What will Ethicon/Covidien do once ISI launches stapler?

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people can be so stupid.

there are about 6000 hospitals in the US

Intuitive is in about 13 percent of those hospitals

so that leaves more than 85 percent that do not have a robot.

THose hospitals will still buy from Ethicon/Covidien.

The real questions are, what will the Intuitive employees do when Covidien or Ethicon buys Intuitive and when Titan enters the market? Say goodbye to your overpaid positions.

Also, I heard today that an third party company is going to be selling robotic instruments. Any truth to that? Not sure how it would be possible.

How funny would that be though?
 






Anonymous said:
people can be so stupid.

there are about 6000 hospitals in the US

Intuitive is in about 13 percent of those hospitals

so that leaves more than 85 percent that do not have a robot.

THose hospitals will still buy from Ethicon/Covidien.

The real questions are, what will the Intuitive employees do when Covidien or Ethicon buys Intuitive and when Titan enters the market? Say goodbye to your overpaid positions.

Also, I heard today that an third party company is going to be selling robotic instruments. Any truth to that? Not sure how it would be possible.

How funny would that be though?
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Stapler may lead to further adoption of da Vinci in the 85% of hospitals w/o robot. Game over!
 












Anonymous said:
Stapler may lead to further adoption of da Vinci in the 85% of hospitals w/o robot. Game over!
Click to expand...

Really? So you're telling me that the surgeons who have been doing lap colons and lap bariatrics without a robot for all of these years are going to suddenly transition to the robot because of a stapler? Doubtful. What clinical benefit are you going to preach to a surgeon that already has good outcomes? Let's be honest, a good lap general surgeon isn't going to transition to the robot because of a stapler. They are already doing those cases in less time and with the exact same, if not better outcomes, than the robot.

Also, keep in mind that the bulk of the business for Ethicon and Covidien are open stapling devices and those cases aren't going away.

From what I have seen in my hospitals that have a robot, it is still GYN and URO. The general and bariatric surgeons haven't touched the old or SI robot because they've been doing those cases for years without the need for a robot. A stapler on a robot arm isn't doing to suddenly convince them to switch because there isn't a clinical benefit to switch. There is one thoracic surgeon who uses the robot but he opens 95% of the time anyways so he will still continue to use a non-robot stapler when he opens.
 






Comment on pay: Clinical Reps easily have 70-80 hour work weeks week by week. They not only train surgeons and staff, they then take on marketing for the practices and hospitals. They help develop websites and letter campaigns. They call on the C-suite and I've known reps who have saved surgeons from hurting patients or unnecessariy opening them up due to an unforeseen complication. They are technical experts, clinical experts, and have a degree of marketing expertise. They are groomed enough to interact with all levels in the hospital.

Compared to what MOST device reps do, they are grossly underpaid. That being said, they are also brain washed into thinking they are the elite sales pro's in the business. Problem is, they may be good, but they allow management to influence them on HOW to sell. And selling can be unethical, heavy handed, uses leverage to almost force surgeons to utilize the robot. Imagine if they took all that effort and skill and applied it in a positive way? Too bad management is busy butt-f*cking each other and telling themselves how awesome they are.
 






Anonymous said:
Stapler may lead to further adoption of da Vinci in the 85% of hospitals w/o robot. Game over!
Click to expand...

Game Over?? are you serious? Did you just graduate college deusch?


Here's news for you, you're with Intuitive about 4 years to late. Everyone else that was with the company made big money with the stock and now your just an Intuitive servant.


In words you'd understand, the Intuitive Game is Over, has been for years.

But that won't keep folks like you who had a hard on to work for them for years from slaving a way for a company that you wont benefit from the stock increases any more.

Change your verbage, you sound ignorant.

Hope you realize the competition is nearly here and your sorry ass company that abused so many hospitals Game will soon be over.
 






Agreed, general surgeons really don't do robotics..., Intuitive has no idea how to sell competitively, they don't even know that they have competitors...uppermanagement has no idea why they are "off the curve" because they don't have a clue about the clinical side of the business...Ethicon has nothing to worry about here...
 






Anonymous said:
Comment on pay: Clinical Reps easily have 70-80 hour work weeks week by week. They not only train surgeons and staff, they then take on marketing for the practices and hospitals. They help develop websites and letter campaigns. They call on the C-suite and I've known reps who have saved surgeons from hurting patients or unnecessariy opening them up due to an unforeseen complication. They are technical experts, clinical experts, and have a degree of marketing expertise. They are groomed enough to interact with all levels in the hospital.

Compared to what MOST device reps do, they are grossly underpaid. That being said, they are also brain washed into thinking they are the elite sales pro's in the business. Problem is, they may be good, but they allow management to influence them on HOW to sell. And selling can be unethical, heavy handed, uses leverage to almost force surgeons to utilize the robot. Imagine if they took all that effort and skill and applied it in a positive way? Too bad management is busy butt-f*cking each other and telling themselves how awesome they are.[/Bravo...could not have said better myself....QUOTE]
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Knowing a little about this....I'm curious to see what Covidien can do with the "robotic stapler."

