To be wanted or not to be wanted

[I Love America]

It would seem the liberals sole argument for conferring life upon an unborn baby is whether or not it is wanted.

If the mother "wants" it, then it can be considered alive and conferred all rights. But, if the mother doesn't want it because she wants to keep on partying like Casey Anthony then the unborn baby can be discarded like yesterdays trash.

But, lets extend that logic to the elderly. If they have no money and can't support themselves and they have no children or their children refuse to take them in, then by definition they aren't wanted. Should we abort them as well?

Ahhhh, but they are already alive you might say. But, so is the unborn child inside the mothers womb. Just because it is tethered to her for survival makes it no less alive than the elderly person with no means to fend for his/her self.

What is odd about the position that those who support the culture of death such as SPN is that they claim to be revolted by Casey Anthony yet if Casey Anthony had aborted her baby in utero, SPN would be singing her praises and might even be throwing a parade for her.

I wonder what Romney thinks of it? He was once pro choice to get elected to Taxachussets, but now claims to be pro life. Convenient huh?

But, that doesn't bother the likes of some who claim to support him and provide links to his really cool website with all of his really cool gobblement plans to fix our problems

 

[jasmin]

Grandma doesn't need someone else's body to exist or to survive. Casey Anthony is all the more atrocious because she chose to bring that child into the world and then destroyed it.

Now I know you're still hung up about a website link so are you really claiming you don't know how to navigate a website? Really? Or are you really just peeved because your extremist candidate is failing in the polls?

BTW, I was pro-life once. But I made the mistake of actually getting involved with these groups, especially thosse affiliated with the catholic church. Then I learned more about who these people really are, their motivations, their extremism, their ideas of controlling birth control, sex education, and their views of women and their "place". I was also actively pursuing a male dominated profession and education which didn't fly with this same crowd. My pro-choice views were cemented while I was pregnant and fully grasped all a woman gives to bring a healthy, mentally sound, and happy child into the world, what it does to a woman physically and emotionally. And as much as MFAS wants to dismiss these views, I know things you can never understand. You can empathize, relate, but never know.

 

[jasmin]

BTW, this is a very tired old argument, that abortion will lead to euthanasia. Yet 38 years later (more in some states) and it hasn't followed that path. Proof your premise is wrong.

 

[I Love America]

Grandma doesn't need someone else's body to exist or to survive. Casey Anthony is all the more atrocious because she chose to bring that child into the world and then destroyed it.

Now I know you're still hung up about a website link so are you really claiming you don't know how to navigate a website? Really? Or are you really just peeved because your extremist candidate is failing in the polls?

BTW, I was pro-life once. But I made the mistake of actually getting involved with these groups, especially thosse affiliated with the catholic church. Then I learned more about who these people really are, their motivations, their extremism, their ideas of controlling birth control, sex education, and their views of women and their "place". I was also actively pursuing a male dominated profession and education which didn't fly with this same crowd. My pro-choice views were cemented while I was pregnant and fully grasped all a
woman gives to bring a healthy, mentally sound, and happy child into the world, what it does to a woman physically and emotionally. And as much as MFAS wants to dismiss these views, I know things you can never understand. You can empathize, relate, but never know.

No wonder you love Romney so much. You two change your minds on abortion so much neither one of you can hold a firm opinion.

One thing is for sure. You definitely have a chip on your shoulder and strike me as a bitter person. Yep, a child changes your body. So what? Do your kids know you are so bitter about carrying them?

 

[jasmin]

No wonder you love Romney so much. You two change your minds on abortion so much neither one of you can hold a firm opinion.

One thing is for sure. You definitely have a chip on your shoulder and strike me as a bitter person. Yep, a child changes your body. So what? Do your kids know you are so bitter about carrying them?

Yep, my views in my 50s are different than they were in my teens. Go figure. Most people are smart enough to realize they don't know everything and views change based on life experiences.

My kids know they were wanted, loved before and after they were born, that they were conceived out of love with a great father, and that I would give my body, my soul, and my life for them. They know my job choices, where we live, and more were based on what was best for them. They also know that if you don't want a child than you shouldn't have one. My children changed my life for the better - but they were wanted and treasured. I was not limited in choice of birth control, I did not have a pregnancy as a result of violence, and I was not forced to make the needed sacrifices to bring great kids into the world. Oh and, my kids are some of the greatest people you could hope to know.

