Merck started the downfall of pharma

[Anonymous]

In the early 80's Merck was the first company to start chasing the "share of voice" concept and went to multi-rep territories when the other companies had 1 rep for 1 territory. The strange thing is that Merck didnt need reps to sell their drugs at this time with Mevacor, Vasotec, etc. the absolute market leaders. They got greedy. they wanted more than market dominance, they wanted it all. So the reps that were there were joined by "Merckettes" with some drug knowledge and extra "bells and whistles". This was the end of ethical Detailing and the move to smooze-selling that prevails today. When you get laid-off by Merck, realize that they started it all. Merck has always been a market leader, even if it is leading the others off the cliff.

 

[Anonymous]

Agreed. Hoisted by their own petard.

 

[Anonymous]

In the early 80's Merck was the first company to start chasing the "share of voice" concept and went to multi-rep territories when the other companies had 1 rep for 1 territory. The strange thing is that Merck didnt need reps to sell their drugs at this time with Mevacor, Vasotec, etc. the absolute market leaders. They got greedy. they wanted more than market dominance, they wanted it all. So the reps that were there were joined by "Merckettes" with some drug knowledge and extra "bells and whistles". This was the end of ethical Detailing and the move to smooze-selling that prevails today. When you get laid-off by Merck, realize that they started it all. Merck has always been a market leader, even if it is leading the others off the cliff.

Disagreed. Unless you were with Merck already in the early 80's and speaking from experience. The first expansion was truly needed. Within a few years we launched Timoptic, Vasotec, Clinoril, Indocin/SR, Lacrisert, Blocadren, Mefoxin, Dolobid, Flexeril, Pepcid, Prilosec, Primaxin, and more. One rep would not be able to cover products for OA and RA, muscle spasm, IOP, hospital-acquired infection, hypertension, CHF and more. Then we launched Prinivil, Mevacor, Tonocard, Splendil too. Not all became successful. No way could one rep call on cardiologists, rheumatologists, gastroenterologists, infectious disease specialists, primary care docs, orthopedic surgeons, ophthalmologists, physical medicine, etc. The share of voice came later on when we ended up having multiple reps promoting the same product to the same doctor. The early 1980's expansion was to have two reps promoting different products to different specialties and overlap in the primary care docs and still, with different products.

Smooze selling did not start until the 1990's.

Please check your fact.

 

[Anonymous]

In the early 80's Merck was the first company to start chasing the "share of voice" concept and went to multi-rep territories when the other companies had 1 rep for 1 territory. The strange thing is that Merck didnt need reps to sell their drugs at this time with Mevacor, Vasotec, etc. the absolute market leaders. They got greedy. they wanted more than market dominance, they wanted it all. So the reps that were there were joined by "Merckettes" with some drug knowledge and extra "bells and whistles". This was the end of ethical Detailing and the move to smooze-selling that prevails today. When you get laid-off by Merck, realize that they started it all. Merck has always been a market leader, even if it is leading the others off the cliff.

When Merck got into the "Merckettes" and smooze selling mode, there were one or two companies already expanded their sales forces. I think Pfizer was one. Merck could have gone crazy with its own expansion. There was also a mini-expansion in the late 1980's, again because we had too many new products. One group would have Vasotec and Prilosec while the other, Prinivil and Pepcid. Prilosec is p.o. only while Pepcid has tablet, IV and oral suspension which have different customer segments besides the common GI and primary care docs. You would not see the Prilosec rep calling on surgeons and anesthesiologists while the Pepcid rep, with the IV, would. One group had Mevacor while the other, Zocor. There was still no product overlap nor co-promotion with that expansion.

 

[Anonymous]

When Merck got into the "Merckettes" and smooze selling mode, there were one or two companies already expanded their sales forces. I think Pfizer was one. Merck could have gone crazy with its own expansion. There was also a mini-expansion in the late 1980's, again because we had too many new products. One group would have Vasotec and Prilosec while the other, Prinivil and Pepcid. Prilosec is p.o. only while Pepcid has tablet, IV and oral suspension which have different customer segments besides the common GI and primary care docs. You would not see the Prilosec rep calling on surgeons and anesthesiologists while the Pepcid rep, with the IV, would. One group had Mevacor while the other, Zocor. There was still no product overlap nor co-promotion with that expansion.

