Opinions...Cytyc or Tripath(thinprep or surepath)

Quote
























As detailed in a recent Technical Update from Cytyc, the Thinprep filter can be blocked by lubricant. This is similar to the filter being blocked by blood, mucous, and inflammation causing the pathologist to miss important diagnostic cells. The lubricant is used as the speculum is inserted so it happens a lot more frequently than one would think.

Surepath has seen significant uptake in both Quest and Labcorp. They have also done well with Labone, Kaiser, and Ameripath. Cytyc still has the majority share but Tripath is the fastest growing liquid based cytology method.
 






What you fail to mention is that physicians/practitioners are not supposed to use lubricant on the speculum. 90% only use warm water as a lubricant. Out of 300 clients doing paps we only had a problem with 2 of them using lubricant. We have no clients using surepath. No one even asks about it. Tripath is the fastest growing because cytyc owns the market. Tripath has nowhere to go but up. By the way I run the marketing department for an independent pathology lab. I don't know any surepath reps, but the cytyc reps say that cytyc compensates them very well.
As detailed in a recent Technical Update from Cytyc, the Thinprep filter can be blocked by lubricant. This is similar to the filter being blocked by blood, mucous, and inflammation causing the pathologist to miss important diagnostic cells. The lubricant is used as the speculum is inserted so it happens a lot more frequently than one would think.

What you fail to mention is that physicians/practitioners are not supposed to use lubricant on the speculum. 90% only use warm water as a lubricant. Out of 300 clients doing paps we only had a problem with 2 of them using lubricant. We have no clients using surepath. No one even asks about it. Tripath is the fastest growing because cytyc owns the market. Tripath has nowhere to go but up. By the way I run the marketing department for an independent pathology lab. I don't know any surepath reps, but the cytyc reps say that cytyc compensates them very well.

Surepath has seen significant uptake in both Quest and Labcorp. They have also done well with Labone, Kaiser, and Ameripath. Cytyc still has the majority share but Tripath is the fastest growing liquid based cytology method.

[/ QUOTE ]
Click to expand...
 






When you have all the business (Cytyc) it is easy to say you are the fastest growing. Going from 5% to 8% share for TriPath is a big move as a percentage. Still would not consider TriPath.
 












Re: thinprep or surepath

Hiya! I was googling "thinprep lubricant" to do some online research into the problem. My lab does both TP & SP. I see so many fewer SP's with lubricant present, so either most of those client's aren't using lube, or the SP liquid is much, much better at dealing with lubes.

Now, the problem we have is with ThinPrep's. Lube presents itself in 2 ways that we know of, either as thick, blue ribbons that trap cells & inflam, or as pinkish or bluish granular debris in the background with very scant cellularity.

We mentioned this problem to our Cytyc rep the last time he was around, and he said, yup, both those presentations were due to lube. He told us that, if the client's are unwilling to use just water, they should use KY brand jelly. I'm currently taking a survey of all the clients whose TP's show these problems. I'm calling to ask
 






Re: thinprep or surepath

Hiya! I was googling "thinprep lubricant" to do some online research into the problem. My lab does both TP & SP. I see so many fewer SP's with lubricant present, so either most of those client's aren't using lube, or the SP liquid is much, much better at dealing with lubes.

Now, the problem we have is with ThinPrep's. Lube presents itself in 2 ways that we know of, either as thick, blue ribbons that trap cells & inflam, or as pinkish or bluish granular debris in the background with very scant cellularity.

We mentioned this problem to our Cytyc rep the last time he was around, and he said, yup, both those presentations were due to lube. He told us that, if the client's are unwilling to use just water, they should use KY brand jelly. I'm currently taking a survey of all the clients whose TP's show these problems. I'm calling to ask what lube they stock their exam rooms with.

BTW, I'm a cytotech, if you couldn't tell by now.
 