 

[Man For All Seasons]

BTW, this is a very tired old argument, that abortion will lead to euthanasia. Yet 38 years later (more in some states) and it hasn't followed that path. Proof your premise is wrong.

Hardly. Just because something is happening slow doesn't mean it isn't happening.

And if you can't see the culture of death that is becoming more and more prevalent in our nation, though slowly, then you are blind.

 

[Man For All Seasons]

Grandma doesn't need someone else's body to exist or to survive. Casey Anthony is all the more atrocious because she chose to bring that child into the world and then destroyed it.

Now I know you're still hung up about a website link so are you really claiming you don't know how to navigate a website? Really? Or are you really just peeved because your extremist candidate is failing in the polls?

BTW, I was pro-life once. But I made the mistake of actually getting involved with these groups, especially thosse affiliated with the catholic church. Then I learned more about who these people really are, their motivations, their extremism, their ideas of controlling birth control, sex education, and their views of women and their "place". I was also actively pursuing a male dominated profession and education which didn't fly with this same crowd. My pro-choice views were cemented while I was pregnant and fully grasped all a woman gives to bring a healthy, mentally sound, and happy child into the world, what it does to a woman physically and emotionally. And as much as MFAS wants to dismiss these views, I know things you can never understand. You can empathize, relate, but never know.

Grandma and an infant may both be entirely dependent on "someone else's body" in order to provide them with shelter and nourishment ie to continue to live. Don't take care of Grandma's or an infant's needs and see what sort of trouble you get into.

In fact a pregnant woman has an easier time providing these for her unborn child than after birth. So the "someone else's body" argument doesn't work for you. It will work for me. It's someone else body and YOU don't have the right to destroy it. Yeah, this is probably too much logic for you and what do I know, I've never carried a child, though millions upon millions of pro-life moms have. Wonder what that means?

 

[tinkrbelle]

It would seem the liberals sole argument for conferring life upon an unborn baby is whether or not it is wanted.

If the mother "wants" it, then it can be considered alive and conferred all rights. But, if the mother doesn't want it because she wants to keep on partying like Casey Anthony then the unborn baby can be discarded like yesterdays trash.

But, lets extend that logic to the elderly. If they have no money and can't support themselves and they have no children or their children refuse to take them in, then by definition they aren't wanted. Should we abort them as well?

Ahhhh, but they are already alive you might say. But, so is the unborn child inside the mothers womb. Just because it is tethered to her for survival makes it no less alive than the elderly person with no means to fend for his/her self.

What is odd about the position that those who support the culture of death such as SPN is that they claim to be revolted by Casey Anthony yet if Casey Anthony had aborted her baby in utero, SPN would be singing her praises and might even be throwing a parade for her.

I wonder what Romney thinks of it? He was once pro choice to get elected to Taxachussets, but now claims to be pro life. Convenient huh?

But, that doesn't bother the likes of some who claim to support him and provide links to his really cool website with all of his really cool gobblement plans to fix our problems

That is a lame arguement and comparing apples to oranges. I am sure there are plenty of elderly who have died from lack of food, medicine, medical care etc., who's fault was that, is the family a killer? Doctor? self?
What about "death Panels"? Are those killers? What about when insurance denies treatment to patients and they die, are they killers? What about when a doctor RX's oxycotin and patient dies, is he a killer? What about when a judge sentences a criminal to death, is he a killer? Are these ethical, moral or Criminal dilemas?
You see, you could continue this line of argument forever, you need to stick with the topic. Just becuase some one DIED, doesnt mean they were KILLED>
Your myopic view of abortion and death is laughable- it is far broader than"wanting" ,

 

[I Love America]

Feebs, this goes back to the debate we had awhile back when MFAS was fixated on George Harrison 'wouldn't make it to heaven' because of his 'lifestyle (although he didn't give specifics as to how George had 'erred'. As the debate continued, questions arose on the topic of 'what happens to an infant that passes and then what happens to a fetus since he believes a fetus is a living, human life. The gist of it was that the unborn and the infant would be allowed in because they had never had the chance or heard the word. 'Free pass' was me paraphrasing the idea they get in.

But now that we're on it, once again - for the believers in judgement, heaven and hell, I'd like to ask - What exactly do you believe happens to the 'souls' of newborns and fetuses that have never even learned to talk yet?

