Why does it take....

Quote


















That's really all a Forest rep is concerned about is getting 7.5 signatures out of their 9-10 calls for the day. This keeps their district managers off their case. You can't blame the reps. it's the way their management treats their reps. The whole sales strategy is based on that very important sales indicator - the almighty signature. So many of these Forest reps will wait 20+ minutes ( and will often become agitated if it takes longer than that...) just to leave one box in the already high pile of the one box signature drop their counterparts already left. Forest is primarily about the numbers looking good without regard to the truly important aspects of selling. Forest has some good products and ,unbelievably, focuses on a signature on a computer screen.

I know that the management at Forest have a whole lecture on the fact that the signature buys some time to detail while the physician signs the computer screen. PLEASE. If you are only getting time with a physician because he/she is stopping to quickly sign your signature line then you have missed the point of every true selling approach ever taught.

Believe me, medical offices everywhere can see the game that Forest reps (along with a few other companies) play in getting the the "holy grail" of their typical workday -the signature.

And your office will be teeming with Forest reps regularly if you have multiple target physicians available to sign in a short time period. Forest reps plan their days around the ratio of "Number of Targets available in an office : Time it takes to get all their signatures."

An attractive office is one where you can stand in a hallway or in a patient room and get multiple signatures in a short time. Just watch them. It's obvious - that is their game.

Somehow I guess it must work for Forest. I just cannot imagine that it is fulfilling for a Forest rep to have everything revolve around having someone sign for one box of samples.

If Forest thinks that this whole signature seeking effort is lost on the very customers they seek to build trust and develop relationships with, they are mistaken. It irritates staff and doctors alike. Sure, some will play the game. Some Forest reps are liked on a personal level by our staff. But for most offices, it shows that Forest really doesn't hold them and their patients in very high regard.

To the office staff and the physician/HCP staff in many places it just looks ridiculous. We play the game with you Forest reps and we like many of you but we secretly do not respect you. We know it isn't your fault but it really looks ridiculous to those watching you seek signatures above all else.
 












Anonymous said:
You are kidding, you have a second rate drug, second rate marketing and low end reps, why would BI get nervous ...look at the success or lack there of, of your most recent launches, tells the whole story.
Click to expand...

Hmmm last time BI and Forest went at it was in the ARB market. How did Benicar do vs Micardis? Your 'once a day' battle cry with your much more expensive Spiriva will go just as well as your 24 hr Micardis half life did. Haha
 
























Anonymous said:
That's really all a Forest rep is concerned about is getting 7.5 signatures out of their 9-10 calls for the day. This keeps their district managers off their case. You can't blame the reps. it's the way their management treats their reps. The whole sales strategy is based on that very important sales indicator - the almighty signature. So many of these Forest reps will wait 20+ minutes ( and will often become agitated if it takes longer than that...) just to leave one box in the already high pile of the one box signature drop their counterparts already left. Forest is primarily about the numbers looking good without regard to the truly important aspects of selling. Forest has some good products and ,unbelievably, focuses on a signature on a computer screen.

I know that the management at Forest have a whole lecture on the fact that the signature buys some time to detail while the physician signs the computer screen. PLEASE. If you are only getting time with a physician because he/she is stopping to quickly sign your signature line then you have missed the point of every true selling approach ever taught.

Believe me, medical offices everywhere can see the game that Forest reps (along with a few other companies) play in getting the the "holy grail" of their typical workday -the signature.

And your office will be teeming with Forest reps regularly if you have multiple target physicians available to sign in a short time period. Forest reps plan their days around the ratio of "Number of Targets available in an office : Time it takes to get all their signatures."

An attractive office is one where you can stand in a hallway or in a patient room and get multiple signatures in a short time. Just watch them. It's obvious - that is their game.

Somehow I guess it must work for Forest. I just cannot imagine that it is fulfilling for a Forest rep to have everything revolve around having someone sign for one box of samples.

If Forest thinks that this whole signature seeking effort is lost on the very customers they seek to build trust and develop relationships with, they are mistaken. It irritates staff and doctors alike. Sure, some will play the game. Some Forest reps are liked on a personal level by our staff. But for most offices, it shows that Forest really doesn't hold them and their patients in very high regard.

To the office staff and the physician/HCP staff in many places it just looks ridiculous. We play the game with you Forest reps and we like many of you but we secretly do not respect you. We know it isn't your fault but it really looks ridiculous to those watching you seek signatures above all else.
Click to expand...

Blah, Blah, Blah.. Not sure why you spend so much time on the Forest CP board, but since you are so interested in us, here are a few fact you should know about the company.
1. Launched 5 drugs in the past 18 months.
2. Will be launching 2 new drugs per year for the next 4 years.
3. One of the best profit sharing and stock option programs anywhere.
4. Has had the same CEO since 1973
5. Has never had a layoff, downsizing or sales force reduction of any kind!!!
 












