Progel/neomend

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no kidding. right there with you 2:35. not sure why idiots like that even have to post. are they that bored and have that little brain cells. CafePharma can be used to exchange some information between the ground floor people selling in the field.

so, the guy says Progel is a blockbuster and your an idiot to ask. So why not answer these questions. But first lets start with some facts.
1) Progel was acquired with ~ $22M in sales. I know personnaly the channel was stuffed as much as possible to get to that number. Not that there is a problem with the product but that is what small venture companies try to do to get bought.
2) There are about 100K applicable lung sealing procedures which includes lobectomy, segmentectomy, and if you want to be generous i will throw in wedge resections but that is being generous. Find a surgeon who is really concerned about air leaks with wedge resections. Don't kid me with including lung biospy as a potential application for a lung sealant.
3) Progel sells for $850 per 4 ml. Yes, only product indicated for lung sealing, but also twice as expensive as Baxter's Coseal at $450, Bioglue at $600, and fibrin sealants at $500 (10 ml kit).
4) Progel clinical data was not very compelling. 1 day shorter hospitalization time.
Granted it was applied only on active leaks and not prophylactically, but that was an FDA mandate.
5) Many procedure going VAT and they are on fast track programs so releasing within 2-3 days after surgery. But will not release earlier than 2 days, so there is a tight window to show benefit
6) about 1/3 of proactive surgeons use some type of sealant for lung sealing. the other 2/3 just don't believe in them, are not allowed to use them because of cost, or just don't think about it enough to make a buying decision

So my questions:
A) So, let us assume that 40% of 100K procedure start uses only Progel (assuming complete canniblization of Coseal, Fibrin sealant, Bioglue, Duraseal, etc). 40,000 x $850= $34 M. Is that your blockbuster considering it was bought with $22M in existing sales??
Answering your counter response: so you argue that you will get more than 40% adoption, of an adjuctive biomaterial that is not reimbursed, with very marginal clinical outcomes data. Please find me one other biomaterial that is used at that level in todays healthcare market with shrinking budgets.
b) ok, so you decide to add another indication like Vascular sealing. Coseal and Bioglue are the predominant vascular sealants that are synthetic. Fibrin sealant makes up the rest (Tisseel and Evicel). They are about $60 M combined. That also took them years to get to those levels. So lets say optomistically you get half of both of their share, you get $30 M more. Now you have ~$60 M. Is that what you define as blockbuster?

so please use the little bit of brain you have left, stop watching the porn for a minute, and try to answer with something legible.
 






If you knew Davol and where this is going, you would be punching yourself in the face for being so ignorant. Just know this is going places you wouldn't think of. And this sales force will exceed expectations.
 






ok, fair enough. You of course must then be referring to some new indicated use for Progel beyond lung sealing or vascular sealing. Who knows, Drug delivery, hernia mesh fixation, etc. So, given this is a Class III product, and anything new will require complete clinical development (phase II/III, etc) then whatever it is will likely be 6+ years away. Make it a combo product (like add a drug or biologic) then tack on another 3+ years. So a blockbuster in 6-9 years. would have been easier if you specified it that way
 






Fair enough yourself smarty pants. This was a good strategic buy and that will prove itself in 2013. You seem to know an awfull lot about this and perhaps you lost out on the deal. Move on and quit trying to second guess a solid move.
 






I heard that reps are using Progel to tack this Cesium-131 product to the lung with Progel. Way to go Davol TM's! Sell off-label. I smell a Qui Tam about to brew! I guess that's what you mean about the Davol Way.

Unfortunately John Groetelaars and Chris Ernster could care less about patient safety.
 






Nailed it! Progel may do well for the 1st half of 2013, but only because the Progel reps are milking the comp plan, loading shelves, then finding new companies this summer. Then you'll have a bunch of hernia reps selling to CT surgeons in their spare time. I can't imagine 2013 will end well. Not to mention the always looming off-label promotion bomb that could go off at any moment.
 






Progel reps are in no way milking it, especially in March where the majority of reps did not hit their numbers and some came under the 50 pct threshold and made no commission check. Reps have already started to leave. Davol TM's don't really want to sell it anyway. 2013 will not be a good year, unless you think 23 million is a good year.
 












I see no reason to have a complete dedicated sales force for this product alone.. The reps that took/have this job will get very bored quickly and find out very soon that there will be very few physicians that will use it... Total joke.. Better keep your resume up to date..:)
 






























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