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Attention AZ management: "Fine" doesn't mean OK

Anonymous

Guest
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-0311-astrazeneca-settlement-20110311,0,4119624.story?track=rss

I guess since the states took the money AZ can continue operating under the pretext that they did no wrong. And the fact that the AZ is currently operating under another Corporate Integrity Agreement doesn't matter either, because AZ didn't admit any wrong (but they just shelled out over 50 million dollars US to settle up. Nice stewardship of shareholder assets.)

Reminds me of the tobacco companies. The government is corrupt in this too -- the People shouldn't allow companies to pay fines and go away. The People should have more integrity than that. They (we) don't.
 




I have sold seroquel since launch, I have never asked a doc to prescribe off label. Never hid side effects and I am DAMN tired of people like you saying I did.

Have some people done that? I am sure there has been as there is corruption in every walk of life. But Damn it speak for yourself. I am proud of the job I have done and proud to represent a quality product. So fuck off you troll.
 








I concur. Very proud of how how I sold/sell Seroquel and now XR.

It's not just that you sold off label, it's who you sold Seroquel to. You called on child psychiatrists and the VA which prescribed Seroquel for children and veterans with PTSD. You promoted a product that was largely used for anxiety and sleep in the general population. Anyone who sold Seroquel from launch, myself included, was duped by marketing and management into off label promotion by association. We had small studies by Hamner on PTSD and the child studies by Del Bello. We promoted to the elderly as well without indication. And who can forget the monstrosity of Reinstein? He was talking about 2000 to 3000mg doses.

If you think you didn't promote off label then you didn't do your job effectively. Perhaps you weren't aware you were doing so but the stain affects us all. It's too late to be a whistleblower which is a shame because I have lots of documentation. Unfortunately the fines don't stop the bad behavior which is caused by greed.
 




I have sold seroquel since launch, I have never asked a doc to prescribe off label. Never hid side effects and I am DAMN tired of people like you saying I did.

Have some people done that? I am sure there has been as there is corruption in every walk of life. But Damn it speak for yourself. I am proud of the job I have done and proud to represent a quality product. So fuck off you troll.

Personally I don't think you did either, but predominately this comes from marketing direction and promotions. Have you read some of the inter office memos? Very interesting. The average sales rep was simply following direction.
 




AstraZeneca has settled another batch of Seroquel liability suits. The drugmaker agreed to pay $150 million to resolve about 6,000 cases claiming AZ knew Seroquel could cause diabetes but didn't adequately warn patients about that risk, sources tell Bloomberg. The deal brings the Seroquel settlement total to almost $350 million

Read more: AZ agrees to $150M Seroquel settlement - FiercePharma http://www.fiercepharma.com/story/az-agrees-150m-seroquel-settlement/2011-02-17#ixzz1GIq4QGFF
Subscribe: http://www.fiercepharma.com/signup?sourceform=Viral-Tynt-FiercePharma-FiercePharma




$350 million for diabetes claims and $520 million to the state of Pennsylvania. A billion in fines for a company that is concerned about patient welfare? I am not proud of the way we marketed and sold Seroquel.
 




Imagine if the money to pay those fines that was sucked out of the US's sick and elderly population was instead used to research malaria, a disease that kills over a million people every year. (Research by anyone other than a pharma company, so that it would have a chance of success.)
 




I have sold seroquel since launch, I have never asked a doc to prescribe off label. Never hid side effects and I am DAMN tired of people like you saying I did.

Have some people done that? I am sure there has been as there is corruption in every walk of life. But Damn it speak for yourself. I am proud of the job I have done and proud to represent a quality product. So fuck off you troll.

Yeah I bet you were really diligent too, making sure to inform the prescribers that Seroquel is not indicated as a sleep aid, etc. Right? PI on every call too. You're one of the good reps. Hell if there was a way for the company to take those off label Rxes out of the scripts you got credit for, you'd be in favor of doing just that, because you have integrity.

You wrote above you "never hid" the side effects. Did you point them out? And you never "asked a doctor to prescribe off label." Did you ask them not to? Did you warn all of them about weight gain and diabetes risk? I think there's some corruption in your activities that you're blind to, and you're acting all high and mighty because deep down, you know you're just as guilty as the rest of the reps.
 




AstraZeneca has settled another batch of Seroquel liability suits. The drugmaker agreed to pay $150 million to resolve about 6,000 cases claiming AZ knew Seroquel could cause diabetes but didn't adequately warn patients about that risk, sources tell Bloomberg. The deal brings the Seroquel settlement total to almost $350 million

Read more: AZ agrees to $150M Seroquel settlement - FiercePharma http://www.fiercepharma.com/story/az-agrees-150m-seroquel-settlement/2011-02-17#ixzz1GIq4QGFF
Subscribe: http://www.fiercepharma.com/signup?sourceform=Viral-Tynt-FiercePharma-FiercePharma




$350 million for diabetes claims and $520 million to the state of Pennsylvania. A billion in fines for a company that is concerned about patient welfare? I am not proud of the way we marketed and sold Seroquel.