Response to the post: "Blah, Blah, Blah" :

{1. Launched 5 drugs in the past 18 months.}

In my post I did not accuse your company of not launching new drugs. So I appreciate your point number one. Congratulations.

{2. Will be launching 2 new drugs per year for the next 4 years.}

Again, I never said you were not going to launch more drugs in the near future. Great. Congratulations.


{3. One of the best profit sharing and stock option programs anywhere.}
I am glad you are making good money with great benefits. Good for you!

{4. Has had the same CEO since 1973}
I am not sure what the tenure of Howard Solomon has to do with anything. But, ok, Pat on the back to Howard Solomon. I am sure he's a great man.

{5. Has never had a layoff, downsizing or sales force reduction of any kind!!!}
Finally, I will not dispute your job security. Sounds like you will not have to worry about being laid off. Awesome.

Perhaps you missed the point. You have told me all of the success and security you have with Forest. I was giving you real feedback on outside perceptions of your approach in some offices. I was not challenging any of the facts you responded with in your post.

I was simply giving you some feedback from the outside. We really do not keep track of how many drugs Forest is going to launch, how long your CEO has been with Forest, how well you are doing with your stock options, if you are going to face layoffs.

We like our Forest reps. But at least some of your customers feel like you as a company are just gathering signatures and your focus seems to be to drop a few boxes of samples, take up time in the halls, and get going as fast as you can after that. We actually have had Forest reps themselves complain about the approach of having to get signatures or get in trouble. So, we notice your approach and we hear the reps telling us how horrible their management is.

Forest may be selling the heck out of the drugs they are launching but there are actually other companies that seem to be doing well also. And the reps from some of those companies seem to be able to rationally approach our offices in a way that actually takes our time and needs into consideration more than the focus on getting our physicians and staff to beg off a sample signature whether we need anything or not. It just sometimes seems crazy. We notice. We hear from your reps all the time. We've seen your managers push us for time, signatures, etc.

It may be working for Forest but let me tell you it is not working for us. Your approach is part of the reason we as a hospital system is headed toward a total lockout of pharma reps. There seems to be no customer focus anymore. It seems to be more like a sample drop and signature scavenger hunt every day. And believe me, we know the difference between the reps who are here to get something from us and those reps who are truly here to provide something for us. In most cases, sad to say (and sad for the rep also), Forest seems to be here in the middle of our caring for patients to get something for themselves -a Sample Signature and one box of samples. If that offends you I am sorry.

I was not trying to start a war here but just wanted to let you know a humble office's perspective. With all due respect, your response really does not address the problem practically from our situation at all. We have reps from Forest all the time bemoan the fact that they are rated somehow on sample delivery and signatures. Some have been written up for not leaving enough samples/ not getting enough signatures.

A few of our providers have been fed up themselves and have really disliked the multiple reps and multiple requests for sigs. Forest has come up in discussions in our meetings with regard to frequent visits with apparently no agenda other than to drop samples and get sigs from several providers. It is irritating to them to then see that they are getting one box of meds for each signature. They have tracked it and have found that even in cases where they have said they need no more samples, samples are left. They have complained many times.

We have had reps from Forest that we really do enjoy. We know a few really well. so we get the inside scoop on some employee perceptions. We hope you all are successful. We just need to take care of our business and time also.

So, thanks for your telling me some great facts about your company. But what about our perceptions of your approach? We actually are going to have to make some changes soon regarding the multiple visits. I just wish there was a rational way to modify your focus and tailor it to the needs of those who write your drugs. That's all.

Thanks for your time.
 






Anonymous said:
Hmmm last time BI and Forest went at it was in the ARB market. How did Benicar do vs Micardis? Your 'once a day' battle cry with your much more expensive Spiriva will go just as well as your 24 hr Micardis half life did. Haha
Click to expand...

You have three ops to prove you are right, well this is now four, teflaro is a freaking bust, daliresp a bust, vybriid a bust, lets see what you can do with this piece of crap. Good luck.
 












Anonymous said:
Response to the post: "Blah, Blah, Blah" :

{1. Launched 5 drugs in the past 18 months.}

In my post I did not accuse your company of not launching new drugs. So I appreciate your point number one. Congratulations.

{2. Will be launching 2 new drugs per year for the next 4 years.}

Again, I never said you were not going to launch more drugs in the near future. Great. Congratulations.


{3. One of the best profit sharing and stock option programs anywhere.}
I am glad you are making good money with great benefits. Good for you!

{4. Has had the same CEO since 1973}
I am not sure what the tenure of Howard Solomon has to do with anything. But, ok, Pat on the back to Howard Solomon. I am sure he's a great man.

