Would you jump to another CSO?

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anonymous

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I’m working at a CSO, but getting tired of some of the policies, etc. I’m thinking about moving elsewhere. I’d rather a big pharma gig, but nothing is open in my area. There is some hiring at another CSO, would it make sense to jump? Are they all the same with the bs ?
 






I have been with Iqvia for 5 years on the first contract which was cut back and now 4 months on another contract. It has been a pleasant experience. Normal bureaucratic nonsense you see at all companies, which is expected.I have had wonderful Managers with Iqvia. Which makes all the difference.
 






Glad to hear it! I was a DSM on a couple of contracts back in the late 90's with Innovex . . . . . Novartis and GW (before the SK merger). Loved most every minute of it.
 






anonymous said:
Glad to hear it! I was a DSM on a couple of contracts back in the late 90's with Innovex . . . . . Novartis and GW (before the SK merger). Loved most every minute of it.
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This is 21st century contract sales and your experience is not the norm these days. Most do not share your experience and cannot relate to it.
 


















anonymous said:
How so?
Thanks.
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Where do we begin? Your statements are indicative of someone who has been out of touch with the pharma industry for a very long time. As the industry continues it's decline (pharma sales continues to go the way of the dinosaur as the industry moves to a digital marketing business model), here are some of the major factors that have negatively impacted the job, and experience, of the typical pharma rep (note that you may have experienced some of this in years past, but it is much worse today): 1. Poor access to providers (your customers don't want to see you and have created policies that make seeing them very difficult or impossible), 2. Micromanagement (monitored, tracked, busy work/reports, etc. - lack of autonomy), 3. Bad management and/or negative company culture (pervasive in an industry where sociopathy is often rewarded and celebrated - many managers and many of your colleagues exhibit sociopathic personality traits), 4. Stress (refer to factors previously stated, plus unrealistic sales goals), 5. Lack of respect (pharma reps often get no respect from the general public, providers, and office staff), 6. No job stability (the average rep will be changing jobs once every two years on average - contracts end abruptly and often sooner than expected, layoffs occur frequently with manufacturers, and bad managers frequently target reps in their districts/regions to put on PIPs, make miserable, and force out). Once out, it typically takes months to land another gig that is likely to only last 12-24 months, and if you're over the age of 45 it may take longer or become impossible.

If you are a contract rep, expect the above to apply even more so than if you're a rep employed by a manufacturer. Job insecurity is built into the contract model, and contract reps are still considered low-status in the industry, a reputation that is not deserved as many contract reps are hard-working, intelligent, driven people who have worked for manufacturer's in the past, are experienced, and have achieved excellent results. Also, contract reps tend to receive lower compensation vs their manufacturer counterparts and generally no severance when the contract ends - another insult to the contract rep. There are still newbies who are hungry to work in the industry, and there are more displaced experienced reps than ever who want to continue to ride the roller-coaster ride, so CSO's have no problem finding candidates willing to volunteer for the painful employment opportunities they offer. In summary, yes, things have changed and this isn't the industry of the 1990s or early 2000's. This is the typical reality of the pharma rep experience in 2022.
 






anonymous said:
Where do we begin? Your statements are indicative of someone who has been out of touch with the pharma industry for a very long time. As the industry continues it's decline (pharma sales continues to go the way of the dinosaur as the industry moves to a digital marketing business model), here are some of the major factors that have negatively impacted the job, and experience, of the typical pharma rep (note that you may have experienced some of this in years past, but it is much worse today): 1. Poor access to providers (your customers don't want to see you and have created policies that make seeing them very difficult or impossible), 2. Micromanagement (monitored, tracked, busy work/reports, etc. - lack of autonomy), 3. Bad management and/or negative company culture (pervasive in an industry where sociopathy is often rewarded and celebrated - many managers and many of your colleagues exhibit sociopathic personality traits), 4. Stress (refer to factors previously stated, plus unrealistic sales goals), 5. Lack of respect (pharma reps often get no respect from the general public, providers, and office staff), 6. No job stability (the average rep will be changing jobs once every two years on average - contracts end abruptly and often sooner than expected, layoffs occur frequently with manufacturers, and bad managers frequently target reps in their districts/regions to put on PIPs, make miserable, and force out). Once out, it typically takes months to land another gig that is likely to only last 12-24 months, and if you're over the age of 45 it may take longer or become impossible.

If you are a contract rep, expect the above to apply even more so than if you're a rep employed by a manufacturer. Job insecurity is built into the contract model, and contract reps are still considered low-status in the industry, a reputation that is not deserved as many contract reps are hard-working, intelligent, driven people who have worked for manufacturer's in the past, are experienced, and have achieved excellent results. Also, contract reps tend to receive lower compensation vs their manufacturer counterparts and generally no severance when the contract ends - another insult to the contract rep. There are still newbies who are hungry to work in the industry, and there are more displaced experienced reps than ever who want to continue to ride the roller-coaster ride, so CSO's have no problem finding candidates willing to volunteer for the painful employment opportunities they offer. In summary, yes, things have changed and this isn't the industry of the 1990s or early 2000's. This is the typical reality of the pharma rep experience in 2022.
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One of the best posts ever

Thank you for your insight.
 






Contract, a long time ago was where experienced reps close or retired would go to put in a few more years to get out of the house. The were mainly “support” “extra calls” w/ No responsibility for manufacture numbers and did NOT report to a manufacture DM. The gladly did it for half pay since there was no extra strings attached. They were great jobs, low pressure and just go out and make the calls. That is LONG gone!! Some where the contract rep was SOLD OUT and given all the responsibility of the manufacture rep. Not only that they became the “Training Dummy” of the manufacture Reps and DM. Most of the contract reps used to have vast majority of experience over the manufacture personnel and just enjoyed making calls. Once the Manufature took over it ruined the contract job completely. There is no sense being one if you are not making equal what a manufacture rep makes. Not worth the trouble and pain of working w/ insecure manufacture reps and managers.
 






Contract, a long time ago was where experienced reps close or retired would go to put in a few more years to get out of the house. The were mainly “support” “extra calls” w/ No responsibility for manufacture numbers and did NOT report to a manufacture DM. The gladly did it for half pay since there was no extra strings attached. They were great jobs, low pressure and just go out and make the calls. That is LONG gone!! Some where the contract rep was SOLD OUT and given all the responsibility of the manufacture rep. Not only that they became the “Training Dummy” of the manufacture Reps and DM. Most of the contract reps used to have vast majority of experience over the manufacture personnel and just enjoyed making calls. Once the Manufature took over it ruined the contract job completely. There is no sense being one if you are not making equal what a manufacture rep makes. Not worth the trouble and pain of working w/ insecure manufacture reps and managers.
 






anonymous said:
Contract, a long time ago was where experienced reps close or retired would go to put in a few more years to get out of the house. The were mainly “support” “extra calls” w/ No responsibility for manufacture numbers and did NOT report to a manufacture DM. The gladly did it for half pay since there was no extra strings attached. They were great jobs, low pressure and just go out and make the calls. That is LONG gone!! Some where the contract rep was SOLD OUT and given all the responsibility of the manufacture rep. Not only that they became the “Training Dummy” of the manufacture Reps and DM. Most of the contract reps used to have vast majority of experience over the manufacture personnel and just enjoyed making calls. Once the Manufature took over it ruined the contract job completely. There is no sense being one if you are not making equal what a manufacture rep makes. Not worth the trouble and pain of working w/ insecure manufacture reps and managers.
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Yes sir.

It's just a transactional job at this point too.

I miss the days of true career development in this industry.
 












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