Fines are another form of rebate to the government.

It keeps the wheels turning.
 








Yeah I bet you were really diligent too, making sure to inform the prescribers that Seroquel is not indicated as a sleep aid, etc. Right? PI on every call too. You're one of the good reps. Hell if there was a way for the company to take those off label Rxes out of the scripts you got credit for, you'd be in favor of doing just that, because you have integrity.

You wrote above you "never hid" the side effects. Did you point them out? And you never "asked a doctor to prescribe off label." Did you ask them not to? Did you warn all of them about weight gain and diabetes risk? I think there's some corruption in your activities that you're blind to, and you're acting all high and mighty because deep down, you know you're just as guilty as the rest of the reps.

I am high and mighty and would suggest you don't forget it. I have more initials behind my name than you can remember. Yes, anybody that gains more than 10% body weight is subject to metabolic syndrome and that includes diabetes. Off label selling is all bullshit. Reps have no control over what a doc uses and where. In fact you sound like a slimy attorney playing with semantics. If YOU had a chronically mentally ill child or parent YOU would want the docs using the best medication to treat the disease regardless if it had an indication or not. Now you are showing your ignorance of the medical field and the art of medicine. Corruption in my activities never my absolutism friend. Wait! I hear an ambulance, isn't it time for you to salivate and run to your next class action suit.
 




when i proactively brought up the possibility of weight gain and to screen for diabetes as normally would for patients at risk/borderline, i was told by my dsm not to bring it up. only address it if the dr brought it up. that was the sick direction given. also, numerous side effects rarely dicussed in calls that were done quickly or over lunch with dsm present with numerous reps. side effects lengthy and negative...why spend time on that? they are in the package insert leaving, so why get into them? not right.
 




If YOU had a chronically mentally ill child or parent YOU would want the docs using the best medication to treat the disease regardless if it had an indication or not.

That in itself is a completely off label statement. Do you third party that type of information to prescribers? Are you under the assumption that Seroquel is the best medication for children and that is why a physician should prescribe it for non indications? Are you drinking Koolaid by the gallon? That is the kind of thinking that got Seroquel in trouble in the first place.

As a parent I don't think I would want a physician to prescribe ANY off label product until all approved treatments were exhausted and only as a last resort. And only then after a long discussion and fully understanding what the risks to my child could be. How dare you suggest!
 




I sold Seroquel since launch. All seven of my managers were nod, nod, wink, wink about who we called on and what we said. They knew better but didn't care, the numbers and promotion were on their minds. My last regional manager didn't want us to write call notes. I had friends in marketing that saw off label direction from the likes of Dr. Jamie Mullen, a company paid hack who instrumented the off label promotion. There is much more, but the fines have been paid, the managers promoted, and AZ's stock continues to hover around $47 forever.

A company's culture comes from the top down. What do you have to say Mr. Brennan?
 




Rationalization and justification of illegal behavior doesn't make it right. One of my top child psychiatrists came up to me three years ago and said one thing we never talked about was how much weight gain Seroquel caused in kids. He had switched to Abilify at this point for many children, not because it is extremely effective (neither is Seroquel), but due to the negative effects of big weight gain in children. Having the right information, that is not glossed over is essential in deciding which product to use. We let doctors and patients down by saying that Seroquel was weight neutral which was a total lie. Plus, Seroquel is way over prescribed in children for many off label indications. This is not only a criticism of AZ's promotion of Seroquel but of psychiatrists themselves whose only remedy (which is how they bill) is to prescribe medication. I blame myself too.
 




You are spot on.

I remember when we used the Brewer (or was it Baker) reprint which was an 18 and a half month open label extension trial reprint to show that patients weight gain was minimal over time. Absolutely we were coached to say that Seroquel was weight neutral. It struck me as odd that weight gain was so much higher in the prescribing information and we were instructed to gloss past that and refer to the reprint and say; Doctor, but what is important is what happens over time.

Still, I believed that if we had the information there must have been some validation for it. That is, until the piece was pulled. Today I am much more skeptical. Marketing was perhaps a little too clever as we are now finding out.

Interestingly someone said recently that managers were instructed not to hire highly skeptical people. I wonder if anyone else has heard this. Telling if true.
 




That in itself is a completely off label statement. Do you third party that type of information to prescribers? Are you under the assumption that Seroquel is the best medication for children and that is why a physician should prescribe it for non indications? Are you drinking Koolaid by the gallon? That is the kind of thinking that got Seroquel in trouble in the first place.