According to MFAS there are specific rules and regulations for entrance and you are burning in these fires all the time if you don't get into heaven (poor George!). It certainly woulodn't be fair of god to send them to the 'fires' would it? And the only other choice is heaven - that is unless maybe he reopens 'purgatory' which, as you know, was closed by some Catholic priests wearing those cool, pointy hats at a meeting in the Vatican a few years ago.

This isn't about heaven or hell. It is about a culture of death that our country has embraced that is disturbing. Yes, I am pro death penalty. I believe that any crime involving violence against women, children and murder deserve the ultimate punishment.

It is without question that abortion has been used as a birth control method in this country. That should sicken any sentient being.

People who justify this culture of death by saying that "it could lower the crime rate" or "it could put less burden on the welfare system" are sick to me. Flat out sick.

My opposition to abortion does not stem from my religious views. I have never made a religious argument regarding abortion.

Bottom line is that it is a human being that deserves equal protection regardless what the mother wants. There is no difference whether you kill that baby outside or inside the womb.

As I have said before, for those women who claim abortion is their way of having control over their bodies, I say control your body and then you will not have need for an abortion.

I don't want to get addicted to crack, so I don't do crack.

I don't want to become an alcoholic, so I don't abuse alcohol.

I don't want to die in a fiery car accident, so I don't scream down the highway doing 80 mph in a rainstorm with no seatbelt.

I don't want to die in a Categor 5 hurricane, so I evacuate.

I don't want to be electrocuted so I don't go outside in a lightning storm holding an aluminum pole standing on a hill.

Get the point yet?

Seems to me that women who fight so hard for this so called right which does not exist in the US Constitution, do so to have a mulligan for their bad decisions. The men who support it just want women to keep up with their slutty behavior so they don't have to pay the consequences for their actions.

Neither is good for our society. Anyone who says that the murder of 30 million innocent babies has been a good thing for this country is despicable in my book

 

[I Love America]

And, I agree, if I were a believer, that would be the logical assumption. So - assuming that's what happens, with the Christian belief that our mission on earth is to go to heaven, what I'm asking is - "If the purported souls of aborted fetuses go straight to heaven, why are people upset when they get that wonderful opportunity?"

Seems like there are 2 possibilities: 1) If life on earth is finite - then it makes no difference sinc consciuosness was never attained, therefor the embryo doen't 'know'; it was aborted or 2) if it isn't, and the Christian construct of heaven is true and getting there is the goal, the aborted embryos achieve their goal right off the bat and there should probably be a celebration.

Interesting question. Let's extend your argument, why not extend it to nursing home patients with dementia?

Also, if you know a woman has a miscarriage, do you tell her to celebrate?

Your daughter was just married, lets say god forbid something horrific happened and she and her unborn died tragically. Would you just mourn the loss of your daughter or both? Lets say your daughter wre to miscarry at month 2, would you be sad for her, or would you tell to get over it and that it was just a collection of cells?

You see, you can't detach yoursel from this argument, as much as you would like to be cute about it.

As I said before, this is not about religion to me. In fact you inject religion into threads more than MFAS does, just from a different angle

 

[I Love America]

I'm well aware that you construct your arguments from a different point than religion and I appreciate and respect that completely. I don't share your view on this but I do appreciate the fact you aren't whapping everyone over the head with religion. I do not respect MFAS's arguements. They are like sermons completely from his own personal religious views and he doesn't even stop to consider the other side like you do - even though you don't agree, you consider and endeavor to construct a logical argunmment.

Major difference.

To the point about the elderly, I didn't ask you if you thought they should be allowed to do it themselves. Should we do it for them. If they are demented, what do they offer? Shouldn't we just put them out of their misery so they aren't a drain on society?

Here is the problem with the pro abortion movement, they think that they can arbitrarily determine when life begins and that if a woman chooses to have the baby, then in fact it is a human life. If they choose to not have the baby, then it is not. I think it is impossible to square those two positions

 

[I Love America]

Thanks Feebs, didn't mean to put you on the spot but there are specific references on this board toward people (who believe abortion is justified) as 'sickening' and as 'murderers'. I thank you for entering a civilized debate and happy that you find a place in your heart for half the American people who are pro-abortion - even though you don't agree, you aren't 'sickened by them.

As someone who has used the word sickening, allow me to clarify my statements.

I do not take lightly the issue of abortion. In fact, in very few situations (FEW) meaning less than 1% of the abortions that occur today, someone can make a case for it.

