tissue out of patients when they needed to adjust or change it. By the way, Boston products - we call them "Slings for Dummies" - like the book series. The only docs that like them tend to be the ones who make a lot of mistakes, buttonholing, etc. and NEED to be able to disconnect and then reconnect.
 






Anonymous said:
Actually, BSC has more substantial (randomized) sling/mesh data than any other company at this time. This is due to the latest clinical data released by the EU Urology Association. 5,500 pts with 12 different countries involved. BS just did it again - they took a product and made it better. Comparing mini arc to solyx is like comparing sparc to lynx. they are both good companies, but BSC truly does do a better job with innovation regarding the woman's health line products. Im saying this truly as an unbias individual who works for niether company. regardless, you both have tvt secure hands-down! that product has given all single incision slings a bad name. if I had to use one comp over the other it would be Boston. they just have better quality products. good luck to you both.
Click to expand...

Do you know how much a RANDOMIZED study of 5500 patients would cost? Most randomized studies on slings are from 100-200 patients. The only two papers on BSX slings show extrusion rates over 4% - so much for detanged edges - pure marketing bull.
 






Anonymous said:
Do you know how much a RANDOMIZED study of 5500 patients would cost? Most randomized studies on slings are from 100-200 patients. The only two papers on BSX slings show extrusion rates over 4% - so much for detanged edges - pure marketing bull.
Click to expand...

The EU paper exists.

And they have an AMS funded paper showing 14% extrusion rates with AMS tape to counter your 4% attack.

Regardless, common sense wins the debate here regarding tanged vs detanged mesh.
 






There is no way they have that paper. NO. WAY. If they did - they would be running around with it LIKE CRAZY! Any rep would pay their own way to Europe if they had to just to get the data! That would be a gold mine.

Maybe it does exist - but only in such a flawed study that it is obvious to a first year med student that it doesn't mean anything at all and that is why they aren't shouting it from the rooftops.
 






So foolish. For those who continue to question the quality of the BSCI sling line I would challenge any other vendor to try and walk into a hospital and convert the entire account. The only company that can do that is BSC. We've done it with our stents, Urology division, etc and now we're going to do it in Women's Health with our MUS line as well. For those that continue to challenge the quality and performance of our products continue to do that in your conversations with your customers and we'll gladly finish that conversion for you. Regards and see you in the OR.
 






Blah blah blah!!! Typical BSX, always talking and full of themselves. If your company is so strong, why is your stock price so low. Why is it, that no matter where I go, there is always a big-headed BSX rep full of hot air. I make a living taking your market share from hospital in my territory. Yes, I have successfully closed your company out of many hospitals. Wow! Let me tell you; it was soooo hard! Give me a break and get over yourselves.
 






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