{5. Has never had a layoff, downsizing or sales force reduction of any kind!!!}
Finally, I will not dispute your job security. Sounds like you will not have to worry about being laid off. Awesome.

Perhaps you missed the point. You have told me all of the success and security you have with Forest. I was giving you real feedback on outside perceptions of your approach in some offices. I was not challenging any of the facts you responded with in your post.

I was simply giving you some feedback from the outside. We really do not keep track of how many drugs Forest is going to launch, how long your CEO has been with Forest, how well you are doing with your stock options, if you are going to face layoffs.

We like our Forest reps. But at least some of your customers feel like you as a company are just gathering signatures and your focus seems to be to drop a few boxes of samples, take up time in the halls, and get going as fast as you can after that. We actually have had Forest reps themselves complain about the approach of having to get signatures or get in trouble. So, we notice your approach and we hear the reps telling us how horrible their management is.

Forest may be selling the heck out of the drugs they are launching but there are actually other companies that seem to be doing well also. And the reps from some of those companies seem to be able to rationally approach our offices in a way that actually takes our time and needs into consideration more than the focus on getting our physicians and staff to beg off a sample signature whether we need anything or not. It just sometimes seems crazy. We notice. We hear from your reps all the time. We've seen your managers push us for time, signatures, etc.

It may be working for Forest but let me tell you it is not working for us. Your approach is part of the reason we as a hospital system is headed toward a total lockout of pharma reps. There seems to be no customer focus anymore. It seems to be more like a sample drop and signature scavenger hunt every day. And believe me, we know the difference between the reps who are here to get something from us and those reps who are truly here to provide something for us. In most cases, sad to say (and sad for the rep also), Forest seems to be here in the middle of our caring for patients to get something for themselves -a Sample Signature and one box of samples. If that offends you I am sorry.

I was not trying to start a war here but just wanted to let you know a humble office's perspective. With all due respect, your response really does not address the problem practically from our situation at all. We have reps from Forest all the time bemoan the fact that they are rated somehow on sample delivery and signatures. Some have been written up for not leaving enough samples/ not getting enough signatures.

A few of our providers have been fed up themselves and have really disliked the multiple reps and multiple requests for sigs. Forest has come up in discussions in our meetings with regard to frequent visits with apparently no agenda other than to drop samples and get sigs from several providers. It is irritating to them to then see that they are getting one box of meds for each signature. They have tracked it and have found that even in cases where they have said they need no more samples, samples are left. They have complained many times.

We have had reps from Forest that we really do enjoy. We know a few really well. so we get the inside scoop on some employee perceptions. We hope you all are successful. We just need to take care of our business and time also.

So, thanks for your telling me some great facts about your company. But what about our perceptions of your approach? We actually are going to have to make some changes soon regarding the multiple visits. I just wish there was a rational way to modify your focus and tailor it to the needs of those who write your drugs. That's all.

Thanks for your time.
Click to expand...

There is a. Statement here worth laughing at, "forest may be selling the heck out of the drugs they are launching" , the writer must be deaf, dumb and blind. Far from it.
 






Your perception is of a very small sample size. If we showed you a clinical study with an N value of 4 you would laugh. Yet you tell me about an anecdotal perception of reps in your office, which is to say accurate but also lacks a broader understanding. Perhaps the reason reps are in the office is because the providers there are very large writers versus just getting a signature. I have no idea or perhaps the reps are just bad reps. Either way classifying an entire company based on the actions of 4 reps is ludicrous. Perhaps I should classify all doctors based on one or two examples? All doctors are crazy because I knew one named Jack Kevorkian and he was well a very bad man. Absurd I know but you get the point... This is not to say that your example is not relevant but judge them based on the people they are versus making wide spread assumptions about an entire company.

Anonymous said:
Response to the post: "Blah, Blah, Blah" :

{1. Launched 5 drugs in the past 18 months.}

In my post I did not accuse your company of not launching new drugs. So I appreciate your point number one. Congratulations.

{2. Will be launching 2 new drugs per year for the next 4 years.}

Again, I never said you were not going to launch more drugs in the near future. Great. Congratulations.


{3. One of the best profit sharing and stock option programs anywhere.}
I am glad you are making good money with great benefits. Good for you!

{4. Has had the same CEO since 1973}
I am not sure what the tenure of Howard Solomon has to do with anything. But, ok, Pat on the back to Howard Solomon. I am sure he's a great man.

{5. Has never had a layoff, downsizing or sales force reduction of any kind!!!}
Finally, I will not dispute your job security. Sounds like you will not have to worry about being laid off. Awesome.

Perhaps you missed the point. You have told me all of the success and security you have with Forest. I was giving you real feedback on outside perceptions of your approach in some offices. I was not challenging any of the facts you responded with in your post.