Re: thinprep or surepath

Cytyc addressed this with their customers not too long ago. It's an issue on occasion, but you contrast that to the other benefits of thinprep. Enhanced imaging, three molecular tests approved off of the vial, FDA documented glandular disease detection improvement and mountains of clinical evidence that confirm its effectiveness. To contrast that against surepath, for every good surepath study there's another one that shows comparable performance to conventional paps.


April 14, 2005

RE: Updated Sample Collection Information for Pap Tests

Dear Clinical Provider:

I am following up on a letter that was sent to you in August 2004 regarding the use of lubricants during the collection of cervical cytology. Cytyc Corporation has evaluated a variety of popular lubricants and found that those containing an ingredient known as “carbomers” or “carbopol polymers” are prone to interfere with popular liquid based Pap Tests. Cytyc does not recommend the use of lubricants since the ingredients within the lubricant may not be listed. However, if a lubricant must be used due to patient discomfort or use of a plastic speculum it should be done sparingly with care to avoid the tip of the speculum.

Usage of lubricant is not recommended by published guidelines (NCCLS Document GP15-A, ACOG Practice Bulletin, no. 45, August 2003). Its use can adversely affect the cervical cytology collection process in many ways including the following:

• Abundant lubricant on the cervical face will require removal with swabbing of the cervix which theoretically could remove exfoliated diagnostic cells.
• Residual lubricant could interfere with the endocervical brush and spatula or cervical broom in the acquisition of cervical cells.
• Residual lubricant may create a potential immiscible interface in alcohol based liquid Pap solutions leading to potential agglutination and cellular loss.

For those situations identified above in which a lubricant must be used, the following table lists lubricants that do not contain the interfering substance and medical supply distributors known to us. Please note that this list is not exhaustive and is merely a starting point provided for your reference.

KY Jelly • PSS World Medical
• www.drugstore.com
Surgilube • PSS World Medical
• Cardinal Health
Astroglide • PSS World Medical
• www.drugstore.com
Crystelle Check with local distributors

If you have any questions please contact Cytyc’s Technical Support Department at 1-800-442-9892, option 6.

Sincerely,

James Linder, MD
Chief Medical Officer

KY Jelly is a registered trademark of Johnson & Johnson
Surgilube is a registered trademark of E. Fougera & Co.
Astroglide is a registered trademark of Biofilm, Inc.
Crystelle is a registered trademark of Deltex Pharmaceuticals
 












Which one should you choose? Are you a practitioner? If so, I pray to God for your patients if you are seeking advice from these boards. Of course, you are not a practitioner!

Which one should you choose? Are you someone who has job offers on the table from both companies and your trying to decide which product to sell? One-in-a-trillion chance of that. Once again, that is not the case.

Which one should you choose? Are you a patient and your doctor is giving you the choice? NOT HAPPENING

Which one should you choose? I'd say that is simply a rhetorical question that you have thrown out as a flamer. "Cytyc or Tripath"? Only a SP rep is going to be flaming this question because you are the only one with something to gain (and you are desparate to gain). Get a life!!!

I am a sales rep with Quest Diagnostics. We offer both tests so I defer to the professional opinions of the healthcare professionals to which I sell. In my territory there is a 98% marketshare with TP and that number doesn't seem to be moving much.

Here's my perspective on this -- Quest used to have a preferred relationship with TriPath which meant they made more $$ on the test. Therefore, they offered more testing options with SP and limited out-of-the-vial options with TP. Then they loaded us up with "training" and "information" and sent us out to hammer home the message with docs. I got beat up day after day because I was sent out to promote one over the other. Day after day -- practitioners continually told me that they were happy with the results of TP, had used it for years and had no issues.

Sure, SP is the fastest growing test. You start with nothing and grow it to something. That is rapid growth compared to the company who has 98% marketshare to start.



They are both great tests.
 












Wow. This site is hilarious. First time poster.

First of all, Monoprep is no longer in business.

Thin Prep has a 25.3% False Positive Rate with their IG Pap. If it is not image guided then it is 27.3%. This can be found in their package insert. This means that 1 out of every 4 women will have to have anxiety thinking she could have cancer. She will have a colpo and they will find nothing. She may be have an ASCUS pap but be HPV negative. This makes it very hard for doctors to triage their patients.