What I object to and what I do find sickening is that over 99% of abortions are used as a means of birth control. That I believe is sickening and I think it is weak for people to hide behind horrendous acts such as rape and incest to support it.

I will give you credit in that you are out in the open about abortion being used as population control. I disagree vehemently, but at least you are out there.

The ones who I find sickening and duplicitous are those who screech about rape as their reason to defend abortion and when offered a compromise to make it legal in cases of rape, they immediately backtrack. They are dishonest and sickening in my book.

 

[Doc Who]

Abortions should be as easy as acquiring a gun in this country.

There should be a Abortion clinic in every mall in America.

How many innocent lives were aborted in wars?

There will come a day when the population of this planet is so bad abortions will be forced on women. Now there is the difference. Women are not forced to have that child. But should we listen to those silly religious folks, the forced abortion days will come sooner than later.

 

[I Love America]

Abortions should be as easy as acquiring a gun in this country.

Fine Spanky, lets make abortions as easy as acquiring a gun. You said it now lets make it so. Here is what someone has to do to acquire a gun in this country. Listed below are federal regulations for gun ownership. Do you support them for abortions? You just said you did. Just want to make sure.

Prohibited persons
The following list of prohibited persons are ineligible to have abortions under the Brady Handgun Violence Against the Unborn Prevention Act.

• Those convicted of felonies and certain misdemeanors except where state law reinstates rights, or removes disability.
• Fugitives from justice
• Unlawful users of certain depressant, narcotic, or stimulant drugs
• Those adjudicated as mental defectives or incompetents or those committed to any mental institution and currently containing a dangerous mental illness.
• Non-US citizens, unless permanently immigrating into the U.S.
• Illegal Aliens
• Those who have renounced U.S. citizenship
• Minors defined as under the age of eighteen
• Persons convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence (an addition)
• Persons under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for more than one year are ineligible to receive, transport, or ship any firearm or ammunition

Acquiring from abortion clinics
Provided that federal law and the laws of both the baby killers and purchaser's states and localities are complied with:

• An individual 21 years of age or older may acquire an abortion from a abortion killer federally licensed to sell kill babies in the individual's state of residence.

• An individual 18 years of age or older may purchase an abortion from a federally licensed dealer in any state. However, the applicant may not purchase a partial birth abortion until she is 21 years of age.

• Sale of an abortion by a federally licensed dealer must be documented by a federal form, which identifies and includes other information about the purchaser, and records the age, termination date, and method of abortion. Sales to an individual of multiple abortions within a 3 year period require dealer notification to the HHS. Violations of dealer record keeping requirements are punishable by a penalty of up to $1000 and one year's imprisonment.

There should be a Abortion clinic in every mall in America.

How about a gun store in every mall in America?

How many innocent lives were aborted in wars?

Less than were aborted by the likes of Tiller the Baby Killer

There will come a day when the population of this planet is so bad abortions will be forced on women. Now there is the difference. Women are not forced to have that child. But should we listen to those silly religious folks, the forced abortion days will come sooner than later.

Again, you are so worried about overpopulation yet you won't do the brave thing and remove yourself from the equation. Like the coward you are, you call for the murder of innocent life.

I already know your response to the last statement and all I can say is name the time and place and I will meet you there. Lets see how tough you really are.

 

[I Love America]

Prohibited persons
The following list of prohibited persons are ineligible to have abortions under the Brady Handgun Violence Against the Unborn Prevention Act.

Those convicted of felonies and certain misdemeanors except where state law reinstates rights, or removes disability.
Fugitives from justice
Unlawful users of certain depressant, narcotic, or stimulant drugs
Those adjudicated as mental defectives or incompetents or those committed to any mental institution and currently containing a dangerous mental illness.
Non-US citizens, unless permanently immigrating into the U.S.
Illegal Aliens
Those who have renounced U.S. citizenship
Minors defined as under the age of eighteen
Persons convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence (an addition)
Persons under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for more than one year are ineligible to receive, transport, or ship any firearm or ammunition

Good post Feebs but I can't help but thinking these are exactly the people who need free abortion most. Sure, once in a blue moon they produce a child who contributes to society but for the most part they produce offspring that take after them. Like Ben Franklin so aptly said in Poor Richard's Almanac: "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

You are obviously more of a cynic than I am and I am highly cynical about most things. What I am not cynical about is the ability of man to overcome his circumstances if given the chance. Countless stories abound of people who arise from horrible circumstances.

