This is why Rick Perry has balls

[I Love America]

Say you don't like him. Say you don't like his views on this or not, but for me he is telling the truth about Social Security. People say they want a politician that tells the truth, but when one does, they shit their pants.

"Oh you can't say that about Social Security"

http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/ma...-matthews-admits-social-security-ponzi-scheme

Even Hissyfit Matthews agrees it is a Ponzi scheme. Even his liberal guests agree it is a Ponzi scheme. Everyone knows it is, but you just can't say it.

The ruling class is so afraid of people finding out the truth because they know what will happen. So they divert your attention and call Perry bellicose.

Maybe he is. But he speaks the truth. And if anyone can prove to me that Social Security is not a ponzi scheme by definition, then I will leave CP forever.

Here is a question. Could I set up a system today structured just like Social Security? What would happen to me if I did?

http://www.sec.gov/answers/ponzi.htm


What is a Ponzi scheme?

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]A Ponzi scheme is an investment fraud that involves the payment of purported returns to existing investors from funds contributed by new investors.

So far we meet the first test of a Ponzi scheme. Today's workers pay money into Socialist inSecurity to existing retirees

Ponzi scheme organizers often solicit new investors by promising to invest funds in opportunities claimed to generate high returns with little or no risk.


Looks like it meets the second test of a Ponzi scheme. FDR promised a 3% return on Socialist inSecurity with no risk.

In many Ponzi schemes, the fraudsters focus on attracting new money to make promised payments to earlier-stage investors and to use for personal expenses, instead of engaging in any legitimate investment activity.

Looks like it meets the third test of a Ponzi scheme. There is no legitimate investment activity and the money not is used to fund current retirees, but thanks to LBJ it was used to fund other gobblement activities (this is really what the hucksters don't want to get out)
Why do Ponzi schemes collapse?

With little or no legitimate earnings, the schemes require a consistent flow of money from new investors to continue. Ponzi schemes tend to collapse when it becomes difficult to recruit new investors or when a large number of investors ask to cash out.

Looks like the last two things are being met now. We have a declining population of workers and an increasing number of people who are going to ask to cash out in the form of retiring.


Yessirreee bob, it looks like Rick Perry was dead on nuts accurate. My guess is that the Fleebaggers will run from this like they did the thread on union thuggery
[/FONT]

 

[jasmin]

I listened to a great discussion on this a couple days ago. The only difference the panel could discern was that a ponzi scheme was illegal and the mechanism of how it works is hidden from investors. So, I guess because it is legal and everyone knows how it works, which is why we get no choice in whether or not we contribute, is splitting hairs in saying it is not a ponzi scheme.

On the one hand, I think Perry knows what he is doing, making these kind of statements for the attention and name recognition it warrants. However, I also think it is who he is. While I appreciate blunt honesty, a president also has to know how to muzzle this and say the same thing a little more tactfully. I don't think tact is in Perry's vocabulary. I'll never forgt the sneers from odummy when republicans presented their healthcare plan. It was one of the early signs that he would be a polarizing force and would eventually become irrelevant - as he has. I suspect Perry might fall in the same trap because he does not understand diplomacy. You can be strong and blunt but also tactful and diplomatic.

 

[libluvsbukkake]

Isn't Bernie Maidoff in prison for life for doing the same thing? If you think that he swindled a lot of people, just wait and see what happens to all of us under 55. We will NEVER see it.

 

[I Love America]

I listened to a great discussion on this a couple days ago. The only difference the panel could discern was that a ponzi scheme was illegal and the mechanism of how it works is hidden from investors. So, I guess because it is legal and everyone knows how it works, which is why we get no choice in whether or not we contribute, is splitting hairs in saying it is not a ponzi scheme.

On the one hand, I think Perry knows what he is doing, making these kind of statements for the attention and name recognition it warrants. However, I also think it is who he is. While I appreciate blunt honesty, a president also has to know how to muzzle this and say the same thing a little more tactfully. I don't think tact is in Perry's vocabulary. I'll never forgt the sneers from odummy when republicans presented their healthcare plan. It was one of the early signs that he would be a polarizing force and would eventually become irrelevant - as he has. I suspect Perry might fall in the same trap because he does not
understand diplomacy. You can be strong and blunt but also tactful and diplomatic.