You are exactly right. Our real craziness came in the 90's.

 

[Anonymous]

Disagreed. Unless you were with Merck already in the early 80's and speaking from experience. The first expansion was truly needed. Within a few years we launched Timoptic, Vasotec, Clinoril, Indocin/SR, Lacrisert, Blocadren, Mefoxin, Dolobid, Flexeril, Pepcid, Prilosec, Primaxin, and more. One rep would not be able to cover products for OA and RA, muscle spasm, IOP, hospital-acquired infection, hypertension, CHF and more. Then we launched Prinivil, Mevacor, Tonocard, Splendil too. Not all became successful. No way could one rep call on cardiologists, rheumatologists, gastroenterologists, infectious disease specialists, primary care docs, orthopedic surgeons, ophthalmologists, physical medicine, etc. The share of voice came later on when we ended up having multiple reps promoting the same product to the same doctor. The early 1980's expansion was to have two reps promoting different products to different specialties and overlap in the primary care docs and still, with different products.

Smooze selling did not start until the 1990's.

Please check your fact.

Thanks for clarifying the facts. As some companies created differently named divisions, we (Merck) chose to keep all reps under the same name (MSD) but grouped with unique and separate product responsibilities. It worked well until the 90's absurdities hit with share of voice wars, innane metrics, and Merck's loss of corporate soul, culture, and vision. I'll never forget hearing our VP of Sales announce around 1997 as Lipitor was overtaking our statin franchise dominance that we must become a premier marketing organization "like Pfizer" only better. Hello VIOXX. The rest is history, like we have already or soon will become.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for clarifying the facts. As some companies created differently named divisions, we (Merck) chose to keep all reps under the same name (MSD) but grouped with unique and separate product responsibilities. It worked well until the 90's absurdities hit with share of voice wars, innane metrics, and Merck's loss of corporate soul, culture, and vision. I'll never forget hearing our VP of Sales announce around 1997 as Lipitor was overtaking our statin franchise dominance that we must become a premier marketing organization "like Pfizer" only better. Hello VIOXX. The rest is history, like we have already or soon will become.

Sadly I remember one day my buddy internist said three or four Merck reps called on him that day before I showed up. We have a great friendship and so we chatted. To him, without differentiation, they were all Merck reps. One time I counted we had 6 or 7 people calling one guy on Vioxx. Then we got really weird, claiming exclusive reprint or door opener for a rep with Vioxx. You have the pens and I have the flashlights. You have the Vioxx vs. Naproxen study and I have the Vioxx vs. Tylenol #3 study. I think we convinced ourselves we are completely different while the doc saw us as the "Vioxx Mob". We were fricking self delusional.

 

[Anonymous]

We also launched Noroxin, Primaxin, Heptavax-B, the Chicken Pox vaccine, too. The early expansions were truly necessary. Then there were launches of Proscar, Propecia, and a few more. I was promoting 7 or 8 products as one of the two reps in the territory.

 

[Anonymous]

Ok to smooze and be casual acquaintances with offices but a certain distance is needed to remain professional. I think its a big mistake to blur the line in a 1:1 account relationship. No best buds and managers need to know this.

 

[Anonymous]

You are dead wrong..the first real expansion above and beyone the # of products in the bag was with Pfizer, SKF, & Lilly! The real issue started when SKF launched Tagamet and put two reps in every territory selling tagamet & dyazide & Ancef! Lilly countered with an extra antibiotic rep in every territory because they were the antibiotic company! Pfizer did not have shit to sell and all of the sudden they got Feldene & nefidipine at the same time and added two reps per territory, because feldene was up against Oraflex (the third Lilly person) Clinoril and Motrin! Up to and several years past that time Merck only had two reps per territory MS & CID...if you're going to post here get your shit straight!