I do shudder at the thought of reducing human life to "well, your parents are shitty so you won't have a chance, therefore you get aborted".

Hell, look at the Kennedy's or Paris Hilton. One could argue that every Kennedy kid with the exception of John Jr and Caroline should have been aborted. They are all nightmares.

As for my post, it was really meant to highlight the folly of Doc Who and his throw away lines. He apparently is under the delusion that getting a gun is extremely easy in this country. It is not. But, since he says he wants to make abortions like getting a gun, I say lets do it. Lets apply the same types of restrictions on abortions as we do to guns and see if Doc Who goes for it.

Something tells me he will duck out as always when called on his bullshit

 

[Doc Who]

I already know your response to the last statement and all I can say is name the time and place and I will meet you there. Lets see how tough you really are.

Abortions should be as easy as acquiring a gun in this country. There are so many guns in this country that you do not have to go through the normal ways to acquire a gun. Just go to a Gun Show.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baPgr_tw79Q
As for taking my self out, only if ten like yourself meet me at Duck OBX. Only then it will be worth it.

 

[Doc Who]

Originally Posted by Doc Who View Post
Abortions should be as easy as acquiring a gun in this country.

Fine Spanky, lets make abortions as easy as acquiring a gun. You said it now lets make it so. Here is what someone has to do to acquire a gun in this country. Listed below are federal regulations for gun ownership. Do you support them for abortions? You just said you did. Just want to make sure.

Prohibited persons
The following list of prohibited persons are ineligible to have abortions under the Brady Handgun Violence Against the Unborn Prevention Act.

Those convicted of felonies and certain misdemeanors except where state law reinstates rights, or removes disability.
Fugitives from justice
Unlawful users of certain depressant, narcotic, or stimulant drugs
Those adjudicated as mental defectives or incompetents or those committed to any mental institution and currently containing a dangerous mental illness.
Non-US citizens, unless permanently immigrating into the U.S.
Illegal Aliens
Those who have renounced U.S. citizenship
Minors defined as under the age of eighteen
Persons convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence (an addition)
Persons under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for more than one year are ineligible to receive, transport, or ship any firearm or ammunition

Acquiring from abortion clinics
Provided that federal law and the laws of both the baby killers and purchaser's states and localities are complied with:

An individual 21 years of age or older may acquire an abortion from a abortion killer federally licensed to sell kill babies in the individual's state of residence.

An individual 18 years of age or older may purchase an abortion from a federally licensed dealer in any state. However, the applicant may not purchase a partial birth abortion until she is 21 years of age.

Sale of an abortion by a federally licensed dealer must be documented by a federal form, which identifies and includes other information about the purchaser, and records the age, termination date, and method of abortion. Sales to an individual of multiple abortions within a 3 year period require dealer notification to the HHS. Violations of dealer record keeping requirements are punishable by a penalty of up to $1000 and one year's imprisonment.


There should be a Abortion clinic in every mall in America.

How about a gun store in every mall in America?

How many innocent lives were aborted in wars?

Less than were aborted by the likes of Tiller the Baby Killer

There will come a day when the population of this planet is so bad abortions will be forced on women. Now there is the difference. Women are not forced to have that child. But should we listen to those silly religious folks, the forced abortion days will come sooner than later.

Again, you are so worried about overpopulation yet you won't do the brave thing and remove yourself from the equation. Like the coward you are, you call for the murder of innocent life.


ILA...WOW, VERY VERY well said! This really does put Doc's request in clear perspective. Curious if he will agree since it was his suggestion to make it as easy as buying a gun.

Yes I do stand by my statement. Abortion should be as easy as acquiring a gun.
http://www.gunshowundercover.org/

 

[Man For All Seasons]

Feebs, this goes back to the debate we had awhile back when MFAS was fixated on George Harrison 'wouldn't make it to heaven' because of his 'lifestyle (although he didn't give specifics as to how George had 'erred'. As the debate continued, questions arose on the topic of 'what happens to an infant that passes and then what happens to a fetus since he believes a fetus is a living, human life. The gist of it was that the unborn and the infant would be allowed in because they had never had the chance or heard the word. 'Free pass' was me paraphrasing the idea they get in.

But now that we're on it, once again - for the believers in judgement, heaven and hell, I'd like to ask - What exactly do you believe happens to the 'souls' of newborns and fetuses that have never even learned to talk yet?