Harvard, Yale, Cleveland Clinic, Mayo Clinic, Johns Hopkins, etc. are all exclusive users of SurePath if that tells you anything. I can go on and on.

New info is coming out soon and Cytyc doesn't stand a chance. Their imager PI states that that it is equal to manual testing and they only increase ASCUS...not HSIL+ or cancer. They also have a history of missing cancer. We suspect it is from their filter problems or from the methanol shrinking the size and shape of the nucleus making the slide difficult to read...not to mention they throw 37% in the trash before it is every sent to the lab.
 












Surepath is the better methodology. The slides are cleaner and easier to read than Cytyc. The Cytyc Imager is horrible and the number of slides that Lab Corp demands of its' techs for the Imager is absurd.
 






CYTYC - hands down.

Surepath - Failed several times in their submission of FDA approval for out of vial testing for HPV!!!! Why - because the whole process is crap!

Plus - Cytyc is bringing out their HPV line in the spring that will yield strain #'s and not just a high grade pos/low grade pos.


CYTYC!!!!!!!!

Good Luck!
 






Anonymous said:
CYTYC - hands down.

Surepath - Failed several times in their submission of FDA approval for out of vial testing for HPV!!!! Why - because the whole process is crap!

Plus - Cytyc is bringing out their HPV line in the spring that will yield strain #'s and not just a high grade pos/low grade pos.


CYTYC!!!!!!!!

Good Luck!
Click to expand...

Exclusive HPV FDA Approval?!!!

Is that the best you can come up with? I mean really!

You know, I honestly think I'd have a heart-attack if just one of you Cytyc reps would grow some balls, step up to the plate, and simply "BE HONEST" with your physicians. You know, as well as everyone else, that FDA Approval means absolutely nothing! Why don't you FOR ONCE, tell your offices the truth..and that is that SP is FDA APPROVED for what it was designed for (like you) as an LBC PAP Test to help detect Cervical Cancer?

Now, as for the HPV/FDA BS that you like to always throw out. You always FAIL TO MENTION that regardless of FDA APPROVAL of something OR NOT, ALL labs that decide to run any tests MUST BE VALIDATED THROUGH C.L.I.A. In other words, FDA APPROVAL of a test doesn't mean a damned thing unless C.L.I.A. gives the lab its blessing on ANY lab procedure whether FDA APPROVED OR NOT. YOU KNOW THAT CYTYC, why don't you have the balls to tell your physicians that?! Is it because they teach you in "Cytyc Propaganda Training 101", that if word ever got out of what was just revealed above to your Docs, that your one and only "arrow" in your quiver wouldn't mean shit?

Physicians and clinicians do NON-FDA APPROVED Tests EVERYDAY. And why is that Cytyc? Oh, can't remember...allow me to refresh your 25 IQ brain cells...

****BECAUSE THE LABS THE DOCTORS SEND THESE SAMPLES TO VALIDATE THE LAB PROCEDURES THROUGH (and TO) C.L.I.A.***

HERE’S THE FUNNIEST PART OF THE WHOLE THING…

What you Cytyc morons fail to realize, is that every time you mention that SP is not FDA HPV approved at this time (and you know that it is not a question of "if", but simply a question of "when"), and also in the same breath, fail to mention to the doctors about the validations that labs do for C.L.I.A. (as I mentioned above), then you are also insulting all of your LABS (i.e. "CLIENTS") that offer ThinPrep and SurePath as an option, by implying that labs like LabCorp. Quest, Spectrum, etc., run "illegal", "unauthorized”, "non-approved" (and whatever else word you'd like to insert there) in their labs. WOW!!! WHAT A GREAT STRATEGY GUYS!!!! INSULT YOUR CUSTOMERS (i.e. LABS) AND QUESTION THEIR CREDIBILITY. WOW, GIVE YOUR TRAINING STAFF A GOLD STAR AND A RAISE ON THAT ONE…

NOW…TO ANY DOCTORS READING THIS POST REGARDING CYTYC'S WEAK & LAME (AND DARE I SAY "ONLY" COUNTER-POINT/ARGUMENT AGAINST USING SP), I ASK YOU TO SIMPLY REMEMBER THIS....

