It is OK for some taxes to be raised, just not those on the wealthy.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap...BU77yg?docId=5e01f49a8f5546578066437dd437299d
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap...BU77yg?docId=5e01f49a8f5546578066437dd437299d
Republicans want to RAISE taxes?
- Thread starter Rocknwolf
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You are correct. Since you liberals love John Maynard Keynes so much, I'm sure you know all about monetary theory, so you won't have any trouble understanding this: Suppose we doubled the income tax on millionaires, charged a 10% annual excise on private jets, and taxed ceo bonuses at 70%.
How much of the annual US spending (almost said annual budget, but thanks to you and your buddies we haven't had one for three years) would that money cover? Answer=about $1 billion
Once again, applying monetary theory, what would be the effect on job growth of taxing the shit out of all those rich guys? Answer: a very, very large negative number. Net effect on the treasury? Probably near Zero.
Now suppose instead we go back to charging 15% income tax on everybody who has taxable income over 25,000/year. How much would we get? Answer: about=$100 billion. Nobody is quite sure, but expert witnesses have testified that $1 billion would last the government about ten minutes.
The operative principle is simple: Go Where The Money Is. Myself, I think we should do both. It won't raise that much more money to give you your precious "millionaire" tax, but at least it might put a stop to the Democratic Communist class warfare and get OBlahBlah to STFU. Maybe even you would stop whining for a few minutes.
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Want to? They already did! The Obamacare law that nobody read did that by cutting $500 billion out of that budget and added it back to cover healthcare.
Naturally, they applied their magic political pocket calculators to the equation and deducted the $500 billion from the estimated cost of Obamacare without adding back the spending.
Breakingnews
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- Breakingnews Aug 23, 2011 at 02:55: PM
Breakingnews
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Why do you continue to waste band space here?
A valid question. While it is an interesting short term plan to recuce what is removed from people's hard earned money, how is this plan viable when social security is in such a mess? If you're keeping up in the news, the disability portion has been flooded because of unemployment and is essentially decimated. This is just another card game and not a real, sustainable cut. What is needed are real cuts, not something that looks pretty on paper or that allows odummy to try to make a political statement. It's sort of like reducing withholding in his big 'tax cut for most Americans' but conveniently missing that many had to pay it back the following April' So yes, republicans want to end this temporary payroll tax reduction since it is just smoke and mirrors and is not sustainable - unless, of course, the plan is to dramatically cut social security immediately.
We must expand the tax base. There is no reason all people don't have some skin in the game. None. While removing loopholes or means of hiding income is needed, an approach of taxing anyone's actual income if they happen to make more than you is extraordinarily stupid. Profits are not a bad word. Success should not be penalized. CEOs have been vilified but most gave up the rest of their life to get to where they are. If you have a problem with what someone earns, take it to the company's board. How much someone is allowed to earn, how much is 'fair', is not something the government can or should dictate. We are supposed to be a free country. I am far more appalled at the asinine incomes of sports figures and actors than I am business people, but hey, someone is willing to pay them their outrageous incomes.
A profitable company should pay income taxes on all profits not reinvested in the US. All individuals should pay something in from their incomes to support the programs they want provided by government. However, having my share over 30% and someone else's share below 0% is not even close to fair. A flat tax would still take more dollars from higher income earners - an extreme escalation of percentages is not necessary and is a penalty for success.
As mentioned above, I agree. I think I told you once before that when I went into the Army, the only ones that made more than $2,000/ month were 4-Stars. As a 2nd John I think I got around $320/month, and EVERYBODY had taxes withheld. You got most of it back at the end of the year, but it was still taken out.
It has always pissed me off that so many people don't pay anything. It kind of snuck up on us, and all of a sudden half of the people were takers rather than givers.
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34.............And this article was posted on Lewrockwell.com of all places. A pro unfettered capitalism website....to say the least.
What a truly sad, sad, sad state our country is in...indeed.
http://lewrockwell.com/rep2/us-middle-class-rapidly-shrinking.html
Alibi Ike Obama is doin a heckuva job ain't he?
A sad commentary indeed. I have to believe things will continue to get worse before they get better and never before has the world faced this combination of economic disaster. However, this is America and we don't give up easily. In time, there will be recovery and we will rebuild. Like the depression years, those living today will make different choices, live very different lives, and look at the world through different eyes as a result. But we are not about to give up and go home and die. I firmly believe it will be American's capitalistic, can do spirit, still at the core, that will revitalize the nation. Despite how bad things are, in some areas, we are better off than in the depression era. Unfortunately, spending as a percentage of GNP is way out of wack and I hope we don't face a world war to spur the recovery.