According to MFAS there are specific rules and regulations for entrance and you are burning in these fires all the time if you don't get into heaven (poor George!). It certainly woulodn't be fair of god to send them to the 'fires' would it? And the only other choice is heaven - that is unless maybe he reopens 'purgatory' which, as you know, was closed by some Catholic priests wearing those cool, pointy hats at a meeting in the Vatican a few years ago.

Vag, I worry about you boy! Sometimes I wonder if you have enough sense to get in out of the rain.

I wasn't "fixated" on the George Harrison thing at all. I was merely correcting your silly, sentimental and un-Biblical notion that ole George was merrily jamming away in the hereafter when there is not much external evidence to support that.

You make this much tougher than it has to be. If George didn't claim Jesus as Lord and Savior at the time of his death, then he's in Hell according to Christian theology. There's nothing surprising or shocking about that if you know much at all about Christianity. It had nothing to do with his "lifestyle" it had to do with that fact that for though for awhile he went through a Christian phase, we all know that George was a seeker and went through many phases and he seemed to leave his Christian faith behind.

I wasn't an intimate friend of George Harrison. Neither were you. All I'm saying is that from all outward appearances of which I'm aware, that George would not have claimed to be a Christian at the time of his death. Hey, maybe he did and is in Heaven now! I would LOVE that! But the evidence as I know it doesn't support the idea that this is the most likely scenario.

As for the unborn children, I believe they go to Heaven, but in the process those participating in the child's demise have punched their tickets to Hell short of repentence and a saving knowledge of Christ later.

Abortion is much more of a tragedy for the rest of us, then it is the child. The child will be taken care of by God, we have stained our souls and darkened our culture. Not a wise move to create a culture of death and that is what we have done by disrespecting human life which God takes very seriously

Now, as far as me making arguments based upon religion. ILA is correct. You do that more than I do. But beyond that what you foolishly don't grasp is that everybody has a religion and everybody is motivated by it. It is your "religion" that causes you to ignore biological fact, morality and common sense to endorse abortion.

What you and the other hypersensitive anti-religious types here on CP can't seem to grasp is that religion plays a very minor part in most of my arguments. Logic and facts play the predominant role. But you are so driven over the edge that I am pointedly an evangelical Christian that you don't deal with reality, you set up this straw man where I'm supposedly thumping the Bible all the time. You aren't that lucky. I've beaten you down with the facts and logic long before I whip out the Good Book on you!

The unborn child from the moment of conception is a distinct, individual HUMAN LIFE! End of story.

 

[jasmin]

The unborn child from the moment of conception is a distinct, individual HUMAN LIFE! End of story.

So because you say 'end of story' that makes it so? Too bad many don't agree with you and this has been the substance of very intelligent debate for many, many years. Your 'facts' are far too often only your opinions.

http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/2011/aug/21/opinion-on-when-life-begins-not-fact-based/

The opinion and scientist cited in the attachment bring up an interesting question. If a 'human life' begins at conception, but we no there is no neurologic activity, are we ending a 'human life' when we end life support for someone with no brain function? Should doctors and organ donors be charged with murder?

 

[Man For All Seasons]

So because you say 'end of story' that makes it so? Too bad many don't agree with you and this has been the substance of very intelligent debate for many, many years. Your 'facts' are far too often only your opinions.

http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/2011/aug/21/opinion-on-when-life-begins-not-fact-based/

The opinion and scientist cited in the attachment bring up an interesting question. If a 'human life' begins at conception, but we no there is no neurologic activity, are we ending a 'human life' when we end life support for someone with no brain function? Should doctors and organ donors be charged with murder?

No, not because I say so, because the facts say so!

It's truly sad to see otherwise intelligent people such as yourself led astray by your bias into an illogical and ridiculous position when it come to the abortion issue and often other "social issues".

Here we go, SPN.

Is the cell after conception alive or is it dead?

Is the cell a human cell? an animal cell? a plant cell? Hmm?

When I say end of story, do yourself a favor and don't doubt me.

The child at the moment of conception is alive and it is human. It is a distinct human individual. The only difference between you and the child is point on the time line between conception and death.

Your point about brain activity is a red herring. Regardless, there is a big difference between snuffing out someone at the beginning of the life cycle and withdrawing life support when there is no brain activity at the end of the life cycle. The moral difference is huge.