In my opinion, you all are all "clueless"....sorry to say that, but just having a little free entertainment in the PM viewing your posts.
 






Who's clueless? The ISI reps? I'm no fan of them by any stretch but almost EVERY ISI rep is pulling $200K. Every rep. Some are pulling down $250-300K depending on when they came into the company. Are they going to capture the remaining 85% of the market with a robotic stapler? No, but Covidian and EES will absolutely feel the difference. Bariatrics are dying to get into robotics and the stapler will make it easy to do.

Covidian and EES are pulling $130K-$150K at most. That being said, they may actually have a life which is worth the pay cut. But, make no mistake, they are "me too" products.
 






Once the surgeons get **beyond the 20 case requirement to get their certification, there will be a mass exodus from the robot, stapler or no stapler.

Robot for Hysters, robot for Oophs? Are you kidding me!?

Great concern for patient health and safety. Placing a patient under anesthesia for extra hours is unethical.
 






A lot of funny, albeit clearly uneducated responses here. Without question, Covidien and J&J are extremely worried about intuitive. The launch of a stapler will be significant because it will provide the missing device that has prevented General and Colorectal surgeons from shifting to it. Robotics, like all technologies, will continue to evolve. Whether they adopt now or in the future, two thing are certain--1. Minimally Invasive surgery is better than open 2. What you can do with a robot in terms of complexity and accuracy, far outweighs what you can do with standard sticks. If you see what they've done with Hysterectomies in just a short period, than you should be VERY worried if you're J/J and covidien, as indeed they are. Eventually there will be more devices and further development of better robots. Whether it's now or 5 years from now, the writing is clearly on the wall. Ignore it at your own peril.
 






Anonymous said:
Who's clueless? The ISI reps? I'm no fan of them by any stretch but almost EVERY ISI rep is pulling $200K. Every rep. Some are pulling down $250-300K depending on when they came into the company. Are they going to capture the remaining 85% of the market with a robotic stapler? No, but Covidian and EES will absolutely feel the difference. Bariatrics are dying to get into robotics and the stapler will make it easy to do.

Covidian and EES are pulling $130K-$150K at most. That being said, they may actually have a life which is worth the pay cut. But, make no mistake, they are "me too" products.
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Umm, let's see.
(1) Every ISI rep is pulling $200K? FALSE
(2) Covidien and EES pulling $130K - $150K at most? Puh-leaze. FALSE
(3) Covidien and EES have a life? TRUE
 


















Anonymous said:
Comment on pay: Clinical Reps easily have 70-80 hour work weeks week by week. They not only train surgeons and staff, they then take on marketing for the practices and hospitals. They help develop websites and letter campaigns. They call on the C-suite and I've known reps who have saved surgeons from hurting patients or unnecessariy opening them up due to an unforeseen complication. They are technical experts, clinical experts, and have a degree of marketing expertise. They are groomed enough to interact with all levels in the hospital.

Compared to what MOST device reps do, they are grossly underpaid. That being said, they are also brain washed into thinking they are the elite sales pro's in the business. Problem is, they may be good, but they allow management to influence them on HOW to sell. And selling can be unethical, heavy handed, uses leverage to almost force surgeons to utilize the robot. Imagine if they took all that effort and skill and applied it in a positive way? Too bad management is busy butt-f*cking each other and telling themselves how awesome they are.
Click to expand...

You forgot to mention that they rescue kitties out of trees and help old ladies cross the street. Jesus, if it such a great place where everyone makes money why is the turn 30% yearly? Maybe the answer is people cant hack it, or frankly don't want to. I got another call yesterday (the third in as many months) for a territory over 150 miles away. They have already turned the reps within 100 miles.
 






GYN and URO love daVinci because it makes the entire experience of a radical prostaec or radical hyster much more pleasant. They are geometrically challenging for any surgeon going at it with a straight stick. Therefore, the delta between daVinci and straight stick is HUGE.

BUT when you get into colorectal, that's not going to be the case. daVinci can make rectal surgery better because it offers a lot of mobility in a very tiny space. However, when you talk about left/right/sigmoid cole surgeries, which are already pretty easily performed by colorectal surgeons, that delta is going to be minimal. Combined with the fact that robot docking time is still annoying as hell and potentially increases OR time for patients, daVinci is looking at a lot more uphill here vs. URO and GYN. Additionally, a lot of colorectal surgeries require multi-quadrant access, which daVinci currently cannot offer. Sure that's just a technical challenge and it's only a matter of time before that mobility happens, BUT you have Titan who is in partnership with KUKA who is in partnership with DLR, which has developed a far better robot in terms of offering mobility and lower cost as well as the potential to decrease surgery time. Titan is small now, but if it takes the right steps, ISI will not be making headway into the colorectal game.
 












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