I am extremely thankful my kids are educated in areas where unemployment is unlikely and they have plan Bs in place. Unfortunately, many will not be so lucky with either health, education, or other limitations to their ability to survive. This may even provide some correction to the entitlement mentality of many, or provide insight for those whining because their jobs aren't satisfying enough. We have an administration intent on repeating the mistakes of Roosevelt but who compounds it with current day lack of responsibility and accountability. However, I trust the nation will find a leader worthy of the position and the spirit of the country.
Finally, it is past time for all of us to reach out to our elders, something generally missing from our society. Find those who lived through the mid 1930s and were old enough to be paying attention. Considering this would put them in their 80s today, start talking to them now before it is too late.
tinkrbelle
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- tinkrbelle Aug 31, 2011 at 10:31: PM
tinkrbelle
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"Finally, it is past time for all of us to reach out to our elders, something generally missing from our society. Find those who lived through the mid 1930s and were old enough to be paying attention. Considering this would put them in their 80s today, start talking to them now before it is too late."
Actually they are in their late 90's. I have 2 great Aunts who lived through the depression and they tell us their stories. To sum it up: They spent most of their lives living very frugally, in small houses, that were paid off.
During the depression they had to ration everything, their meals consisted of bread, rice, corn and milk- since these were cheap foods; they all shared 1 bedroom- all 5 kids-, and one bathroom---like the majority of Europeans do now.
Americans just don't know this way of life, we have all been very spoiled and felt entitleted to alwys have the best in life, party all the time, and now we are finding ourselves in a new situation we all don't know how to do deal with because we don't have the skills or tools to cope. Our poorest in the country today have it much better than the people in the depression.
I think we need to stop blaming the government, learn new skills, toughen up and make our own way in the world. This is a transitional period for the world, and it will be survival of the fittest.
The unemployement rate is HUGE, and yes jobs are being eliminated- but we have to create our jobs, and so will our kids. They will have to study something in college that they will be EMPLOYABLE for, not Liberal Arts or Comminications. And yes the rest of the world is passing us by becuase many of our kids are spending more time doing drugs and partying rather than studying hard like their Asian/European/Indian/ etc peers.
I think the blame lies on us as individuals.
Actually they are in their late 90's. I have 2 great Aunts who lived through the depression and they tell us their stories. To sum it up: They spent most of their lives living very frugally, in small houses, that were paid off.
During the depression they had to ration everything, their meals consisted of bread, rice, corn and milk- since these were cheap foods; they all shared 1 bedroom- all 5 kids-, and one bathroom---like the majority of Europeans do now.
Americans just don't know this way of life, we have all been very spoiled and felt entitleted to alwys have the best in life, party all the time, and now we are finding ourselves in a new situation we all don't know how to do deal with because we don't have the skills or tools to cope. Our poorest in the country today have it much better than the people in the depression.
I think we need to stop blaming the government, learn new skills, toughen up and make our own way in the world. This is a transitional period for the world, and it will be survival of the fittest.
The unemployement rate is HUGE, and yes jobs are being eliminated- but we have to create our jobs, and so will our kids. They will have to study something in college that they will be EMPLOYABLE for, not Liberal Arts or Comminications. And yes the rest of the world is passing us by becuase many of our kids are spending more time doing drugs and partying rather than studying hard like their Asian/European/Indian/ etc peers.
I think the blame lies on us as individuals.
Breakingnews
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- Breakingnews Aug 31, 2011 at 10:41: PM
Breakingnews
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Makes alot of sense to me - Great post.
The whole "republicans are for the rich" thing is really played out. The richest politicians are all libtards. And you never hear them crying about Hollywood, or GE.
The worst years were actually around 1937, so you could find some in their late 70s who can relate to the immediate post years. I've shared before my folks grew up in abject poverty. Fathers died before they were teens and many siblings died before they hit 5 years old. The stories they have shared are of mashed potato sandwiches. It wasn't milk but milk powder. Everyone worked and added their earnings to the family kitty. We didn't have much when I was growing up. One bathroom and 3 bedrooms for 9 people. A heating pad for ear infections. No need for glasses - just move the kid to the front of the classroom. A favorite desert was white bread with margarine topped with white sugar - sugar and margarine were in scare supply through the wars and this was a huge treat my parents carried over through my childhood.
While we would not wish this economic mess on anyone, I guess your comments summarize the point of my post. We will survive and perhaps even learn and grow from the experience. We'll spend money on college for degrees with futures instead of just meandering through.Perhaps our children and grandchildren will learn valuable work skills and return to solid work ethics and greater sense of character too. Americans are stronger and more resourceful than we are given credit for.