With all due respect, fuck that. We don't have time for diplomacy. We are on a freight train to economic ruin. People need to be jolted into action.

 

[Vagitarian]

Say you don't like him. Say you don't like his views on this or not, but for me he is telling the truth about Social Security. People say they want a politician that tells the truth, but when one does, they shit their pants.

"Oh you can't say that about Social Security"

http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/ma...-matthews-admits-social-security-ponzi-scheme

Even Hissyfit Matthews agrees it is a Ponzi scheme. Even his liberal guests agree it is a Ponzi scheme. Everyone knows it is, but you just can't say it.

The ruling class is so afraid of people finding out the truth because they know what will happen. So they divert your attention and call Perry bellicose.

Maybe he is. But he speaks the truth. And if anyone can prove to me that Social Security is not a ponzi scheme by definition, then I will leave CP forever.

Here is a question. Could I set up a system today structured just like Social Security? What would happen to me if I did?

http://www.sec.gov/answers/ponzi.htm


What is a Ponzi scheme?

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]A Ponzi scheme is an investment fraud that involves the payment of purported returns to existing investors from funds contributed by new investors.

So far we meet the first test of a Ponzi scheme. Today's workers pay money into Socialist inSecurity to existing retirees

Ponzi scheme organizers often solicit new investors by promising to invest funds in opportunities claimed to generate high returns with little or no risk.


Looks like it meets the second test of a Ponzi scheme. FDR promised a 3% return on Socialist inSecurity with no risk.

In many Ponzi schemes, the fraudsters focus on attracting new money to make promised payments to earlier-stage investors and to use for personal expenses, instead of engaging in any legitimate investment activity.

Looks like it meets the third test of a Ponzi scheme. There is no legitimate investment activity and the money not is used to fund current retirees, but thanks to LBJ it was used to fund other gobblement activities (this is really what the hucksters don't want to get out)
Why do Ponzi schemes collapse?

With little or no legitimate earnings, the schemes require a consistent flow of money from new investors to continue. Ponzi schemes tend to collapse when it becomes difficult to recruit new investors or when a large number of investors ask to cash out.

Looks like the last two things are being met now. We have a declining population of workers and an increasing number of people who are going to ask to cash out in the form of retiring.


Yessirreee bob, it looks like Rick Perry was dead on nuts accurate. My guess is that the Fleebaggers will run from this like they did the thread on union thuggery
[/FONT]

I agree Pery has the balls to say it. I have the balls too say it too. But what's his plan? It's like Jobama's 'job speech' - big hat no cattle.

I have yet to hear any politician come up with a concrete plan to return the money of those who were ponzied. At LEAST in a Ponzi sceme, you get to decide whether to invest or not. We didn't get that choice - it was a forced 'tax'. A tax that, upon distribution, get's taxed again. So it's a tax on a tax. Sounds like thievery to me and to stop it in it's tracks with no plan is to complete the act of robbery and politically commit Hari Kari.

 

[Bubble Burster]

I agree Pery has the balls to say it. I have the balls too say it too. But what's his plan? It's like Jobama's 'job speech' - big hat no cattle.

I have yet to hear any politician come up with a concrete plan to return the money of those who were ponzied. At LEAST in a Ponzi sceme, you get to decide whether to invest or not. We didn't get that choice - it was a forced 'tax'. A tax that, upon distribution, get's taxed again. So it's a tax on a tax. Sounds like thievery to me and to stop it in it's tracks with no plan is to complete the act of robbery and politically commit Hari Kari.

Don't forget you also have been paying income tax on your social security. Maybe you should all be allowed to deduct all of your contributions over a ten year period.

Meanwhile, I want to thank you very much for your monthly contributions to my grand children's college fund.

 

[Vagitarian]

Don't forget you also have been paying income tax on your social security. Maybe you should all be allowed to deduct all of your contributions over a ten year period.

Meanwhile, I want to thank you very much for your monthly contributions to my grand children's college fund.

Deductions would only replace a small percentage of it. Seriously, we all think it needs to be changed, does anyone have a plan - other than swindler Kenny (Enron) Lay's buddy George W Bushwhacker?

 

[I Love America]

The plan would have to go something like this. For those over 50, nothing would change. For those 45 and under phase it out to private accounts.

Simple.