I was simply giving you some feedback from the outside. We really do not keep track of how many drugs Forest is going to launch, how long your CEO has been with Forest, how well you are doing with your stock options, if you are going to face layoffs.

We like our Forest reps. But at least some of your customers feel like you as a company are just gathering signatures and your focus seems to be to drop a few boxes of samples, take up time in the halls, and get going as fast as you can after that. We actually have had Forest reps themselves complain about the approach of having to get signatures or get in trouble. So, we notice your approach and we hear the reps telling us how horrible their management is.

Forest may be selling the heck out of the drugs they are launching but there are actually other companies that seem to be doing well also. And the reps from some of those companies seem to be able to rationally approach our offices in a way that actually takes our time and needs into consideration more than the focus on getting our physicians and staff to beg off a sample signature whether we need anything or not. It just sometimes seems crazy. We notice. We hear from your reps all the time. We've seen your managers push us for time, signatures, etc.

It may be working for Forest but let me tell you it is not working for us. Your approach is part of the reason we as a hospital system is headed toward a total lockout of pharma reps. There seems to be no customer focus anymore. It seems to be more like a sample drop and signature scavenger hunt every day. And believe me, we know the difference between the reps who are here to get something from us and those reps who are truly here to provide something for us. In most cases, sad to say (and sad for the rep also), Forest seems to be here in the middle of our caring for patients to get something for themselves -a Sample Signature and one box of samples. If that offends you I am sorry.

I was not trying to start a war here but just wanted to let you know a humble office's perspective. With all due respect, your response really does not address the problem practically from our situation at all. We have reps from Forest all the time bemoan the fact that they are rated somehow on sample delivery and signatures. Some have been written up for not leaving enough samples/ not getting enough signatures.

A few of our providers have been fed up themselves and have really disliked the multiple reps and multiple requests for sigs. Forest has come up in discussions in our meetings with regard to frequent visits with apparently no agenda other than to drop samples and get sigs from several providers. It is irritating to them to then see that they are getting one box of meds for each signature. They have tracked it and have found that even in cases where they have said they need no more samples, samples are left. They have complained many times.

We have had reps from Forest that we really do enjoy. We know a few really well. so we get the inside scoop on some employee perceptions. We hope you all are successful. We just need to take care of our business and time also.

So, thanks for your telling me some great facts about your company. But what about our perceptions of your approach? We actually are going to have to make some changes soon regarding the multiple visits. I just wish there was a rational way to modify your focus and tailor it to the needs of those who write your drugs. That's all.

Thanks for your time.
Click to expand...
 






Anonymous said:
That's really all a Forest rep is concerned about is getting 7.5 signatures out of their 9-10 calls for the day. This keeps their district managers off their case. You can't blame the reps. it's the way their management treats their reps. The whole sales strategy is based on that very important sales indicator - the almighty signature. So many of these Forest reps will wait 20+ minutes ( and will often become agitated if it takes longer than that...) just to leave one box in the already high pile of the one box signature drop their counterparts already left. Forest is primarily about the numbers looking good without regard to the truly important aspects of selling. Forest has some good products and ,unbelievably, focuses on a signature on a computer screen.

I know that the management at Forest have a whole lecture on the fact that the signature buys some time to detail while the physician signs the computer screen. PLEASE. If you are only getting time with a physician because he/she is stopping to quickly sign your signature line then you have missed the point of every true selling approach ever taught.

Believe me, medical offices everywhere can see the game that Forest reps (along with a few other companies) play in getting the the "holy grail" of their typical workday -the signature.

And your office will be teeming with Forest reps regularly if you have multiple target physicians available to sign in a short time period. Forest reps plan their days around the ratio of "Number of Targets available in an office : Time it takes to get all their signatures."

An attractive office is one where you can stand in a hallway or in a patient room and get multiple signatures in a short time. Just watch them. It's obvious - that is their game.

Somehow I guess it must work for Forest. I just cannot imagine that it is fulfilling for a Forest rep to have everything revolve around having someone sign for one box of samples.

If Forest thinks that this whole signature seeking effort is lost on the very customers they seek to build trust and develop relationships with, they are mistaken. It irritates staff and doctors alike. Sure, some will play the game. Some Forest reps are liked on a personal level by our staff. But for most offices, it shows that Forest really doesn't hold them and their patients in very high regard.

To the office staff and the physician/HCP staff in many places it just looks ridiculous. We play the game with you Forest reps and we like many of you but we secretly do not respect you. We know it isn't your fault but it really looks ridiculous to those watching you seek signatures above all else.
Click to expand...

If this is even remotely true, Forest managemant is fucking nuts. They absolutely do not trust the reps. They are responsibile for much the access issues too. Pure trash.
 












Top Bottom
Back
Quote