Stop the insanity!

[anonymous]

i was told today that one of our largest customers is closing their doors to all pharma reps. Why? In the past three weeks they have had visits or appointment requests from the following from NNI.....our three person pod, our manager, RBD, Obesity rep, their manager, AE, MSL, Educator and their boss. That's 11 employees!! This customer used to buy into our "changing diabetes" motto...not any more. With daily complaints that our products are costing patients hundreds of dollars per month (I think Saxenda north of $1000 was the final straw) they are disgusted by the army of NNI employees vying for time. We are not the only "over kill" company but by far the worst in their eyes.
Honestly, I can't blame them. We have way too many people with a bulls eye on high potential providers.
Something has gotta give.

 

[anonymous]

i was told today that one of our largest customers is closing their doors to all pharma reps. Why? In the past three weeks they have had visits or appointment requests from the following from NNI.....our three person pod, our manager, RBD, Obesity rep, their manager, AE, MSL, Educator and their boss. That's 11 employees!! This customer used to buy into our "changing diabetes" motto...not any more. With daily complaints that our products are costing patients hundreds of dollars per month (I think Saxenda north of $1000 was the final straw) they are disgusted by the army of NNI employees vying for time. We are not the only "over kill" company but by far the worst in their eyes.
Honestly, I can't blame them. We have way too many people with a bulls eye on high potential providers.
Something has gotta give.

This story is complete bullshit, and you know it. Leave.

 

[anonymous]

i was told today that one of our largest customers is closing their doors to all pharma reps. Why? In the past three weeks they have had visits or appointment requests from the following from NNI.....our three person pod, our manager, RBD, Obesity rep, their manager, AE, MSL, Educator and their boss. That's 11 employees!! This customer used to buy into our "changing diabetes" motto...not any more. With daily complaints that our products are costing patients hundreds of dollars per month (I think Saxenda north of $1000 was the final straw) they are disgusted by the army of NNI employees vying for time. We are not the only "over kill" company but by far the worst in their eyes.
Honestly, I can't blame them. We have way too many people with a bulls eye on high potential providers.
Something has gotta give.

If this is true...it's the worst outcome possible for the company and our industry. Please don't piss off customers...our presence in their office is a privilege, not a right.

 

[anonymous]

This story is complete bullshit, and you know it. Leave.

obviously, spoken by someone who hasn't been in the field.

 

[anonymous]

obviously, spoken by someone who hasn't been in the field.

I have been in the field for the last 15+ years, which is why I know this is bullshit. All you did was rattle off every sales person and their collaborative partners and pretend that they all happened to go to the exact same customer in the same week. It didn't happen. Are you so desperate for attention that you have to make up stories, or is this one of those time where they asked you not to come back anymore, so you blamed it on your partners?

 

[anonymous]

i was told today that one of our largest customers is closing their doors to all pharma reps. Why? In the past three weeks they have had visits or appointment requests from the following from NNI.....our three person pod, our manager, RBD, Obesity rep, their manager, AE, MSL, Educator and their boss. That's 11 employees!! This customer used to buy into our "changing diabetes" motto...not any more. With daily complaints that our products are costing patients hundreds of dollars per month (I think Saxenda north of $1000 was the final straw) they are disgusted by the army of NNI employees vying for time. We are not the only "over kill" company but by far the worst in their eyes.
Honestly, I can't blame them. We have way too many people with a bulls eye on high potential providers.
Something has gotta give.

I call BS that all of these NNI employees called on one customer in a 3 week period. Why don't I believe it? We all know that many of our colleagues just mail it in, pushing most of their "work activity" around that almighty office lunch. In other words they believe that if there isn't a lunch planned, why bother showing up and just sitting in a waiting room for 40 minutes, 6 times a day? I can believe that maybe a couple of DCS showed up with their managers in tow, but I SERIOUSLY doubt that everyone showed up exactly as ZS Associates drew it up when they and Boston Consulting helped us "come up" with the nefarious Pharma pod started by our competitors almost 20 years ago.

I DO believe that access has been shut off at busy clinics and offices, because in my territory its gotten progressively worse since about 2013. I know that we are not the only company with pods calling on the same customer, so I can see how they're throwing their hands up and saying enough is enough.