 

[Anonymous]

You are dead wrong..the first real expansion above and beyone the # of products in the bag was with Pfizer, SKF, & Lilly! The real issue started when SKF launched Tagamet and put two reps in every territory selling tagamet & dyazide & Ancef! Lilly countered with an extra antibiotic rep in every territory because they were the antibiotic company! Pfizer did not have shit to sell and all of the sudden they got Feldene & nefidipine at the same time and added two reps per territory, because feldene was up against Oraflex (the third Lilly person) Clinoril and Motrin! Up to and several years past that time Merck only had two reps per territory MS & CID...if you're going to post here get your shit straight!

Thanks for your historical accuracy. I knew we didn't start things, we just joined the fray at a later point in time (late 80's, right?).

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for your historical accuracy. I knew we didn't start things, we just joined the fray at a later point in time (late 80's, right?).

Next time get your fact straight.

 

[Anonymous]

I don't agree, I work for Pfizer, and although Merck may have started the trend with several reps calling on the same docs, Merck always kept it clinical. My company on the other hand has done more damage to this industry, and it seems to keep continuing. I remember all I heard from 1997-2001 was beat Merck by 2001, I got sick of hearing it we heard it so often.

 

[Anonymous]

I don't agree, I work for Pfizer, and although Merck may have started the trend with several reps calling on the same docs, Merck always kept it clinical. My company on the other hand has done more damage to this industry, and it seems to keep continuing. I remember all I heard from 1997-2001 was beat Merck by 2001, I got sick of hearing it we heard it so often.

And I remember all I heard from 1997 going forward was we needed to become just like Pfizer at Merck, only better. Thanks very much Mr. Gerry Gallivan. Gee, that didn't turn out so well for us still at Merck but glad to hear things turned out well for Mr. Gallivan. Then came VIOXX and all we needed to do was have more market share than CELEBREX, even if only the tiniest fraction more, that was all that mattered to Merck management at that time, since that meant we were beating Pfizer, doing it just like Pfizer, only better. Damn, we've had some real geniuses in Merck management in the last 15 years. Damned admirable bunch if you get my drift.

 

[Anonymous]

I don't agree, I work for Pfizer, and although Merck may have started the trend with several reps calling on the same docs, Merck always kept it clinical. My company on the other hand has done more damage to this industry, and it seems to keep continuing. I remember all I heard from 1997-2001 was beat Merck by 2001, I got sick of hearing it we heard it so often.

Yes, we heard then Merck was targeted by Pfizer as a way to motivate its sales force. It became a moot point when Pfizer acquired Parke Davis, Pharmacia and other companies and became the largest in the industry. I also read that once a Pfizer CEO made a comment to some students about, "...Merck discovers drugs but we market drugs..." As a Merck veteran I am always aware of how great our R&D was and how successful and brutal Pfizer markets its products. I also heard from friends at Pfizer that they have been living under more threats and pressure to perform or else decades before what the Merck reps are facing right now. In the past we comforted ourselves that our income would never match that at Pfizer but we took comfort in knowing we did not have that kind of pressure. I have personally seen two Pfizer reps over the years aging rapidly. The wear and tear on them are so noticeable. But they both live very upscale opulent lifestyles that would not survive without the kind of income with Pfizer.

 

[Anonymous]

Next time get your fact straight.

True enough...when you didn't have shit to sell and little science behind what you did have then you went to share voice...talk loud enough and anyone will write your crap! Pfizer was notorious...Procardia was first marketed with an angina indication and the reps were passing out stock bottles to every doc who didn't know angina from vagina but everyone was told its great for bp as well! Feldene was the arthritis killer (and a few patients as well) and Pfizer was told to sell these or we fold the tents! Pfizer had to buy everyone because they had no real research and most of the products came from someone else! Another company that was a marketing machine that did no research was Marion..they could market icewater to an eskimo and Dr. Kaufmann made sure that all of his folks knew it! They sold a worthless piece of crap called diltiazem to anyone who'd listen and every time they did a study they'd have to can it cause the results were so bad! It barely beat placebo in their own trials! Lederle was another great marketing machine with no research! I think SKF was the first company that had multiple reps in a territory selling the same drugs and they drove sales of Tagamet to the first $B. status in the industry!