As a parent I don't think I would want a physician to prescribe ANY off label product until all approved treatments were exhausted and only as a last resort. And only then after a long discussion and fully understanding what the risks to my child could be. How dare you suggest!

Are you smoking crack now? I didn't say seroquel for children or parents now did I? I said the best medication for disease. Third party information----well, every time you open your mouth in any conversation it is third party. Unless of course you have validated all of your thoughts as original and then proof sourced to make sure and then had your findings peer reviewed. Jeeees people, can you not think for yourselves? Can you not talk disease states and treatments with out prejudice and bias? Do your own research. How long did the studies last? Does the PI not say treatment past this end point needs to be reassessed? Did you know there is over 248 studies on seroquel listed with the FDA. Have you read any of them? I know this is the interweebs and you can say anything you want but really, get a grip.
 








It's not just that you sold off label, it's who you sold Seroquel to. You called on child psychiatrists and the VA which prescribed Seroquel for children and veterans with PTSD. You promoted a product that was largely used for anxiety and sleep in the general population. Anyone who sold Seroquel from launch, myself included, was duped by marketing and management into off label promotion by association. We had small studies by Hamner on PTSD and the child studies by Del Bello. We promoted to the elderly as well without indication. And who can forget the monstrosity of Reinstein? He was talking about 2000 to 3000mg doses.

If you think you didn't promote off label then you didn't do your job effectively. Perhaps you weren't aware you were doing so but the stain affects us all. It's too late to be a whistleblower which is a shame because I have lots of documentation. Unfortunately the fines don't stop the bad behavior which is caused by greed.

This is an oversimplification.

In the old days - where these fines largely originated - companies picked a specialty and called on all of them.

There was little targeting and no one ever considered the ramifications. It was call rate and educating psyches.

In the last 10 years everyone knows the ramifications and has adjusted to it.

Reinsdorf is old news - he was back in the 90's.

Rewriting history is a great thing for the government. It gives them another revenue stream.

In all my years I've never seen or been part of the conspiracies that we have been fined for.

Though when you look at the evidence, there is no doubt mistakes were made and are being paid for.

But cut the holier than thou shit.
 




This is an oversimplification.

In the old days - where these fines largely originated - companies picked a specialty and called on all of them. There was little targeting and no one ever considered the ramifications. It was call rate and educating psyches. In the last 10 years everyone knows the ramifications and has adjusted to it.

Reinsdorf is old news - he was back in the 90's. Rewriting history is a great thing for the government. It gives them another revenue stream. In all my years I've never seen or been part of the conspiracies that we have been fined for. Though when you look at the evidence, there is no doubt mistakes were made and are being paid for.

But cut the holier than thou shit.

If you were in CNS since launch you either had your head up your ass or you weren't paying attention. Here are the facts Jack. First we came out for manifestations of psychotic disorders. Generally speaking, we had an indication to treat schizophrenia. As Michael Hickey said, nobody thought Seroquel would do more than $300 million.

But sheezam and surprise, the doctors started using it as a sedative and an anxiolytic because it works pretty well in that department. Then we targeted the elderly, just like Eli Lilly. I remember because one of my responsibilities was to call on state geriatric facilities. We did great there, nobody sundowned because they were so sedated they couldn't move, the staff loved Seroquel. Then we took Hamner's worthless study of 13 or so patients, I can't remember but I do believe it was less than 20, and went after the VA's, targeting patients with PTSD. I know, I helped target the VISN's in my region. Then on to targeting children, we had a wonder drug with no side effects! Morally, there was no reason to use any other drug because of the EPS and weight loss. Then we targeted bipolar disorder before we received an indication for it. No targeting?

At the time, all I cared about was making bonus and selling more of this wonder drug. I actually believed it had few side effects but was starting to get feedback and have some doubts about its efficacy and side effects. It wasn't until several years ago that I told my manager that I would no longer call on child psychiatrists and went so far as to caution all of them about weight gain. Many had already slowed down considerably in their use of Seroquel, for good reason.

Oversimplification? Well, how much can you put in four or five paragraphs? It's a fact that we promoted off label, illegally, and with intent. AZ has been on Corporate Integrity Agreements the entire time I have worked for them. Oh, and it's Reinstein, not Reinsdorf. He was in the early 2000s, up until about 2004 which makes me doubt you ever worked for CNS and makes it obvious you know nothing about its history. The huge fines have been paid and there will be more paid out, it is ongoing. So it ain't ancient history ass breather, read Fierce Pharma. You obviously have no clue what you are talking about. The history is as plain as your ignorant face, and AZ's big revenue stream is about to be cut off by generic Seroquel.