 

[anonymous]

thats believable to me. Look, in a 3 week period a) all three reps and probably their manager if not once but twice b) rbd is plausible, ours is coming out weekly in the field c) DEs have same customers as us so I'm sure a few are hers(his?) d) AEs have literally nothing to do in between their monthly call in to the plan (we still on? Ok, thanks.) so I could see them piggybacking on a call e) MLS will stop in to the big customers especially if their boss is with them and f) rinse repeat on the O side. This is completely plausible. And that's the frigging problem because guess what? If we are doing it, don't you think sanofi and az and Lilly are too?
This industry has lost its mind.

 

[anonymous]

The monthly 2 day field rides need to stop. No other company is doing this these days. If you are a tenured rep, not brand new, you don't need this amount of coaching. It is ABSURD.

4-5 field rides per year is more than enough. If you want a 1 day business strategy meeting once a quarter, that's fine too.

Just please stop with the field rides.

There's so few places we can bring managers any more and these places are fast disappearing as we over inundate what is left.

I don't believe OP story but it's not FAR from the truth.

 

[anonymous]

i was told today that one of our largest customers is closing their doors to all pharma reps. Why? In the past three weeks they have had visits or appointment requests from the following from NNI.....our three person pod, our manager, RBD, Obesity rep, their manager, AE, MSL, Educator and their boss. That's 11 employees!! This customer used to buy into our "changing diabetes" motto...not any more.

You had a customer that believed our TBL or Changing Diabetes taglines? Where the hell do you work, the Land of the Gullible Doctor? That sentence alone made me doubt that this story is real.

 

[anonymous]

The monthly 2 day field rides need to stop. No other company is doing this these days. If you are a tenured rep, not brand new, you don't need this amount of coaching. It is ABSURD.

4-5 field rides per year is more than enough. If you want a 1 day business strategy meeting once a quarter, that's fine too.

Just please stop with the field rides.

There's so few places we can bring managers any more and these places are fast disappearing as we over inundate what is left.

I don't believe OP story but it's not FAR from the truth.

Newsflash: You're not as good at your job as you think you are. If you got the coaching you NEEDED, your manager would be with you 4 days per week, every week.

 

[anonymous]

Newsflash: You're not as good at your job as you think you are. If you got the coaching you NEEDED, your manager would be with you 4 days per week, every week.

Blah blah DBM HOT SHOT blah blah. If you were such a good rep, you'd still be selling and winning trips instead of blaming everything on your people.

Assuming that was true (it isn't) doesn't the buck stop with YOU for hiring ME? You clearly can't run an interview worth a shit if your people require daily monitoring.

 

[anonymous]

Blah blah DBM HOT SHOT blah blah. If you were such a good rep, you'd still be selling and winning trips instead of blaming everything on your people.

Assuming that was true (it isn't) doesn't the buck stop with YOU for hiring ME? You clearly can't run an interview worth a shit if your people require daily monitoring.

Yes. I would have reached the pinnacle of my career in an entry level sales position, just because I was good at it. Great train of thought you have there!

And, I love the fact that you being terrible at your job is the fault of the person who hired you. Let's ignore the career of being terrible and blame it on the guy who spent an hour with you during interviews. Spot on!

You're a joke....and you wonder why you need supervision!!!

 

[anonymous]

Yes. I would have reached the pinnacle of my career in an entry level sales position, just because I was good at it. Great train of thought you have there!

And, I love the fact that you being terrible at your job is the fault of the person who hired you. Let's ignore the career of being terrible and blame it on the guy who spent an hour with you during interviews. Spot on!

You're a joke....and you wonder why you need supervision!!!

Clearly, elementary school level logic eludes you.

If you think your people need daily monitoring, fire them. It's not that hard. Grow a set and get rid of your team and then hire people who can do the job.

Otherwise, you are part of the problem.

People like you are why the industry is what it is today.

Now run a long and approve another expense report, little man.

 

[anonymous]

The monthly 2 day field rides need to stop. No other company is doing this these days. If you are a tenured rep, not brand new, you don't need this amount of coaching. It is ABSURD.

4-5 field rides per year is more than enough. If you want a 1 day business strategy meeting once a quarter, that's fine too.

Just please stop with the field rides.

There's so few places we can bring managers any more and these places are fast disappearing as we over inundate what is left.

I don't believe OP story but it's not FAR from the truth.