*********

DO YOU THINK NATIONAL, MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR LABS LIKE LABCORP, WOULD EVEN FOR ONE (1) NANO-SECOND, RUN TESTS THAT WERE NOT AUTHORIZED? DO YOU THINK THAT THEY WOULD RUN ANY TESTS THAT WOULD EVEN REMOTELY JEOPARDIZE THEIR MEDICAL CREDIBILITY, RESPECT, STANDING IN THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY, AND LASTLY THEIR B*U*S*I*N*E*S*S, IF THEY DIDN'T HAVE THEIR DUCKS (AND ALL OTHER LABS THAT DO HPV, CT, GC, ETC. OFF OF A SUREPATH PAP) IN A ROW, IF THEY DIDN'T ALREADY HAVE SOME TYPE OF MECHANISM IN PLACE TO OVERCOME THAT PATHETIC, WEAK, & LAME ARGUMENT THAT CYTYC CONSTANTLY PULLS OUT OF THEIR SHALLOW SELLING BAG? WHY? SIMPLE...BECAUSE THAT'S THE ONLY THING THAT THEY CAN SAY THAT IS REMOTELY CONSTRUDE AS A "NEGATIVE' SELLING POINT AGAINST SP. AND THEIR POINT IS WEAK, BECAUSE THEY KNOW THAT THEY KNOW HAVE A SCIENTIFICALLY INFERIOR LBC ON THE MARKET, AND THERE’S NOT A DAMNED THING THAT THEY CAN SAY OR DO ABOUT IT.

IF there are any doctor’s on this post who want to know more about the benefits of SP (and additional benefits), of using SP over TP, simply contact BD and they be sure to contact your states appropriate sales rep.

TO ALL DOCS, CLINICIANS, & PRACTITIONERS…. Simply just remember this…

OBVIOUSLY our process is as sound as it is scientifically superior over TP (highest disease detection, 100 % Sample Collection, Lowest Unsat Rate, etc.). Otherwise, why would some of the highest and most well-respected medical teaching facilities in the United States and (arguably WORLD) such as MD Anderson, Johns Hopkins, Yale, Cleveland Clinic, Dartmouth, MASS General, etc., utilize SP almost 100 % (if not 100 %) SUREPATH, if they didn’t think it was the best LBC PAP Test on the Market today?


I REST MY CASE!!!
 






Anonymous said:
Exclusive HPV FDA Approval?!!!

Is that the best you can come up with? I mean really!

You know, I honestly think I'd have a heart-attack if just one of you Cytyc reps would grow some balls, step up to the plate, and simply "BE HONEST" with your physicians. You know, as well as everyone else, that FDA Approval means absolutely nothing! Why don't you FOR ONCE, tell your offices the truth..and that is that SP is FDA APPROVED for what it was designed for (like you) as an LBC PAP Test to help detect Cervical Cancer?

Now, as for the HPV/FDA BS that you like to always throw out. You always FAIL TO MENTION that regardless of FDA APPROVAL of something OR NOT, ALL labs that decide to run any tests MUST BE VALIDATED THROUGH C.L.I.A. In other words, FDA APPROVAL of a test doesn't mean a damned thing unless C.L.I.A. gives the lab its blessing on ANY lab procedure whether FDA APPROVED OR NOT. YOU KNOW THAT CYTYC, why don't you have the balls to tell your physicians that?! Is it because they teach you in "Cytyc Propaganda Training 101", that if word ever got out of what was just revealed above to your Docs, that your one and only "arrow" in your quiver wouldn't mean shit?