Oh, I know what the paternalistic statists will say

"people won't be able to handle their own investments"

Yes they can. And if they don't well, fuck em

 

[Pale Horse]

Deductions would only replace a small percentage of it. Seriously, we all think it needs to be changed, does anyone have a plan - other than swindler Kenny (Enron) Lay's buddy George W Bushwhacker?

Just end it now and give me my money back.

 

[jasmin]

With all due respect, fuck that. We don't have time for diplomacy. We are on a freight train to economic ruin. People need to be jolted into action.

I've watched enough juvenile antics in the white house the past three years and would rather vote in someone of conviction but with a cool head. We are likely to face some of the most extreme challenges of our lives and I just don't think this is who I want in charge. He rose a notch when he returned to deal with the immediate disaster needs in Texas but just doesn't seem able to be a leader instead of a bully. I'm sure you know very strong leaders who can move people to action and they never insult, inflame, or raise their voice.

I undertand your position with Romney and struggle with his weakness. Check out his website sometime. It is embarrassing as he tries to explain all the areas where he changed opinion or caved.

Still, either one is a far cry better than obama.

 

[Doc Who]

I've watched enough juvenile antics in the white house the past three years and would rather vote in someone of conviction but with a cool head. We are likely to face some of the most extreme challenges of our lives and I just don't think this is who I want in charge. He rose a notch when he returned to deal with the immediate disaster needs in Texas but just doesn't seem able to be a leader instead of a bully. I'm sure you know very strong leaders who can move people to action and they never insult, inflame, or raise their voice.

I undertand your position with Romney and struggle with his weakness. Check out his website sometime. It is embarrassing as he tries to explain all the areas where he changed opinion or caved.

Still, either one is a far cry better than obama.

Tell me about the previous BU$H juvenile eight years.

 

[jasmin]

Tell me about the previous BU$H juvenile eight years.

I think there are plenty of posts about Bush.

Obama is exactly like a tantrum throwing, pouty two year old. His popularity will continue to plummet. Voters must not make the same mistake of voting in a noise box instead of a leader.

 

[Vagitarian]

The plan would have to go something like this. For those over 50, nothing would change. For those 45 and under phase it out to private accounts.

Simple.


Oh, I know what the paternalistic statists will say

"people won't be able to handle their own investments"

Yes they can. And if they don't well, fuck em

Finally ! A plan.... I agree, and those who cant manage a stock account need an annuity with P Ho. Maybe we need P Ho in the president's cabinet. I'm fucking serial !!!

 

[I Love America]

Finally ! A plan.... I agree, and those who cant manage a stock account need an annuity with P Ho. Maybe we need P Ho in the president's cabinet. I'm fucking serial !!!

The reason they won't come up with a plan is because they know they will get savaged. Just a fact of modern day politics.

The dems know that scaring seniors into believing that they won't get their social security is politically potent. I don't disagree. There are lots of uninformed voters who only think of their own self interest. I don't blame them.

The problem is that they are putting their own self interest into the pockets of today's younger generation.

Socialist inSecurity was easy when you had millions of working baby boomers contributing and the gobblement could raid it with impunity.

But, now the music is getting ready to stop and every single politician knows that none of their ilk if the magnitude of their treachery (yes I said treachery) is learned by the American people.

Remember, government will always seek to protect itself first. Not you.

I have written socialist insecurity off. When I get that stupid letter in the mail every year, I just shred it without opening it.

I read an article this morning in Forbes that said "Social Security isn't a Ponzi scheme because even if they do nothing, it will pay out 75% of benefits promised"

Now think about that Vag, put yourself in your daughters position. She is being forced to pay into a system that will only pay 75% of promised benefits?

It is a crime.

 

[I Love America]

I've watched enough juvenile antics in the white house the past three years and would rather vote in someone of conviction but with a cool head. We are likely to face some of the most extreme challenges of our lives and I just don't think this is who I want in charge. He rose a notch when he returned to deal with the immediate disaster needs in Texas but just doesn't seem able to be a leader instead of a bully. I'm sure you know very strong leaders who can move people to action and they never insult, inflame, or raise their voice.

I undertand your position with Romney and struggle with his weakness. Check out his website sometime. It is embarrassing as he tries to explain all the areas where he changed opinion or caved.

Still, either one is a far cry better than obama.

I would vote for Alibi Ike over Romney or Huntsman that is how much I disdain those two.

Romney says he isn't a career politician? Really?