What? Don't you see the big picture from Andy or Doug's position? If DBMs are only in the field with DCS 32 days a year, WTF are they doing the OTHER 200 or so days that they're not in the field, or at planning meetings, etc that justifies their 200k (benefits included) annual package?

Someone like ZS Associates is going to be helping us "right-size" for the new world later this year, and they would notice such an incredible waste. They will no doubt recommend that we cut management head count, EXACTLY like they recommended to Sanofi and BI. If Andy or Doug lose a significant number of DBMs, they'd lose a large % of RBDs, too. On and on up the org chart in sales go the pruning shears, and then in marketing.
Come on now, pure new big guy has just proven yet again that in this company, the appearance of busy-ness sells. i say again: the best way to "prove" your worth these days at NNI is to add to your head-count. (See 2012-2015 Novo Nordisk addition of several hundred DCAs, addition of how many VPs in Market Access, expansion of already bloated AE and DE teams,etc )

Hunker down, boys and girls. With exception of deletion of CISK and CLEE from our payrolls, we keep making wrong moves.

 

[anonymous]

Newsflash: You're not as good at your job as you think you are. If you got the coaching you NEEDED, your manager would be with you 4 days per week, every week.

And you can tell just by an anonymous post? Damn, we could let go of 2 of 3 DBMs per pod, and hire you to coach by reading their expense reports! You missed your calling, Sparky!

 

[anonymous]

Clearly, elementary school level logic eludes you.

If you think your people need daily monitoring, fire them. It's not that hard. Grow a set and get rid of your team and then hire people who can do the job.

Otherwise, you are part of the problem.

People like you are why the industry is what it is today.

Now run a long and approve another expense report, little man.

Looks like the industry is 180 degrees out of phase from my first few years. Managers back then DID NOT need to work with reps more than twice a year (once to give them their annual review). Any more time in the field meant you were in trouble. I don't recall when companies mandated excessive field rides as I had moved to specialty sales by that time, but apparently something happened to make them suspicious of reps time in the field. As access continues to drop and managed care rules the roost, drug companies will need to come up with a better model for field sales. If not, good reps will continue to leave and morale will be in the toilet. Just sayin'.

 

[anonymous]

Looks like the industry is 180 degrees out of phase from my first few years. Managers back then DID NOT need to work with reps more than twice a year (once to give them their annual review). Any more time in the field meant you were in trouble. I don't recall when companies mandated excessive field rides as I had moved to specialty sales by that time, but apparently something happened to make them suspicious of reps time in the field. As access continues to drop and managed care rules the roost, drug companies will need to come up with a better model for field sales. If not, good reps will continue to leave and morale will be in the toilet. Just sayin'.

the answer to your question is simple: they have NO NEW ideas and they have rehashed all the old useless ones over and over so now its micromanage the reps to death with ride alongs "yeah that will improve things Andy!" lets do it.

 

[anonymous]

Clearly, elementary school level logic eludes you.

If you think your people need daily monitoring, fire them. It's not that hard. Grow a set and get rid of your team and then hire people who can do the job.

Otherwise, you are part of the problem.

People like you are why the industry is what it is today.

Now run a long and approve another expense report, little man.

Yes. You're bad at your job, you have no desire to get better, you're begging for less supervision, and I'm the problem. Great reasoning. The industry is what it is today because all those things are true about you, yet HR protects you and protects you and protects you b/c they are afraid of being sued. That's the only reason you stay employed as long as you do. Truth hurts, big guy.

 

[anonymous]

Yes. You're bad at your job, you have no desire to get better, you're begging for less supervision, and I'm the problem. Great reasoning. The industry is what it is today because all those things are true about you, yet HR protects you and protects you and protects you b/c they are afraid of being sued. That's the only reason you stay employed as long as you do. Truth hurts, big guy.

uh huh...because the only way a rep has a desire to be better is by constantly being supervised by their manager. Got it. How about the fact that the only reason you guys haven't been slashed in half is because you're constantly tasked with busy work and menial supervision? We don't NEED you, as much as you think we do. The majority of managers don't even deserve to be in the position they're in and got there through nepotism and favors. There are some good ones out there, heck my DBM is one of them, but I still don't need to be with him every single month. This job isn't rocket science. We have a POA - we execute on the POA - we adjust as necessary...but please tell me how I need to 4S and open purposefully more!

Looking forward to the day when they finally realize that middle management is the poison ivy of corporate America, gradually suffocating the life out of productivity and results.