Who determines who is laid off?

[anonymous]

Do we know for sure that Novartis hires the outside company to determine who is laid off? Is it possible that managers and management have some say.

 

[anonymous]

The managers will have very little say. They use an outside company that ensures that there is enough randomness in who stays and who goes so that they can not get sued for any type of workplace discrimination. There is some calculus done to determine what areas may need more reps than other (potential, current volume, etc.) but all of the decisions are made outside of the company so that they are insulated from litigation.

 

[anonymous]

The managers will have very little say. They use an outside company that ensures that there is enough randomness in who stays and who goes so that they can not get sued for any type of workplace discrimination. There is some calculus done to determine what areas may need more reps than other (potential, current volume, etc.) but all of the decisions are made outside of the company so that they are insulated from litigation.

So you believe the ABL’s or higher level managers have no say at all?

 

[anonymous]

So you believe the ABL’s or higher level managers have no say at all?

Yes

 

[anonymous]

The managers will have very little say. They use an outside company that ensures that there is enough randomness in who stays and who goes so that they can not get sued for any type of workplace discrimination. There is some calculus done to determine what areas may need more reps than other (potential, current volume, etc.) but all of the decisions are made outside of the company so that they are insulated from litigation.

I agree 100%, usually how it works.

 

[anonymous]

So you believe the ABL’s or higher level managers have no say at all?

Correct. Last time the consultants made the decisions so randomly and even my manager was surprised to be retained. There were Presidents Club winners displaced, as well as people who had been with the company many years, while others like them were retained. Brand new people were retained, brand new people let go.
No pattern and managers had no input.

 

[anonymous]

Correct. Last time the consultants made the decisions so randomly and even my manager was surprised to be retained. There were Presidents Club winners displaced, as well as people who had been with the company many years, while others like them were retained. Brand new people were retained, brand new people let go.
No pattern and managers had no input.

Novartis cannot assume the sort of legal liability that goes with layoffs. There are a few guidelines established around business reviews, performance and customer continuity and then they turn it over to a third-party vendor.

 

[anonymous]

Novartis cannot assume the sort of legal liability that goes with layoffs. There are a few guidelines established around business reviews, performance and customer continuity and then they turn it over to a third-party vendor.

Makes sense

 

[anonymous]

To think managers don’t have a say is ludicrous. They do.

 

[anonymous]

To think managers don’t have a say is ludicrous. They do.

Many AbLs will be displaced .. so NO. They don’t have a say. Is this your first layoff in pharma! Get real.

Why would it matter anyway . Your ranked the same as your teammates!

 

[anonymous]

To think managers don’t have a say is ludicrous. They do.

Well then what would be the point of the outside firm?

 

[anonymous]

To think managers don’t have a say is ludicrous. They do.

Absolutely untrue. Last layoff, my managers favorite rep was laid off and then brought back in in a different division. She, without a doubt, would not have been laid off if he had a say.

 

[anonymous]

Keep thinking what you want. Every algorithm includes performance and evals. Who do you think writes performance evals, awards the exceptional impact rankings, and stack ranks their teams for fodder that feeds into the ZS algorithms? And RDs approve all of this too and will influence along the way.

Again, to think managers have no say in layoffs is ludicrous. Wake up.

 

[anonymous]

Managers do not have a say outside of putting you on a pip pre layoff. That pip could be a problem but nothing beyond

 

[anonymous]

Keep thinking what you want. Every algorithm includes performance and evals. Who do you think writes performance evals, awards the exceptional impact rankings, and stack ranks their teams for fodder that feeds into the ZS algorithms? And RDs approve all of this too and will influence along the way.

Again, to think managers have no say in layoffs is ludicrous. Wake up.

Your fixation with dying on this hill is absurd. Managers can't impact performance when you're ranked as a district.
Furthermore, what ABL is accepting the legal liability of being involved? We would know through legal discovery if they had a say or not, and if they were involved, they'd be on the hook for potential damages.
They aren't involved. Period.
They might play a role in getting their favorites back in (and forcing people out to create a fit), but that's it.

 

[anonymous]

Keep thinking what you want. Every algorithm includes performance and evals. Who do you think writes performance evals, awards the exceptional impact rankings, and stack ranks their teams for fodder that feeds into the ZS algorithms? And RDs approve all of this too and will influence along the way.

Again, to think managers have no say in layoffs is ludicrous. Wake up.

Sorry, I don't agree. As long as you aren't on a PIP, performance doesn't matter. Multiple President Club reps were let go last year in CV downsizing. Performance isn't used. ABLs and RDs have no say. The only criteria used last time was call continuum, where you lived and 1 CV and 1 PCP per territory if possible. The CV rep got Leqvio lead and PCP got Entresto lead in most cases.

 

[anonymous]

Lets say one is in R&D. Individual contributor. And he/she is laid off. Would the manager (director) not know (or rather have a direct say) in which of his direct reports should be laid off? Perhaps he is given a number...and decides who to lay off...is that not how it works.

 

[anonymous]

Sorry, I don't agree. As long as you aren't on a PIP, performance doesn't matter. Multiple President Club reps were let go last year in CV downsizing. Performance isn't used. ABLs and RDs have no say. The only criteria used last time was call continuum, where you lived and 1 CV and 1 PCP per territory if possible. The CV rep got Leqvio lead and PCP got Entresto lead in most cases.

I agree with everything you said except the one CV and one PCP. In our area, the CV’s were replaced with PCP reps.