Physicians and clinicians do NON-FDA APPROVED Tests EVERYDAY. And why is that Cytyc? Oh, can't remember...allow me to refresh your 25 IQ brain cells...

****BECAUSE THE LABS THE DOCTORS SEND THESE SAMPLES TO VALIDATE THE LAB PROCEDURES THROUGH (and TO) C.L.I.A.***

HERE’S THE FUNNIEST PART OF THE WHOLE THING…

What you Cytyc morons fail to realize, is that every time you mention that SP is not FDA HPV approved at this time (and you know that it is not a question of "if", but simply a question of "when"), and also in the same breath, fail to mention to the doctors about the validations that labs do for C.L.I.A. (as I mentioned above), then you are also insulting all of your LABS (i.e. "CLIENTS") that offer ThinPrep and SurePath as an option, by implying that labs like LabCorp. Quest, Spectrum, etc., run "illegal", "unauthorized”, "non-approved" (and whatever else word you'd like to insert there) in their labs. WOW!!! WHAT A GREAT STRATEGY GUYS!!!! INSULT YOUR CUSTOMERS (i.e. LABS) AND QUESTION THEIR CREDIBILITY. WOW, GIVE YOUR TRAINING STAFF A GOLD STAR AND A RAISE ON THAT ONE…

NOW…TO ANY DOCTORS READING THIS POST REGARDING CYTYC'S WEAK & LAME (AND DARE I SAY "ONLY" COUNTER-POINT/ARGUMENT AGAINST USING SP), I ASK YOU TO SIMPLY REMEMBER THIS....

*********

DO YOU THINK NATIONAL, MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR LABS LIKE LABCORP, WOULD EVEN FOR ONE (1) NANO-SECOND, RUN TESTS THAT WERE NOT AUTHORIZED? DO YOU THINK THAT THEY WOULD RUN ANY TESTS THAT WOULD EVEN REMOTELY JEOPARDIZE THEIR MEDICAL CREDIBILITY, RESPECT, STANDING IN THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY, AND LASTLY THEIR B*U*S*I*N*E*S*S, IF THEY DIDN'T HAVE THEIR DUCKS (AND ALL OTHER LABS THAT DO HPV, CT, GC, ETC. OFF OF A SUREPATH PAP) IN A ROW, IF THEY DIDN'T ALREADY HAVE SOME TYPE OF MECHANISM IN PLACE TO OVERCOME THAT PATHETIC, WEAK, & LAME ARGUMENT THAT CYTYC CONSTANTLY PULLS OUT OF THEIR SHALLOW SELLING BAG? WHY? SIMPLE...BECAUSE THAT'S THE ONLY THING THAT THEY CAN SAY THAT IS REMOTELY CONSTRUDE AS A "NEGATIVE' SELLING POINT AGAINST SP. AND THEIR POINT IS WEAK, BECAUSE THEY KNOW THAT THEY KNOW HAVE A SCIENTIFICALLY INFERIOR LBC ON THE MARKET, AND THERE’S NOT A DAMNED THING THAT THEY CAN SAY OR DO ABOUT IT.

IF there are any doctor’s on this post who want to know more about the benefits of SP (and additional benefits), of using SP over TP, simply contact BD and they be sure to contact your states appropriate sales rep.

TO ALL DOCS, CLINICIANS, & PRACTITIONERS…. Simply just remember this…

OBVIOUSLY our process is as sound as it is scientifically superior over TP (highest disease detection, 100 % Sample Collection, Lowest Unsat Rate, etc.). Otherwise, why would some of the highest and most well-respected medical teaching facilities in the United States and (arguably WORLD) such as MD Anderson, Johns Hopkins, Yale, Cleveland Clinic, Dartmouth, MASS General, etc., utilize SP almost 100 % (if not 100 %) SUREPATH, if they didn’t think it was the best LBC PAP Test on the Market today?


I REST MY CASE!!!
Click to expand...

Obviously you are getting your ass kicked by TP and have to come on this site to bitch. Why does TP have most of the Market?
 






Top Bottom
Back
Quote