In 1994 he unsuccessfully took on Teddy "The Swimmer" Kennedy for US Senate. In 2002 he ran for Governor. In 2008 he ran for President. And now he is running for President again.

The kind of cognitive dissonance that allows someone to believe that this does not constitute being a career politician is the same kind of person I don't want occupying the White House.

What is funny is that people don't like what Perry said about Socialist inSecurity because they think it was "inflammatory". Really?

What is inflammatory about the truth? Again, I listed the reasons why I think it is a Ponzi scheme. Not one person has tried to refute it.

Now, here are some arguments some make claiming that Socialist inSecurity and a Ponzi scheme aren't the same

1) A Bernie Madoff Ponzi scheme is termed illegal. The only thing that makes Socialist inSecurity "legal" is the impramatur or Congress passing a law. Congress can call "anything" legal. Slavery anyone?
2) Ponzi schemes are voluntary and Socialist inSecurity is involuntary. In that respect it is true, but is that really the distinction people want to hang their hat on?
3) Most Ponzi schemes ala Bernie Madoff involve one crook fucking you over. In the case of Socialist inSecurity, you had thousands of politicians since FDR sticking it in your ass and breaking it off.

If the GOP picks Romney it will be McCain Redux and I won't be party to it. I will just check out.

 

[~T~]

Inflammatory? Perry is committing political suicide just talking about getting rid of social security..Ponzi scheme or not. Think demographics..





P.S. Romney for President!

 

[I Love America]

Inflammatory? Perry is committing political suicide just talking about getting rid of social security..Ponzi scheme or not. Think demographics..





P.S. Romney for President!

Please find for me a quote where Perry said he wants to get rid of Social Security.

Thanks.

BTW, even your boy Romney says it needs to be fixed. Ever think to ask him why?

Do you think Social Security needs to be fixed? If so why do you think it needs to be fixed? And what do you think needs to be done about it?

 

[~T~]

At a Friday fundraiser in California, Perry stood by his criticism of Social Security and his position that the program is best left to states to administer — a non-starter for many, including some Republicans.

"For people who are on Social Security now, like my folks, and people who are approaching Social Security, like me, it's going to be there," he said.

But, he said, he didn't know at what point age-eligibility will have to be raised because the funds simply aren't there.

"Anybody that's for the status quo with Social Security today is involved with a monstrous lie to our kids, and it's not right," he said earlier this week during a debate.

http://hosted2.ap.org/APDEFAULT/89a... Security/id-0504585aec9441c480676d7c1dfd3de5

He may not want to get rid of it but he's messing with it--political suicide in the making.

 

[~T~]

The way to fix SS is to leave the funds the hell alone--no borrowing from or using the funds for any other purpose but SS.

 

[I Love America]

The way to fix SS is to leave the funds the hell alone--no borrowing from or using the funds for any other purpose but SS.

That sounds awesome, but unfortunately, that train has left the station. The politicians have been raiding it since LBJ. The money is spent. Now the obligations are due.

Let me explain it with a little math as it may be easier to understand.

I don't have the exact figures, but this is for illustration purposes.

If Social Security takes in $500 billion in FICA taxes and pays out $300 billion. In theory there should be $200 billion left over. And that is the way it was supposed to work until LBJ needed to pay for his Great Society and his Vietnam War. So me moved the SS money into the general fund. Now that $200 billion gets spent on everything else people want the gobblement to spend money on. You know, roads, teachers, FEMA, cops, oil subsidies, solar subsidies, ethanol subsidies.

But, that $200 billion still has to be paid out in benefits.

There are benefits that are coming due. The system is due to go bankrupt. What you advocate will only make it worse. It is already bankrupt.

Even if we did what you propose and said "NO SS money for anything else" there still wouldn't be enough money for what is owed.

Think of Social Security as a credit card that the federal gobblement has used since the 1960s. Well the bill is coming due in the form of retiring baby boomers. Where is the money going to come from? Y'all want your money. It ain't there.

So the choices will be make your kids and grandkids pay more to subsidize your retirement. Or you take reduced benefits.

That is what will be waiting for you if we do nothing. You may think that what Rick Perry is saying is political suicide and it very well may be because of uninformed, ignorant Americans.

But, just because something is political suicide or tough to hear does not make it any less true.

I would advise you to really study the issue and if you did. You would see that on this issue Rick Perry is right.