 

[Anonymous]

True enough...when you didn't have shit to sell and little science behind what you did have then you went to share voice...talk loud enough and anyone will write your crap! Pfizer was notorious...Procardia was first marketed with an angina indication and the reps were passing out stock bottles to every doc who didn't know angina from vagina but everyone was told its great for bp as well! Feldene was the arthritis killer (and a few patients as well) and Pfizer was told to sell these or we fold the tents! Pfizer had to buy everyone because they had no real research and most of the products came from someone else! Another company that was a marketing machine that did no research was Marion..they could market icewater to an eskimo and Dr. Kaufmann made sure that all of his folks knew it! They sold a worthless piece of crap called diltiazem to anyone who'd listen and every time they did a study they'd have to can it cause the results were so bad! It barely beat placebo in their own trials! Lederle was another great marketing machine with no research! I think SKF was the first company that had multiple reps in a territory selling the same drugs and they drove sales of Tagamet to the first $B. status in the industry!

Marion did a wonderful job selling Cardizem. Docs were in love with that drug. Oraflex by Lilly exited the market even quicker with all the deaths. Feldene was, as you said, just as bad but the docs loved it. My first time meeting a SK rep relaxing in a pharmacy was an early indication why that company was absorbed into SKF and then SK Beechem or whatever now. The rep was so cocky that Tagamet was like gold that he ignored calls for samples, saying the docs had no choice. Oh boy they switched to Zantac en masse just to show those cocky SK reps. Guess you can count Syntex with Naprosyn as another one-drug wonder company that is now gone.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for your historical accuracy. I knew we didn't start things, we just joined the fray at a later point in time (late 80's, right?).

Whoever started this ridiculous shit, WOULD SOMEONE PLEASE STOP IT!!!
Get the idiots from marketing out of control! The idea that a rep can't maintain multiple products is ridiculous. Anyone who is willing to work can cover multiple specialties if they didn't have to see "high decile" people 3 times a month.

 

[Anonymous]

Ok to smooze and be casual acquaintances with offices but a certain distance is needed to remain professional. I think its a big mistake to blur the line in a 1:1 account relationship. No best buds and managers need to know this.

Please do not be so anal retentive. I am from the old school. I am not like you, the newer and more professional Merck reps. Our children (doc's and mine) went to the same school. We have the same hobbies. We know each other way beyond an hello, sign, and a hand shake at the office only. We run into each other on weekends making emergency runs to Home Depot all the time. Sorry if it does not sound very professional to you that I actually know my customers on a personal basis. We called it, "Personal Selling". Merck hired reps that live outside the territory the last decade or so. Those reps commute in and leave by 3 or 4 pm. They never know what are going on locally. May be that is why we as a company is faltering?

 

[Anonymous]

Whoever started this ridiculous shit, WOULD SOMEONE PLEASE STOP IT!!!
Get the idiots from marketing out of control! The idea that a rep can't maintain multiple products is ridiculous. Anyone who is willing to work can cover multiple specialties if they didn't have to see "high decile" people 3 times a month.

You may have a one-city block territory in a large city. But there are other reps that have territories larger than a few other states. A lot of wind shield time. I agree with you about putting a stop to micromanagement. Marketing serves a purpose by letting us know about the whole picture without having to be that rigid or intrusive.

You may be one of the Merck Wonder Star reps. Realistically, for those of us mere mortals, there can only be so many products in your bag before you cannot cover your customers adequately.

I was in a territory that have pockets of physicians may be 50-100 miles apart. Each pocket, in a city setting, is as many as a large clinic. You cannot go back and forth as easily to track down targeted customers. Imagine when they told us to increase the frequency from once to twice a month. I lived in my territory. Yet sometimes I would drive 2 hours to set up a hospital display at the far end.

At the next national meeting, talk to one of those reps in Alaska, North or South Dakota and see if you can realistically do it. May be you are a Star Genius that can talk sepsis with a ID doc, then anklosing spondylitis with a rheumatologist, then FEV1 with an allergist, then BMD with an endocrinologist, then elevated IOP with an ophthalmologist, back to hepatitis with another ID guy, diabetes with a diabetologist, PT, OT, diabetic educator, ORS, CD, clinical pharmacist, plus of course primary care customers with subspecialties.

May be Merck should fire us all and hire you?