Doc Who
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- Doc Who Aug 31, 2011 at 11:43: PM
Doc Who
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"Perhaps our children and grandchildren will learn valuable work skills and return to solid work ethics "
How fucking stupid do you think our children are? They will be the ones that will want our Unions back. They will be the ones that will want a decent pay for a decent working day. They will be the ones that will demand CEOs give it back to the co. Our children have valuable work ethics. They see their parents work hard just to see their houses taken from under them.
Fuck your work ethics. IT DOES NOT WORK FOR THE LITTLE GUY.
My kids have great work ethics. They understand unions price Americans out of the market and also that they are being asked to pay for trumped up pension and retirement plans due to union control. They work hard and don't expect the companies where they work to be their family or social worker.
No one takes a house from under their parents. You pay the bill or you lose the house, car, whatever. All you have to do is view the company boards to see people whining about 6 figure jobs and demanding overtime because they aren' 9-5 jobs, or because they are not 'fulfilling'. It's a damned job.
Work ethics have worked out quite well for me, my family, relatives, and extended family. They laugh at those who work half-ass and then are the first to be let go.
Doc Who
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- Doc Who Sep 01, 2011 at 08:43: AM
Doc Who
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I'm talking about the company that is sold or merges with another and folks lose their job through no fault of their own. These folks that are in their 50s will not have the same job or make the same amount they did in their last job if they can get a job. These folks played by the rules. Their work ethic was second to none. Now their house is being foreclosed on.
This is happening through out the country after all the BU$H tax cuts and after the extension of the BU$H tax cuts.
With less Union influence the more the gap widens between those that have and those that have not.
One more thing, I would not personally want to work for a Union. But without them this country's people will be a lot poorer.
You are making broad assumptions that do not always hold true. Perhaps I am the exception to your first paragraph, but I know plenty my age who continued to add job skills, education, and information and are making as much now and found jobs. True, it can take longer but this is not a foregone conclusion. Luck plays a role but so does seeing the writing on the wall and taking proactive steps to prepare before s*it hits. I warned my own father for 4 years that his company was showing all the signs of failure but he had worked there since he was 16. He made it through to retirement but it was hell when they were purchased by a foreign company. Many just go to work and have the work ethic part, but don't lift their heads up enough to see what is happening.
Those I see stuck in your example, with good work ethics 1)Stayed in the same job with no advancement for too long, 2)Have resumes that look like they have no stability (and yes, it is hard to balance 1 and 2), 3)Are in glutted markets and are unable or unwilling to move to a better market, 4)Have health or other issues that make them less employable, and 5)in pharma in particular stayed in what was supposed to be an entry level job well into their 50s. At least in pharma, the job losses had absolutely nothing to do with Bush tax cuts. Nothing. It was corporate excess and the stupid share of voice model.
Obviously there are many other examples and the worst are the stories where an older, experienced worker has to train the younger, cheaper replacement. But for every story I hear like that, I can tell you one of workers willing to take pay or benefit cuts to prevent layoffs. Not everyone is given that choice, obviously. Companies are not always fair but this is not a new phenomenon. When unemployment was arguably too low, 4% or so, people who couldn't walk and talk at the same time had jobs. Sadly, even those with solid qualifications grew complacent and saw no reason to get additional education or to push to learn more about other departments, or to define what was changing and how to stay viable. Now corporate greed and a market with high unemployment allows them to make decisions that put older workers at risk. Cutting costs is acceptable right now, no matter what. Again, not the fault of the Bush tax cuts. I could just as easily put the entire blame on fannie and freddie but we all know the reality is more complex.There were many trained to be steel workers with no other skills who ended up out of work in the past.
Unions had their place and were responsible for passage of important laws about worker safety and hours. However, the entitlement and benefits of union workers today is doing far more harm than good IMO. We've have priced ourselves out of being a productive country. Heck, even a highly subsidized solar industry cannot survive against foreign competition. Remember too that unions were before all of the alphabet organizations like OSHA and I think their time of benefit has passed.
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Doc Who
Active Member
- Doc Who Sep 02, 2011 at 05:35: AM
Doc Who
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I think we all make broad assumptions here.
As Unions fade the widening gap between those that have and the have nots grow larger. When this happens and your middle class disappears, this will make our country into a second or third world type. Jobs will pay less as gas and food prices increases. Without Unions the future looks rather bleak.
When and if Unions disappear we will once again find that we need them.
I did not mean to say that job losses were tied to the BU$H tax cuts. But cutting more taxes to buisness will not increase employment.
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